need some help regarding old testiment law

[Zeena]

Uh, sorry, no comprehende...

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

 

[visionary]

God's kingdom is just as real as our present government... it just goes deeper.. right into the heart .. May He worketh in me in His fullness..

 

[Zeena]

The sinless perfection of flesh or mind is not presented anywhere in the text with the exception of God Himself IN Flesh..

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

I once quoted this verse for you and you replied saying it is pertaining to the hereafter. I hope that by bolding and underlining the word MORTAL this err is shown for what it is.

We are no longer MORTAL, but immortal when we are in Glory, even as the Apostle Paul testified here:

1 Corinthians 15:54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

In fact most believers can't even produce a MODICUM of truth regarding these matters of their evil present BECAUSE of evil present within.

NONE of us can produce the fruit of the Holy Spirit

We are not the producers of fruit, we are the bearers. Jesus is the vine, we are the branches, we receive our sustainance from Him.

Galations 5:22-24
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

John 15:4-5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

You have actively denied the ressurection power of the indwelling Holy Spirit in the past, will you now continue to do so in light of contrary evidence to your personal testimony?

Romans 9:14
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Romans 10:9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

 

[Zeena]

God's kingdom is just as real as our present government... it just goes deeper.. right into the heart .. May He worketh in me in His fullness..

Isaiah 57:15
For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

Hebrews 2:14
Since then the children are sharers in flesh and blood, he also himself in like manner partook of the same; that through death he might bring to nought him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Hebrews 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

 

[visionary]

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

I once quoted this verse for you and you replied saying it is pertaining to the hereafter. I hope that by bolding and underlining the word MORTAL this err is shown for what it is.

We are no longer MORTAL, but immortal when we are in Glory, even as the Apostle Paul testified here:

1 Corinthians 15:54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

NONE of us can produce the fruit of the Holy Spirit

We are not the producers of fruit, we are the bearers. Jesus is the vine, we are the branches, we receive our sustainance from Him.

Galations 5:22-24

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

John 15:4-5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
You have actively denied the ressurection power of the indwelling Holy Spirit in the past, will you now continue to do so in light of contrary evidence to your personal testimony?

Romans 10:9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Amen..

 

[Zeena]

Amen..

Praise God

Jesus Lives!

 

[Zeena]

Who ME? Naw...she say..I ain't got NO EVIL present. That's the OTHER people...(predicted in prior post)

The self-fulfilling prophecy is, in the beginning, a false definition of the situation evoking a new behaviour which makes the original false conception come 'true'. This specious validity of the self-fulfilling prophecy perpetuates a reign of error. For the prophet will cite the actual course of events as proof that he was right from the very beginning. -Robert King Merton

Hebrews 5:12-14
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Ephesians 4:11-
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil.
Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Great! Hope He drops a truth bomb in the temple thar real soon...a LAW BOMB...

Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Any O' you 'law abidin' folk wanna 'fess up' under THIS LAW?

tick...tock...

s

You have yet to testify according to the Truth that is Christ.
You have uttered a self-fulfilling [ergo FALSE] prophecy with the aim of converting men to your doctrine rather than Glorifying God in Christ, and you have been most rude and are held in contempt of court, for you are showing yourself to be self seeking, self justifying and self righteous with not a meek nor humble bone in your body.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

You say that man is accursed for sin in his body 'EVIL PRESENT, EVIL PRESENT ' you scream, yet Jesus came as a man and you hereby accuse God of harboring SIN!

[SIZE=+1]Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. [/SIZE]

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


​

Paul acknowledges his own depravity. The reason nothing good dwells within his flesh is that he is still committed to selfishness, not that his flesh is innately sinful. He recognizes that he is sold out to sin. And since his heart and mind are still committed (reluctantly now) to gratifying the lusts of the flesh, there is no motive within him strong enough to change his direction to perform what he knows he ought.

The expression to will is present with me is not to be understood in the literal sense of actually choosing to do something. Here will is used in the popular sense of expressing "I wish or I desire" to do good. Paul wills or desires to do good, but is still unwilling to pay the price of the self-denial that good requires. In verse 15 and 19 Paul uses the word "would" to express his wish to do the right and shun the wrong, and it is in this sense he uses will in verse 18. I may wish or desire to take a vacation on a far-a-way island, but I will not to do it because I have pressing responsibilities.​

Sinners often say that they cannot go to church or they cannot give up a bad habit, when they know they should. But what they mean is that they will not, because the leisure time, or the self-gratification derived from the bad habit is more important to them.​

In the last century an often-used term among theologians was the "incipiency of the will," which means that man has the ability to originate his own actions, apart from any outside or inside influence. He can reject or accept a good influence, or acquiesce to or refuse a bad influence. It is imperative that we understand the difference between a causation and an influence. One may not have a particular result. Under causation we are certain to have a particular result. Causation refers to the physical realm, but influence is in the realm of moral action.​

What is caused cannot be free, responsible or accountable, and what is free cannot be caused or it is not free. Since man has a mind capable of feelings and perceptions, he is free, accountable and responsible.​

It is truly amazing that we even have to use the term "free will," since it is redundant. By nature, the faculty of violation implies freedom. Men intuitively know their wills are free. They may deny it in theory, but not in practice. When denied philosophically, the bottom line must be men do not want to accept responsibility for their actions. If free will is removed, then there is no such thing as morality.​

Reason and conscience are arousing Paul to obey the law of God, but his flesh (his feelings, emotions and natural appetites) are influencing him not to obey. His wicked heart (purpose) is still committed to self-gratification, which prompts his will to choose to direct his mind to stay on course. He wishes to change, he desires to change, but the price of change is too great.​

We must understand that there was nothing within Paul's constitution causing him to sin. It remained his choice. Ultimately, even a slave chooses to obey his master. Granted, the alternatives are not attractive. It may mean a beating. It may even be at the risk of his life; but nevertheless, there remains the choice to disobey. Paul was a slave to sin (his own selfishness), but he was not yet willing to die to self.

Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.​

​

1 Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.


James 3:10-12 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. (11) Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? (12) Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

​

​

Romans 3:8

And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.​

 

[squint]

The self-fulfilling prophecy is, in the beginning, a false definition of the situation evoking a new behaviour which makes the original false conception come 'true'. This specious validity of the self-fulfilling prophecy perpetuates a reign of error. For the prophet will cite the actual course of events as proof that he was right from the very beginning. -Robert King Merton

I'll take the Apostle's statement as a fact, thank you very much.

sin not:
1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

I snipped your preamble for your forthcoming authority to deny the facts.

Now, IF you can engage on the FACTS of scripture as it pertains to EVIL PRESENT in relation to THE LAW, please feel free to demonstrate a 'sound mind.'

You have yet to testify according to the Truth that is Christ.
You have uttered a self-fulfilling [ergo FALSE] prophecy with the aim of converting men to your doctrine rather than Glorifying God in Christ, and you have been most rude and are held in contempt of court, for you are showing yourself to be self seeking, self justifying and self righteous with not a meek nor humble bone in your body.

I blame none of mankind for that working. So what's yer beef again? Oh, a MISS-read...

If you don't like the FACT that Paul put forth, there really is not much I can do about that.

You say that man is accursed for sin in his body 'EVIL PRESENT, EVIL PRESENT '

Never said that either. You're not going to get very far in any conversation claiming I said something that I didn't say.

You might consider other alternatives of UNDERSTANDING THE FACT...because what you MAY be reacting to is the FACT as it pertains to your own flesh...

Ah, factual food for thought is always an upset for the mind when it comes to theology.

you scream, yet Jesus came as a man and you hereby accuse God of harboring SIN!

Last time I checked fully God and fully Man in relation to Jesus was a rather orthodox position. Opening your pandora's box on that one could be interesting though. Funny how these types of things pop up when having a factual discussion, to try to sway off subject matter.

And you know, I have no issues posting scripture for prooftext. But what those say to you are more than likely an entirely different matter, because of EVIL PRESENT.

So, in the interests of TRUTH...I'm going to whisper a question to you and see if you can answer 'truthfully?'

Do you have 'evil present' as Paul did? (I won't expect you'd actually answer this directly)

Then tell me how 'lawful' that presence is or how that working relates to the OLD TESTAMENT LAW.

enjoy!

squint

 

[squint]

I once quoted this verse for you and you replied saying it is pertaining to the hereafter. I hope that by bolding and underlining the word MORTAL this err is shown for what it is.

We are no longer MORTAL, but immortal when we are in Glory, even as the Apostle Paul testified here:

And all of that has what to do with the fact of EVIL PRESENT within mankinds bodies and it's relationship to the LAW?

OH, that's right~! You keep trying to spin that I BLAME MANKIND...but of course that is not true. Evil present is OF THE DEVIL, not mankind...

See if you can plug that fact into your theological matrix.

You have actively denied the ressurection power of the indwelling Holy Spirit in the past,

OH? Did I? How and where please? Lying here doesn't cut it with me.

will you now continue to do so in light of contrary evidence to your personal testimony?

Continuing to do what how?

These matters are rather simple... there is no need to employ lies and strawmen with a very very simple statment of Paul having EVIL PRESENT...and it's even SIMPLER to understand how the LAW works with that fact in mind...

But THANK YOU for being an example of how believers do not like to stand up to that TRUTH...

Oh no...they will be 'legal' and 'grace' covered when it comes to the FACT of this particular matter, which only serves to bolster the fact the EVIL PRESENT does not have any particular liking for its' EXPOSURE...in people, particularly in 'believers.'

enjoy!

squint

 

[Zeena]

And all of that has what to do with the fact of EVIL PRESENT within mankinds bodies and it's relationship to the LAW?

OH, that's right~! You keep trying to spin that I BLAME MANKIND...but of course that is not true. Evil present is OF THE DEVIL, not mankind...

That's just it, you blame sin, rather than yourSELF for sinning!

NO WONDER you are not justified! For what good is a Saviour to SAVE you from your SINS, if you don't have any?!!?

 

[squint]

That's just it, you blame sin, rather than yourSELF for sinning!

Uh, no again Zzzeena...it is THE DEVIL who is intimately connected to EVERY SIN per 1 John 3:8...even yours. Do you think you can make THE DEVIL 'responsible?' Good luck with that!

NO WONDER you are not justified! For what good is a Saviour to SAVE you from your SINS, if you don't have any?!!?

I never said that the 'sins' that transpire in my own mind and body are 'not mine' as they certainly DO transpire in MY body and mind. That still does not make that working 'me' when there is OBVIOUSLY another party that is NOT ME involved.

You are welcome to be your own EVIL PRESENT, which of course makes you EVIL...but I will not believe that in your behalf as Gods child, K?

The fact remains that Paul had EVIL PRESENT. So, was Paul EVIL?

enjoy!

squint

 

[Zeena]

Uh, no again Zzzeena...it is THE DEVIL who is intimately connected to EVERY SIN per 1 John 3:8...even yours. Do you think you can make THE DEVIL 'responsible?' Good luck with that!



I never said that the 'sins' that transpire in my own mind and body are 'not mine' as they certainly DO transpire in MY body and mind. That still does not make that working 'me' when there is OBVIOUSLY another party that is NOT ME involved.

Just two verse after your expressly stated statement of 'the devil made me do it', we find this;

1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

You are welcome to be your own EVIL PRESENT, which of course makes you EVIL...but I will not believe that in your behalf as Gods child, K?

Is the human being of such a double nature that a part of him may be holy, and a part commit sin?

James 4:8-10
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Is not the action of the free will an element of every moral act, and can the will at one and the same time sin and abstain from sin?

Deuteronomy 30:18-20
I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Ezekiel 18:20:2-
What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right, And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman, And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment; He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man, Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.
If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things, And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife, Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination, Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.
Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like, That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife, Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment, That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.
As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.
Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live. The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the LORD is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

The fact remains that Paul had EVIL PRESENT. So, was Paul EVIL?

Saint Paul was evil at one time, but not when he wrote the Scripture, not after the Lord met him and he repented and was made regenerate.

He was in fact portraying sinful people, who were hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

Saint Paul DID turn to Christ, he WAS washed, he WAS cleansed, he WAS purified, he WAS sanctified and he WAS infilled with the Holy Spirit, being made HOLY unto the Lord by the Name of Jesus.

1 John 3:5-10
And ye know that he was manifested to take away sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him.
My little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous: he that doeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. To this end was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

2 Timothy 3:8
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

 

[squint]

Just two verse after your expressly stated statement of 'the devil made me do it', we find this;

Zeena, there is certainly no use in LYING about what I said.

You are free to read 1 John 3:8

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

and you are also free to try and find ANY way you please to DISSCONNECT sin from the devil. That will not change the FACT that the DEVIL is linked right there in 1 John 3:8 to EVERY SIN.

The fact that ALL PEOPLE including believers CONTINUE to SIN means that THE DEVIL is connected to those sins.

You are free to blame Gods children any way you please. I will see that working as a working of THE DEVIL.

Is the human being of such a double nature that a part of him may be holy, and a part commit sin?

Who said that SIN isn't the DEVIL entirely on his own? Even acting in RESISTANCE to Gods Words just as the scriptures state?

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Is not the action of the free will an element of every moral act, and can the will at one and the same time sin and abstain from sin?

If we had some way to measure that another person did not SIN VIA THOUGHTS, then you could make a case for 'abstinance' from sinning exercising that supposed freewill. Freewill should such a thing exist (I don't buy that story) certainly didn't eradicte the EVIL PRESENT from Paul. And I don't believe it eradictes or changes EVIL PRESENT with any of mankind either. IF that was the case (EVIL PRESENT) with Paul, then it is entirely likely to be the case with any of us as well.

I don't see your supposed 'freewill' having any sway over dissconnecting SIN from the DEVIL or eradicating EVIL PRESENT.

Many people cite the classic Deut. "chose life" in defense of freewill. That still doesn't mean EVIL PRESENT makes that 'choice.'

For he was not saved when he wrote that, but was in fact portraying the sinful nation of Israel, who were hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

Paul was not saved when he wrote Romans 7? lol w/that angle. heh heh heh

But Saint Paul DID turn to Christ, he WAS washed, he WAS cleansed, he was purified, he WAS sanctified and he WAS infilled witht the Holy Spirit, being made HOLY unto the Lord by the Name of Jesus.

That was fully true for Paul as Gods child. It was not true for the EVIL PRESENT with Paul. Paul NEVER ONCE claimed sinless flesh or mind. We cannot say 'we have no sin' and be IN TRUTH.

I consider it highly ironic that in order to prove ourselves TRUTHFUL we should have to admit the PRESENCE OF A LIAR with us. But the fact that many people can't come to grips with this reality ONLY MEANS that the LIAR just can't tell THE TRUTH...it's that simple.

The math is pretty easy on these matters Zeena.

Every sin is connected to the DEVIL.

The POWER of SIN comes from interactions with THE LAW or GODS WORDS in general.

And all people have sin, and thusly EVIL PRESENT, that sin is, OF THE DEVIL.

I don't see any way around the math. Might not like the conclusions, but on a factual basis it's pretty solid. EVIL present was never lawfull, is never lawfull and never will be lawful regardless of what people think about it.

enjoy!

squint

 

[Zeena]

Who said that SIN isn't the DEVIL entirely on his own? Even acting in RESISTANCE to Gods Words just as the scriptures state?

John 8:42-49
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me.

And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoso keepeth his word, in him verily hath the love of God been perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him: he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked.

Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. But because I say the truth, ye believe me not.
Which of you convicteth me of sin? If I say truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. The Jews answered and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a demon? Jesus answered, I have not a demon; but I honor my Father, and ye dishonor me.

 

[squint]

John 8:42-49

I don't disagree with ANY scripture Zeena. Is there some relevant point or two in our conversation you are tying to make by quoting that stretch?

 

[Zeena]

The fact that ALL PEOPLE including believers CONTINUE to SIN means that THE DEVIL is connected to those sins.

Romans 6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Yea, that's a question mark at the end..
What's the answer?

You are free to blame Gods children any way you please. I will see that working as a working of THE DEVIL.

Matthew 10:38
And he that doth not take his cross and follow after me, is not worthy of me.

Luke 14:27
And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

 

[squint]

Romans 6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Yea, that's a question mark at the end..
What's the answer?

Of course not. I don't blame ANY of mankind for sin, when ALL of same is connected to the devil/evil present. It is more than likely that the vessel of DIShonor in the lump of everyone IS the sinner and the vessel of HONOR isn't.

Vessels of dishonor do what 'they' do.

Vessels of honor do what 'they' do.

Both are in the LUMP called 'me' by Paul in Romans 9:19-22 and in 'believers' in 2 Tim. 2:20-21.

Vessels of honor CAN speak the Truth of the fact that they have EVIL PRESENT because it's TRUE.

Vessels of dishonor are not allowed to SPEAK the TRUTH of THAT FACT because it is TRUE and 'they' can't TELL THE TRUTH or LIVE with the facts that TRUTH brings.

enjoy!

squint

 

[Zeena]

I don't see your supposed 'freewill' having any sway over dissconnecting SIN from the DEVIL or eradicating EVIL PRESENT.

1 Corinthians 9:27
but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.

Hebrews 6:8
but if it beareth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned.

 

[squint]

1 Corinthians 9:27
but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.

Hebrews 6:8
but if it beareth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned.

I don't disagree with any scripture Zeena. Is there a point or two that is relevant to our conversation that you'd like to make regarding those quotes?

 

[Zeena]

That was fully true for Paul as Gods child. It was not true for the EVIL PRESENT with Paul. Paul NEVER ONCE claimed sinless flesh or mind. We cannot say 'we have no sin' and be IN TRUTH.

• 1. God desires the salvation of all of humanity.
• 2. But he, in fact, has chosen to save only a part of humanity.
• 3. God is consistent.

The variable that explains the difference between the all that God desires to save and the some he decides to save must lie outside of God or he would be inconsistent and could not be God. This fact is as certain as the three irrefutable facts stated above are certain. God, who is consistent, cannot desire the salvation of all of humanity and allow any to be lost unless the reason for this lies outside of his choice and his control. If the choice lies with God alone, he most certainly will save all because he desires the salvation of all. However, the fact is God does not save all because he cannot save all, or even some, unless they of their own free will submit to the conditions he has laid down in his Word.

Therefore, the doctrine of original sin with its teaching that man is unable to repent of sin and believe the Gospel because of natural depravity is false. For it would make God the only variable in the salvation of man and therefore, make him inconsistent with himself desiring to save all, while at the same time desiring not to save all; regenerating and enabling some to believe and repent, while at the same time, contrary to his will, leaving others in their state of depravity and inability to be lost. If the doctrine of original sin were true, the salvation of all men would depend solely upon the arbitrary choice of God, and God would be imperfect and inconsistent, desiring the salvation of all mankind but arbitrarily choosing to damn myriads of the souls he did not will should perish.

The variable is and must be in man. And if the variable is in man, then man must be able to respond to God, which means that men cannot be born with a nature that makes it impossible for them to repent and believe the Gospel. Any interpretation of the Bible which puts the variable in God alone is false. For if God were the only variable in man's salvation, then God, who desires the salvation of all men, would certainly save all men!

The fact that God desires to save all but saves only some demonstrates that the variable for the salvation of men resides in the free choice of man and not in some arbitrary election of God. Man, therefore, is not born with a natural inability to obey God. He is not and cannot be born a sinner. We see, then, that the doctrine of original sin and all its sister doctrines the doctrine of natural inability to obey God, the doctrine of the need of a physical regeneration by God before sinners can believe and repent, and the doctrine of an arbitrary election and reprobation by God are all proven to be false doctrines by the fact that God desires the salvation of all, but only saves some.

Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God. I John 4:2, 3

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. II John 7
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us. John 1:14

A.T. Overstreet

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