Need Some Help From the Old-Timers

[madison1101]

I am in a spot that seems to be getting deeper and deeper with time. I lack internal motivation to make my program successful, and get better emotionally, spiritually, or physically.

When I was married, my motivation was to save my marriage. After my ex left, my motivation was to have my children respect me. When I relapsed, in 2007, I lost all of my motivation. I have come to realize that my daughter will never be able to truly respect me. Not because of the alcohol, but because of who I am as a person. My sons, well, they are terrific and love and accept me for who I am. Daughter is a different story.

So, I have been seeking some sort of help in this area in all sorts of inside out ways, and not finding any motivation within my being. I can get better for my therapist's approval, but he won't enable my that way. He insists I get better for me.

Problem is, deep down inside, where it really is important, I do not care.

Program says, "fake it till you make it." Well, I can't anymore. I have just over 60 days of sobriety, and I almost threw that away on Saturday. I also have been dealing with very self-destructive, almost suicidal, urges. (NOT suicidal though.)

I would have hoped that my faith in the Lord would help me in this, because I have been having my devotions pretty faithfully for weeks now. It just ain't happening.

So, you old-timers in AA, please tell me how to find internal motivation. I am desperate for help.

Trish

 

[BobW188]

Before World War Two, Victor Frankl was a psychotherapist in Vienna, leading a very comfortable life, with a wife and at least two kids. He was also Jewish; and with his family was rounded up by the SS and sent to Auschwitz. The first half of his book Man's Search for Meaning deals with his experiences there, including the death of so many who did not go to the gas chambers or otherwise get killed by the Germans. He attributed his own survival largely to one thing: he would visualize himself, after the war and his freedom, at a podium, speaking to audiences about what he was now going through.
When liberation came, though he learned his wife and kids had gone to the gas chambers, he proceeded to do exactly that.
As time went on and as he spoke to more and more audiences, it came to him that those who had survived as he had had one thing in common: like him, they'd had a reason. It was those who could not see, in their mind's eye, beyond the machine gun towers and the barbed wire who had died in droves, though they'd been treated no worse and suffered no worse than Frankl and the others who lived. Those who could find a meaning for their lives lived!
I don't have his book at hand and thus can't quote precisely; but the most important line in it reads, roughly, "Don't ask what meaning life has for you; ask what meaning you have for life!

Now, "Easy Does It; But Do It." Nobody can do it for you; but your sponsor, other AAs, friends, your sons can give you some ideas and directions. Hopefully, so can your therapist; but it sounds like he has more transference issues than you do. And get it through your head: you can lead a happy, productive life with or without your daughter's respect.

C. S. Lewis's devil Screwtape, in one of his letters to junior tempter Wormwood, warns him "never is our cause in more danger than when a man looks out at a universe from which all trace of God seems to have disappeared; and, nonetheless, obeys." Why you are on this awful road He knows, I don't; but at its end, you will like yourself.

 

[madison1101]

Before World War Two, Victor Frankl was a psychotherapist in Vienna, leading a very comfortable life, with a wife and at least two kids. He was also Jewish; and with his family was rounded up by the SS and sent to Auschwitz. The first half of his book Man's Search for Meaning deals with his experiences there, including the death of so many who did not go to the gas chambers or otherwise get killed by the Germans. He attributed his own survival largely to one thing: he would visualize himself, after the war and his freedom, at a podium, speaking to audiences about what he was now going through.
When liberation came, though he learned his wife and kids had gone to the gas chambers, he proceeded to do exactly that.
As time went on and as he spoke to more and more audiences, it came to him that those who had survived as he had had one thing in common: like him, they'd had a reason. It was those who could not see, in their mind's eye, beyond the machine gun towers and the barbed wire who had died in droves, though they'd been treated no worse and suffered no worse than Frankl and the others who lived. Those who could find a meaning for their lives lived!
I don't have his book at hand and thus can't quote precisely; but the most important line in it reads, roughly, "Don't ask what meaning life has for you; ask what meaning you have for life!

Now, "Easy Does It; But Do It." Nobody can do it for you; but your sponsor, other AAs, friends, your sons can give you some ideas and directions. Hopefully, so can your therapist; but it sounds like he has more transference issues than you do. And get it through your head: you can lead a happy, productive life with or without your daughter's respect.

C. S. Lewis's devil Screwtape, in one of his letters to junior tempter Wormwood, warns him "never is our cause in more danger than when a man looks out at a universe from which all trace of God seems to have disappeared; and, nonetheless, obeys." Why you are on this awful road He knows, I don't; but at its end, you will like yourself.

Wow, I read Frankl's book, years ago before grad school. I can't put my hands on it just now, but have it and will reread the first half again.

The song, "Trust and Obey" comes to mind right now. Hopefully, someday, I will find that internal motivation. Right now, I must just trust and obey.

Don't be too hard on my therapist. I have so many dependency needs that he is gently trying to break me of. I have basically dumped all of my borderline Daddy abandonment crap onto him, and he is trying so hard to not enable me into being so dependent on him, and getting me to stand on my own, albeit wobbly, sober two feet. He also has been the recipient of some pretty rough borderline transference, which I hate doing in hindsight.

Thanks for the reminder about Frankl. That is a powerful book.

Trish

 

[hotsauce5000]

something that has helped me enormously is this vitamin that is meant to reduce stress. it has helped me personally to not worry about things so much and just handle them.
i would recommend that you get your hands on some and try them the whole bottle through, then decide if they are for you. i havent had a beer in 11 months tommorrow. but when i want one, these vitamins calm me down and i get relaxed. its not like a high or a buzz, but i can surely feel their effect.

brand name is natures solution, and exact type is NUTRICALM.
works for me.
you can find them online.

i hope this may help you as well.

 

[madison1101]

As I thought about what Bob said yesterday, I realized that I know what I must do. It will not sit well with my therapist, but I am going to try it for a few months and see what happens.

Last year, as the school year started, I began attending a women's Bible study at my church. When I went into treatment, IOP three nights a week, I had to drop out of the study, temporarily, so I thought. due to relapsing and changing treatment facilities, I ended up doing IOP twice and never returned to the Bible study. In addition, my church began an outreach ministry teaching English as a second language, which I believe will begin again. I could not participate in that ministry either, due to being in treatment.

I really believe I am to be involved in these two ministries. One for my edification and fellowship. The other for outreach and service. I can't do either if I am still in treatment. Also, both of these will help me in giving me some internal motivation to get better and stay sober.

Does this make any sense, or am I BSing myself, and setting myself up for trouble?

Trish

 

[BobW188]

Simple question for you to answer. Simple to state, that is.

Which course of action puts your sobriety at greater risk?

This is assuming you can't follow both: therapy one or some evenings, the other activities on others. In that case, the question becomes what effect pursuing all of this along with your regular dayside, AA and family commitiments will have on your ability to stay sober.

My own thought is that your problem is not primarily one of motivation. Fact is, we all now and then hit walls like this at work, at diets, in exercise ... at you name it, including at staying sober. You stated the problem yourself, and I paraphrase: you don't want to get better for you. That, more than motivation, is why I brought up Frankl. What is it you'd like to see come out of these years of struggle? When it's all over, what kind of person do you want Trish to have become?

Right now, (and no doubt especially as I don't have tro walk it,) I'm inclined to say you should take whichever road is harder.

Oh, by the way, another question to ask yourself: What am I learning in this motivation crisis?

Don't expect the answers to these questions to come easily; but I think that just asking them sometimes sort-of points you in a certain direction.

 

[madison1101]

Simple question for you to answer. Simple to state, that is.

Which course of action puts your sobriety at greater risk?

This is assuming you can't follow both: therapy one or some evenings, the other activities on others. In that case, the question becomes what effect pursuing all of this along with your regular dayside, AA and family commitiments will have on your ability to stay sober.

My own thought is that your problem is not primarily one of motivation. Fact is, we all now and then hit walls like this at work, at diets, in exercise ... at you name it, including at staying sober. You stated the problem yourself, and I paraphrase: you don't want to get better for you. That, more than motivation, is why I brought up Frankl. What is it you'd like to see come out of these years of struggle? When it's all over, what kind of person do you want Trish to have become?

Right now, (and no doubt especially as I don't have tro walk it,) I'm inclined to say you should take whichever road is harder.

Oh, by the way, another question to ask yourself: What am I learning in this motivation crisis?

Don't expect the answers to these questions to come easily; but I think that just asking them sometimes sort-of points you in a certain direction.

Thanks for the insights and thought provoking questions, Bob. I am beginning to get my head out of my butt, and see things more clearly. Thank God I did not drink over this mess, and I am able to get some clarity sooner than later.

I am hopeful that I am not fooling myself about leaving treatment in September. Being involved in my church is a real burden on my heart right now. I also know what my time constraints are in the evenings during the school year, as I also do a lot of school work/homework at home. Plus, the Bible study has about 30 minutes of homework a day in it.

What type of person do I want to be? When my brothers passed away, I had the opportunity to think about the legacy I would leave for my kids and grandkids. I want to be remembered as a woman of faith, honor and dignity. That can't happen if I die due to alcoholism.

As for what lesson I am learning in all of this, I have not been able to pinpoint a specific lesson, but am getting inklings of a few things about myself and others in all of this.

Trish

 

[BobW188]

Sounds like Disciple Bible Study. A good course if you have a good instructor. Our sessions could be a lot like a meeting as we kicked our problems around near the end of a class; and we observed the same kind of confidentiality outside of it.

Now, two more suggestions. You might be aware I'm not soliciting replies, though I'll be glad to read and respond.

First, visualize yourself at the end of this road. Do a little mental acting, in your starring role as the now-faithful, honorable and dignified Trish. It's not that the real end result will be precisely the same; but the clearer you can see where you want to go the more precisely you can set a course for it - and correct for all those deviations that the storms and turbulence of life make necessary.

Second - and do this gently and nonjudgementally, ask why you don't want these things. After all, part of you doesn't. Let's face it, each of the three practiced with any consistency can be, or at least seem to be, a burdensome pain in the butt. (We all want to be fit - until we realize it really means regular exercise. We all want to lose weight - until the cravings hit. I'd quit smoking in a minute - until I remember how those five days without a cigarette were worse than (at that time) four years without a drink.)

Finally, be aware that I know I speak for all of the regulars here when I tell you we'd say you are farther along the road to all three than you are giving yourself credit for. In fact, they are probably what's keeping you in this fight. Washington (who, along with Robert E. Lee, is probably the highest embodiment of them in US history), spent the better part of six years getting whupped by the British; but then there was Yorktown.

 

[madison1101]

Sounds like Disciple Bible Study. A good course if you have a good instructor. Our sessions could be a lot like a meeting as we kicked our problems around near the end of a class; and we observed the same kind of confidentiality outside of it.

Now, two more suggestions. You might be aware I'm not soliciting replies, though I'll be glad to read and respond.

First, visualize yourself at the end of this road. Do a little mental acting, in your starring role as the now-faithful, honorable and dignified Trish. It's not that the real end result will be precisely the same; but the clearer you can see where you want to go the more precisely you can set a course for it - and correct for all those deviations that the storms and turbulence of life make necessary.

Second - and do this gently and nonjudgementally, ask why you don't want these things. After all, part of you doesn't. Let's face it, each of the three practiced with any consistency can be, or at least seem to be, a burdensome pain in the butt. (We all want to be fit - until we realize it really means regular exercise. We all want to lose weight - until the cravings hit. I'd quit smoking in a minute - until I remember how those five days without a cigarette were worse than (at that time) four years without a drink.)

Finally, be aware that I know I speak for all of the regulars here when I tell you we'd say you are farther along the road to all three than you are giving yourself credit for. In fact, they are probably what's keeping you in this fight. Washington (who, along with Robert E. Lee, is probably the highest embodiment of them in US history), spent the better part of six years getting whupped by the British; but then there was Yorktown.

Thanks again, Bob. You ask good questions and make me think. I appreciate that. I hope you are sponsoring people in AA. I bet you make a good sponsor.

I do realize that I am farther along in some respects than I give myself credit. When I first started in AA, I heard a wise old-timer say, "Don't compare yourself to me. Compare yourself to yourself." When I look back on my beginnings of recovery, I see a lot of growth.

The Bible study I will be involved in is by Beth Moore. She is an awesome writer and teacher. It includes videos, and intense study, as well as discussion. This year we will study "Esther." I find that book to be empowering for women.

Oh, I broke a toe on Friday. I was walking my pooch, and he stopped in front of me, and I tripped over him, slamming my toes into his hind leg. I needed some meds, and my family doc was concerned because I cannot take NSAIDS, so we agreed on Ultram. I had success with it when I broke my foot, and did not abuse it, so he gave me a few days worth. It is no worse than the broken foot, and it is on my left foot this time, so I am more mobile. With my right foot broken, I could not drive. I can at least drive with this.

Thanks again for your support, encouragement and exhortations.

Trish

 

[BlessEwe]

I am not a old timer, but will a newly arrived home from Alaska person due..

Beth Moore "Esther" sounds excellent. The bible study I go to just started Esther too, not sure if it is Beth Moore though. Just like Bob said, you may be in a rut doing the same o same o, and this study will get the spiritual waters flowing.
This ministry you are talking about sounds wonderful, you are certainly a helper and your past of education as well as what you personally have gone through may be what God is putting in your path to do.

For me motivation to remain sober comes from the Hope Christ puts in my life, I no longer have to be that Jekyll and Hyde anymore. We are waking up and walking the life Christ intended for us.
Enjoying the freedom, no longer in the chains of bondage.
With this walk comes the beauty of being the mother, wife, person ( not perfect but Work in Progress)

Perhaps some people will never find total respect from things of our past, but with our sobriety and personal christian walk, our light will shine and they will notice. If they can't, well its a serenity prayer situation.

I stopped in Washington to show my boys where we put my mothers ashes on the beach, 35 years ago she died Aug 16 1976. I will never know what happened to her, or how she died. Carried it too long, so with this I had to put it in Gods hands to let it go... Really what else can be done in some cases. It feels good to finally find peace in that.

Trish..."You've come along way baby" I am excited to see where God is leading you!