Necessity of an Interval between the Rapture and the 2nd Coming

[Amazing Horse]

Matthew 12:50 only mentions the Father as being in heaven. Strike one.

Isaiah 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

“if” you can show us any passage to support anyone hiding behind closed doors in a chamber in heaven, we will consider your point. Strike 2 you have one more strike.

I gave you wrong scripture insteed of Matthew 12:50 i wanted Hebrews 10:12 , copy paste wrong

 

[Postvieww]

Maybe tell me your point on rapture and ill disprove it in one argument so we can end this pointless conversation. Is it mid post trib or no at all ?

Does my screen name give you a clue?

 

[Postvieww]

I gave you wrong scripture insteed of Matthew 12:50 i wanted Hebrews 10:12 , copy paste wrong

Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

The question was “Can you make a case from scripture for a resurrected church in heaven”.

Hebrews 10:12 doesn’t answer that either, Jesus sat down on the right hand of God, not the church.

 

[Amazing Horse]

Does my screen name give you a clue?

Oh post trib is prolly the easiest to disprove , i would have more trouble with pre wrath.

Since you are Christian then you take authority of Christ over mine or anybody else who say anything right ? Jesus himself said in Matthew 24:36 that nobody know day or hour . If you are post tribulation , and the comming of Jesus is the day of the Lord ( Joel 2:28-32) , then we know that there will be no delay between end of tribulation and appearing of Christ ( Matthew 24:29) .

If post tribulation is true , then you simply could know day of Jesus appearing contradicting Matthew 24:36 by simply adding 7 years ( 2550 )from beginning of tribulation or 1290 days since Abomination of Desolation( Daniel 9:27) , you could know to the exact day when he come back because there is no delay .

Since you can't contradic this argument based on Jesus Christ saying himself that nobody can know , your post tribulation theory is good for garbage , goodbye

 

[Postvieww]

Since you are Christian then you take authority of Christ over mine or anybody else who say anything right ?

No, I challenged your post on an open debate forum.

Jesus himself said in Matthew 24:36 that nobody know day or hour . If you are post tribulation , and the comming of Jesus is the day of the Lord ( Joel 2:28-32) , then we know that there will be no delay between end of tribulation and appearing of Christ ( Matthew 24:29) .

If post tribulation is true , then you simply could know day of Jesus appearing contradicting Matthew 24:36 by simply adding 7 years ( 2550 )from beginning of tribulation or 1290 days since Abomination of Desolation( Daniel 9:27) , you could know to the exact day when he come back because there is no delay .

Since you can't contradic this argument based on Jesus Christ saying himself that nobody can know , your post tribulation theory is good for garbage , goodbye

Matthew 24: 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

In verse 36 Jesus said nothing about the timing of His coming. The context is the day and hour heaven and earth pass away.


The same for Mark 13:31-32

 

[Amazing Horse]

No, I challenged your post on an open debate forum.





Matthew 24: 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

In verse 36 Jesus said nothing about the timing of His coming. The context is the day and hour heaven and earth pass away.


The same for Mark 13:31-32

2 Timothy 3:7

 

[Amazing Horse]

No, I challenged your post on an open debate forum.





Matthew 24: 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

In verse 36 Jesus said nothing about the timing of His coming. The context is the day and hour heaven and earth pass away.


The same for Mark 13:31-32

Mark 13:35
This is more clear said so you can't hind behind courtain of passing away earth

 

[Hal A Peno]

qrtjh

 

[Hal A Peno]

dheh

 

[Amazing Horse]

Exploring Prophetic Mysteries

With (my good brother) Daniel Speck 8.16.16 Home


The Long List of Pre-Tribulation Rapture Fabrications


“But in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.” Matthew 15:6-9, Isaiah 29:13


The list of unbiblical doctrines fabricated by Dispensationalists is long and should disturb anyone who truly believes in Sola Scriptura. These are just some of the many Pre-Tribulation Rapture and Invisible Return false doctrines found nowhere in the Bible.


1. The Rapture will occur before the start of the Tribulation

2. Jesus will come back invisibly and only believers will see Him

3. The Rapture will be instant and invisible

4. The Church will not be here during the Tribulation

5. Christ’s Olivet prophecies were not written to the Church

6. II Thessalonians 2 says the Rapture will precede the antichrist

7. The Seven Churches of Revelation are seven church ages

8. The church at Philadelphia is solely the Church of the Last Days

9. John’s entrance through the open door is the Rapture

10. The 144,000 are evangelists

11. The Rapture is not the Second Coming

12. The Great Multitude that comes out of the Tribulation is not the Church

13. The Tribulation is the Day of the Lord

14. The Church and Israel cannot both be here during Daniel’s seventh week

15. There are seven Dispensations taught in the Bible

16. The Seventh Trumpet is not the last trumpet of I Corinthians 15

17. I Corinthians 15 instant transformation is an instant rapture

18. The prophetic types predict a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

19. The Mystery of God is not Christ and the Church

20. The First Resurrection of Revelation 20 is not the I Thessalonians 4 resurrection

21. The seven seals and seven trumpets are judgments

22. The Tribulation is the wrath of God

23. The Seven Bowls of Gods’ Wrath is part of the Tribulation

24. The Church will not come under persecution by the Antichrist

25. The Church will not be here when the mark of the beast is instituted


The list of Last Day prophecy doctrines that pre-Tribulationists don't understand is equally long and disturbing


1. What the Seven Seal Scroll is

2. What the Seven Seals are

3. Who the Great Multitude are

4. Who the 144,000 are

5. What the Seven Trumpets are

6. What the Seven Bowls of God's Wrath are

7. Who the Seven Churches are

8. Who the Philadelphia church represents

9. What the Mystery of God is

10. What the Seventh Trumpet is

11. What the Last Trumpet is

12. What and when the First Resurrection is

13. Who the Olivet Discourse is written to

14. What happens in the twinkling of an eye

15. When the Rapture will take place

16. What the Little Scroll is

17. Who will populate the Messianic age

18. The Tribulation is not wrath or judgment

19. What is the relationship between the Church and Israel

20. What and when the Church age is

21. How many dispensations are really taught in the Bible

22. What the Day of the Lord is

23. What and when the Second Coming is

24. Who the Restrainer is

25. Who Matthew 24 was written to

26. What "every eye shall see Him" means

27. Who will be persecuted by the beast

28. Who the elect, saints or brethren are

29. What "this generation" means


What the Bible actually says about the Second Coming and Rapture and how these false teaching contradict the Word of God


1. Jesus said He would return to gather the elect from the air after the Tribulation. Christians are called the elect (chosen) throughout the New Testament. Matthew 24:29-31, Romans 8:33.

2. The Rapture will not occur until after the Last Trumpet sounds. The last Trumpet in the Bible is the Seventh Trumpet at the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 11:15-18). A great trumpet sounds at the coming of Christ in Matthew 24:31. If this is not the Rapture Trumpet, then I Corinthians 15:51 is wrong.

3. The First Resurrection will not happen until after the saints resist the mark and image of the beast. Since there can be only one First Resurrection, the Revelation 20 resurrection has to be the same as the resurrection of the dead in Christ just before the Rapture. Revelation 20:4-7 is called the First Resurrection. I Thessalonians 4 says the dead in Christ will rise first just before the rapture. Revelation 20:4-6 is describing who will reign with Christ during the Millennium. This resurrection is a parenthetical event that happened earlier but the rewards for it are described in this later chapter because they were now being awarded. Revelation 20:1-5, I Thessalonians 4:16-17.

4. The Lord Jesus will not come and we will not be gathered to Him unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed first, both Tribulation events. Matthew 24:10, II Thessalonians 2:1-4.

5. Rahab, a prophetic type of the Church, was not taken out until after the seventh trumpet of the seventh day of the battle of Jericho, just as the Church will not be taken out of the world until after the seventh trumpet of the seventh seal. Joshua 6:20-23.

6. Joel 2 says the cosmic disasters of the Sixth Seal will occur before the Day of the Lord so the Tribulation cannot be the Day of the Lord as pre-Tribulation advocates claim. Joel 2:31, II Thessalonians 2:1-4, Revelation 6:12.

7. The Bible never says the rapture is always imminent as pre-Tribulationist teach. Suddenness is not imminence. Imminent means something is about to happen. Nothing can be imminent for 2,000 years. Only when “all these things” of the Tribulation begin to take place will the return of Christ and the Rapture be truly imminent. Matthew 24:33, Luke 21:31-13, Mark 13:29-36.

8. Darbyists teach that because the name "Church" is not used after Revelation 3, this proves it will not be here during the Tribulation. The name “Jew” isn’t used after chapter 3 either, but that doesn’t mean the Jews will not be present during the Tribulation. They certainly will be. The great multitude of Gentile believers in Revelation 7:9-17 is a perfect description of the Church.

9. An invisible Coming is not Biblical either. The Scriptures clearly state that every eye will see Him. Acts 1 says Jesus will come in the same way as He left: visibly and in the clouds. His Coming will be seen across the entire sky from east to west. Revelation 1:7, Acts 1:9-11, Matthew 24:27.

10. Another falsehood is teaching the Tribulation is the wrath and judgment of God. The Tribulation is called a test (Revelation 3:10) but it is never called wrath or judgment anywhere in the Scriptures. The wrath of God in poured only after Jesus comes on the clouds to gather the Church. The Seven Bowls of God's Wrath are not poured out until after the Seventh Trumpet, in fact don't occur until five chapters later.

11. The pre-Tribulation rapture is not in the Bible anywhere. There is not a single verse of Scripture which states there will be a pre-Tribulation rapture or an invisible return or that the Church will not go through the Tribulation.

Last trumpet is not 7th , there are trumpets in millenium , also trumpets in tribulation are blown by angels not God .

 

[Amazing Horse]

Pre-trib is junk from the get go because it distorts the gathering Jesus talked about. Pre-trib is so full of contradictions that slowly surfaced over the years, and continue to surface today, continually requiring even more fabrication to cover them all up.

Post trib doesn't mean we know the day or hour. One purpose of prophecy is so we know 'the season.' You guys need to get away from Daniel's 70th week. It does nothing for you other than mislead you.

No , post trib says exactly day because there is no delay as stated in previous posts , you know exactly day being post trib from abomination of desolation adding 1290 days .

 

[BABerean2]

No , post trib says exactly day because there is no delay as stated in previous posts , you know exactly day being post trib from abomination of desolation adding 1290 days .

You are ripping "the abomination of desolation" out of its historical fulfillment during 167 BC.
The Jews who lived during the time of Christ celebrated Hanukkah every year, as revealed by John 10:22. They knew that Christ was saying that something similar to what happened in 167 BC would happen again during 70 AD.

During both times a foreign army attacked the city of Jerusalem and the temple sacrifices were stopped.

Mat 24:15　 "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),　
Mat 24:16　 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

　
Luk 21:20　 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.　
Luk 21:21　 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.　


The same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in both Gospels reveals that they are speaking of the same event.

Matthew's Gospel was written to more of a Jewish audience who understood the events of 167 BC, because they celebrated Hanukkah each year. (When they read it, they understood it because of Hanukkah.)

Luke's Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience so he spelled it out for them.

.

 

[LastSeven]

It's on the last day of 6000 year of man on earth

Right, except the Bible doesn't say that, does it? You said it.

 

[Amazing Horse]

You are ripping "the abomination of desolation" out of its historical fulfillment during 167 BC.
The Jews who lived during the time of Christ celebrated Hanukkah every year, as revealed by John 10:22. They knew that Christ was saying that something similar to what happened in 167 BC would happen again during 70 AD.

During both times a foreign army attacked the city of Jerusalem and the temple sacrifices were stopped.

Mat 24:15　 "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),　
Mat 24:16　 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

　
Luk 21:20　 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.　
Luk 21:21　 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.　


The same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in both Gospels reveals that they are speaking of the same event.

Matthew's Gospel was written to more of a Jewish audience who understood the events of 167 BC, because they celebrated Hanukkah each year.
Luke's Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience so he spelled it out for them.

.

I alredy told you that Matt and Luke are in different places , to different people and about different things why do you put them together again ?

 

[Amazing Horse]

Right, except the Bible doesn't say that, does it? You said it.

Genesis 6:3

 

[BABerean2]

I alredy told you that Matt and Luke are in different places , to different people and about different things why do you put them together again ?

Because on this forum we use scripture as our source of truth, instead of the words of those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine that John Nelson Darby brought to America, about the time of the Civil War.

.

 

[LastSeven]

2 Corinthians 5:10 Is talking to believers about rewards , non believers don't get rewards so why would they stay here .

Have you read 2 Corinthians 5:10? It says we will get what we deserve, whether good or bad.

1 Corinthians 3:15 - if this judgement is the same for bad people and good , they by this scripture you would assume that lost people are not going to burn in hell

Just because we all get judged the same doesn't mean we all get the same result. Your argument is nonsense. We all get judged by the same measure. Some of us will earn eternal life, others death.

But we know that Mark 9:48 so bible would contradict itself if there was only one judgement

Your logic makes no sense. Just because there's a lake of fire for some doesn't mean there are two separate times of judgment. You have exactly zero scriptures proving that there have two be two separate times of judgment.

 

[Amazing Horse]

Because on this forum we use scripture as our source of truth, instead of the words of those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine that John Nelson Darby brought to America, about the time of the Civil War.

.

I'm not from America and i don't know who that guy was , i gave you 5-6 scriptures aswell trying to explain it , not saying of myself so don't judge me thanks

 

[Amazing Horse]

Have you read 2 Corinthians 5:10? It says we will get what we deserve, whether good or bad.

Just because we all get judged the same doesn't mean we all get the same result. Your argument is nonsense. We all get judged by the same measure. Some of us will earn eternal life, others death.


Your logic makes no sense. Just because there's a lake of fire for some doesn't mean there are two separate times of judgment. You have exactly zero scriptures proving that there have two be two separate times of judgment.

Have fun earning you way to heaven
Ephesians 1:13-14
Ephesians 2:8-9

 

[LastSeven]

Genesis 6:3

???? I don't understand how your brain works. Please explain to me how this verse...

Genesis 6:3
3 And Jehovah said, My spirit shall not strive with man for ever, for that he also is flesh: yet shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.

... proves that when Jesus said he would resurrect us on the last day, he didn't actually mean what he said but that he actually meant the last day of the first 6,000 years.

This should be good.