Need Advice

[Nicoleb07]

Hi there,

I am new to this but need advice. Someone in our congregation received this letter from our preacher. The person left church 5-10 minutes early to attend her grandsons football game. Anyway our preacher was apparently very upset about this and chose to send her a letter instead of briefly discussing it with her. I fee like the letter was rude and angry sounding and it could have been handled better. The person that received this letter does a lot for our small congregation of approximately 20-30 people so I'm in shock that our preacher wouldn't just ask her about why she left early instead of writing her this letter. I am trying to see both sides but how does he know she wasn't ill and needed to leave? I believe this letter is judgmental and am not liking the negativity that's been happening in our church. I have small children in our church and have occasionally had to get up and leave, now I'm worried I'll be considered rude and disrespectful if I have to quietly excuse myself. I am taking the names out of this but here is the letter;

I really don't care when you get up and leave church! I've been told by several members of the church that it is rude and disrespectful for people to get up and leave before church is over! I agree, unless someone tells me before church that they have to leave early.

Others that leave early let me know that they will be leaving for a specific reason!

I would appreciate some respect in the future, if you think something is more important that one hour of worship. When your disrespect and rudeness affects others attending church you are disrespecting the sanctity of God!

No one is entitled to just get up and leave church!

Sincerely,
Pastor

 

[Endeavourer]

Ugh.

That pastor seems to have a lot of maturing and growing to do. Did he really use all of those exclamation points?

I would seriously consider a larger question of what fruits of the spirit does this person show otherwise because this letter indicates either an enormously immature spiritual condition or no spiritual condition.

I get that we all are fallible and even the person with the most grace will have a doozy once in a while, but to have premeditated his statement so far as to write it out - and still send a missive with this level of immaturity and pride is troubling.

 

[Nicoleb07]

Yes, he really did use the exclamation points. I typed it exactly as he wrote it unfortunately. I thought I was somewhat biased because the person he wrote it to is my aunt who is the sweetest lady but it seemed very rude to me. He tried emailing it to her and when it didn't go through he then printed off the email and mailed it to her. He had multiple times to rethink what he was doing.

 

[Endeavourer]

I think the letter and the whole idea of leaving church for a football game are two separate issues.

Personally, I observe more of a 'hallowed' Lords day than most modern Christians do, so I wouldn't be attending football games on Sunday.

But then I have left church during the last song to attend my daughter's high school graduation - which, sadly is on a Sunday. However, I couldn't be such a purist as to cause her sadness and consternation that her mother wouldn't attend her graduation, so I feel that a balance of mercy/justice is more like Christ than a severe never/ever!! keeping of this particular conviction I have.

I would prefer not to judge this woman's convictions to go to the football game since I don't know her situation, whether this is actually ministering to her grandson in a relationship restoration, etc etc. Situations are not always what they appear to be.

Edited to add: Or, maybe she feels football is perfectly fine on Sundays - in that case, it's a matter of conscience between her and her Lord. It seems that the pastor was more upset about leaving early than football, though.

 

[Endeavourer]

Yes, he really did use the exclamation points. I typed it exactly as he wrote it unfortunately. I thought I was somewhat biased because the person he wrote it to is my aunt who is the sweetest lady but it seemed very rude to me. He tried emailing it to her and when it didn't go through he then printed off the email and mailed it to her. He had multiple times to rethink what he was doing.

Oh boy.

Does he generally manifest controlling, demanding or abusive behavior? Or, was this a one-off?

 

[RaymondG]

I see no fault in the member who left or the pastor who wrote the letter. They are both free to do what they want with what is theirs. The church is run by the pastor and he is free to run it how he pleases and if the membership has issue, they are free to join another organization.....Such is the case with Gym memberships and restaurants.....There are too many out there to get stressed out over one of them. And like other organizations, when the CEO see that they are losing members, they revise the business plan.

 

[Endeavourer]

Very small congregations like that can become controlling and almost cult-like without our realizing it. This is especially true when the church's authority is centralized with the pastor.

The desire to conform when in such a small, exclusive group can easily grow out of proportion before we realize it. We eventually concede our own autonomous thinking to the group, but it usually happens similar to the proverbial frog boil where the frog doesn't notice the gradual temperature change.

A rule of thumb that I always observe after going through something similar is to never concede your conscience to another person (or organization).

Stand fast in the liberty you have as a born again believer (per Romans, Galatians, etc) and never cede that to another human being.

 

[Nicoleb07]

I appreciate your opinion RaymondG and agree with you that everyone is free to do what they want. However, he didn't not give her that same respect. He basically scolded her for leaving a few minutes early then sent a rudely written letter instead of having a brief discussion with her on what he considered acceptable. We live in a town of less than 1,000 people so I very much disagree with you that there are many options out there. I assure you there is not for us. Our family has been attending this church for over 100 years so it really isn't something I take lightly when I'm now considering finding a new church.

 

[Endeavourer]

I see no fault in the .... the pastor who wrote the letter.

You thought the letter worked out the fruits of his salvation?

I only saw spiritual immaturity and pride.

 

[Endeavourer]

We live in a town of less than 1,000 people so I very much disagree with you that there are many options out there. I assure you there is not for us. Our family has been attending this church for over 100 years so it really isn't something I take lightly when I'm now considering finding a new church.

I lived in a nearly identical situation, including the hundred year heritage. Eventually I realized I had given them almost entire control of my liberty in Christ due to pressures of traditions and being in a small group.

Undergoing that realization and the journey out of it gave me a few gray hairs.

 

[Nicoleb07]

Oh boy.

Does he generally manifest controlling, demanding or abusive behavior? Or, was this a one-off?

I have had a hard time going to church lately because the sermons are generally negative......

 

[Nicoleb07]

I think the letter and the whole idea of leaving church for a football game are two separate issues.

Personally, I observe more of a 'hallowed' Lords day than most modern Christians do, so I wouldn't be attending football games on Sunday.

But then I have left church during the last song to attend my daughter's high school graduation - which, sadly is on a Sunday. However, I couldn't be such a purist as to cause her sadness and consternation that her mother wouldn't attend her graduation, so I feel that a balance of mercy/justice is more like Christ than a severe never/ever!! keeping of this particular conviction I have.

I would prefer not to judge this woman's convictions to go to the football game since I don't know her situation, whether this is actually ministering to her grandson in a relationship restoration, etc etc. Situations are not always what they appear to be.

Edited to add: Or, maybe she feels football is perfectly fine on Sundays - in that case, it's a matter of conscience between her and her Lord. It seems that the pastor was more upset about leaving early than football, though.

I agree. I'm not as upset that he had a problem with her leaving but I wish he wouldn't have wrote such a rudely written letter. We literally have 20-30 members that attend, he could have easily talked to her in person and said I wish you would have told me you'd be leaving early. She did not want to let her grandson down by not going to the game so she thought she was doing the best thing by still attending church and the game.

 

[All4Christ]

Did you discuss your concerns with your pastor? Sometimes, we need to have grace for other people - including those in leadership - and offer forgiveness even when they do not ask for it. Often, that means asking God to help give you the grace to forgive.

Along with that, speaking to the pastor in a way that genuinely expresses why it was hurtful will be helpful both for your relationship with your church - and for the other church member’s sake as well. Honestly, it would be best to come from the person who received the letter.

Also, be cautious when it comes to sharing this with others, especially in your congregation, as it can turn into gossip.

Scripture is clear on how to handle conflict in the church (Matthew 18). First, we are to privately address the problem with the person who caused the offense. If that doesn’t work, we are to privately join together with two or three believers to address the offender together. If that still doesn’t work, you work up the chain.

Remember that love covers a multitude of offense (1 Peter 4). We are called to love one another no matter what they do to us.

 

[RaymondG]

I appreciate your opinion RaymondG and agree with you that everyone is free to do what they want. However, he didn't not give her that same respect. He basically scolded her for leaving a few minutes early then sent a rudely written letter instead of having a brief discussion with her on what he considered acceptable. We live in a town of less than 1,000 people so I very much disagree with you that there are many options out there. I assure you there is not for us. Our family has been attending this church for over 100 years so it really isn't something I take lightly when I'm now considering finding a new church.

It seems that the same things you are stating that the Pastor did to the member, you are now doing to the Pastor. Would it have been better to go to him about this before getting a chance to dwell on it internally until your feelings about it got worse? But, just like with the pastor, I find no fault it you either. You are doing what you feel is right, and handling the situation the best way you know how. And in the future you will become better and better at it.

You see your small town with small membership and small options. But God can raise up stones to worship him. To you it may seem impossible to find a better place, but to God, nothing is impossible. But keep in mind, that this better place, could be just where you are. Trials come to make us stronger...and you will continue to encounter the same problems where ever you go until you overcome them and raise yourself above the problems.

 

[RaymondG]

You thought the letter worked out the fruits of his salvation?

I only saw spiritual immaturity and pride.

I try not to concern myself with the Salvational status or others. I do, however, see this as a growth opportunity for the Poster. When she overcomes this situation, no one will be able to write another letter that can move her to anger. She will learn that only she has the power to make herself anger. and as she becomes more filled with Light.....she will be able to see more light in others and the darkness will elude her.

 

[Endeavourer]

I try not to concern myself with the Salvational status or others.

I agree with this 100% for everyone except when evaluating whether to bring someone into a close relationship where their salvation (or not) will affect you, such as:
-whether or not you want to place yourself under some one else's teaching,
-whether you want to marry someone
- etc.

I should have made that clearer in my post.

In this case, she is placing herself under his pastoring and teaching. An unsaved pastor can wreak a lot of damage and may have more of a tendency to abuse his flock than a saved pastor.

His letter sounded abusive, immature and controlling. It did not sound like someone with the fruits of grace in his heart. However, all of us, even those with the most grace and maturity, can sometimes pull a zinger, so discerning whether it was a one time whoops or a pattern would be important to me if I were placing myself under his pastoring/teaching.

I hope this clarifies.

 

[Nicoleb07]

It seems that the same things you are stating that the Pastor did to the member, you are now doing to the Pastor. Would it have been better to go to him about this before getting a chance to dwell on it internally until your feelings about it got worse? But, just like with the pastor, I find no fault it you either. You are doing what you feel is right, and handling the situation the best way you know how. And in the future you will become better and better at it.

You see your small town with small membership and small options. But God can raise up stones to worship him. To you it may seem impossible to find a better place, but to God, nothing is impossible. But keep in mind, that this better place, could be just where you are. Trials come to make us stronger...and you will continue to encounter the same problems where ever you go until you overcome them and raise yourself above the problems.

Thanks Raymond. I refuse to be talked to or to have members of my family talked to in a certain way so I guess you are right I am dwelling on it. It really was made into a bigger ordeal than it should have been but when a preacher is saying by her leaving a few minutes early that she is ruining the sanctity of God I feel like that is over the top. I should have known better than to post on this forum because I feel like there are too many underlying factors to explain. We have actually gone to him about this and my aunt apologized. He said he stands by what he said and went as far as to say if we need to leave early then we aren't welcome in the church. I actually attended another church in a neighboring town Sunday and left feeling refreshed for the first time in years. So I guess you could say this was a blessing. It just makes me sad to leave a church I grew up in.

 

[Nicoleb07]

Did you discuss your concerns with your pastor? Sometimes, we need to have grace for other people - including those in leadership - and offer forgiveness even when they do not ask for it. Often, that means asking God to help give you the grace to forgive.

Along with that, speaking to the pastor in a way that genuinely expresses why it was hurtful will be helpful both for your relationship with your church - and for the other church member’s sake as well. Honestly, it would be best to come from the person who received the letter.

Also, be cautious when it comes to sharing this with others, especially in your congregation, as it can turn into gossip.

Scripture is clear on how to handle conflict in the church (Matthew 18). First, we are to privately address the problem with the person who caused the offense. If that doesn’t work, we are to privately join together with two or three believers to address the offender together. If that still doesn’t work, you work up the chain.

Remember that love covers a multitude of offense (1 Peter 4). We are called to love one another no matter what they do to us.

We actually did talk to him and my aunt apologized. He said he stands by what he said and went as far as to say if we need to leave early we aren't welcome in the church. I completely agree about sharing this which is why I came here for unbiased opinions.

 

[All4Christ]

We actually did talk to him and my aunt apologized. He said he stands by what he said and went as far as to say if we need to leave early we aren't welcome in the church. I completely agree about sharing this which is why I came here for unbiased opinions.

It’s good that you spoke with him.

My personal thought is that it may be time to just put aside hurt feelings as much as possible, and focus on your spiritual walk with God. (I’m not saying you are or aren’t doing this - just a recommendation in general). Often, we experience spiritual struggles, which make us depend on God over ourselves. He can use situations like this to help us depend on Him rather than the people around us. While others are fallible, He will always be there without failure.

Perhaps every time you think about it, say a prayer for the pastor and for your aunt? I can’t say whether it is or is not best for you to move to another church, but reaching out to God in prayer when you think about this is always a good thing to do. God also can use you to be a light in your church and to minister to fellow parishioners

 

[Endeavourer]

We actually did talk to him and my aunt apologized. He said he stands by what he said and went as far as to say if we need to leave early we aren't welcome in the church. I completely agree about sharing this which is why I came here for unbiased opinions.

I'm sad that he didn't apologize for his immature letter and for his outburst.