Neanderthals, Dinosaurs?

[Neogaia777]

@Neogaia777 - why is my post #296 "funny"?

The problem you have with "6 eras" as opposed to "6 literal days" is that in order for evolution to be true; there has to be death. The Scripture is very clear that death did not exist until Adam and Eve transgressed.

Now why does it "appear" to be millions of years to you and not others? Would that not be a matter of perception and not an indisputable fact?

Again, we are back to people's personal world views and what they choose to believe!

What kind of death or dying...? How so did thing die or not die before the fall compared to after it...? And I believe Adam and Eve and the Garden paradise etc, is about Heaven or the Heavenly realm, and being kicked out of it, etc...

I'm going to create a thread on this soon, but, Adam and Eve and The Garden was more than likely a revelation someone had or saw in a dream or vision, and was recorded, and was like John's vision of Heaven in Revelation, and both are describing or are trying to describe the "same thing" or place, but using things and concepts within our comprehension and within our current "vocabulary", I guess you could say, to do so...

That they are not exact or perfect by any means, is because no "illustration or likeness" "likeness" being the key words here, (cause they are all only likenesses), are adequate enough to truly explain it to us right now... we do not have the comprehension or "vocabulary", (again, I guess you could say), to see it all as it really and literally is right now, and we probably won't till we actually get there...

This is why I believe Jesus always started with the "question", "What is the Kingdom of God like, and what shall I compare it to...? (using our "vocabulary" here)...? It is "like", etc, etc, etc... Like not "exactly like" or "exactly alike" it, etc... Same with any or all others illustrations or likenesses to describe it (Heaven), or things there in Heaven, etc, they are all "inadequate"... Paul said he saw things, that were beyond words, or beyond any descriptions or illustrations or likenesses he could use to do so, or to describe the things he saw, with or by using things here, etc...

And I think they are all that way, they are only likenesses, and nothing here, and nothing that we know here, can ever be used to describe it or Heaven (or hell) "exactly"... it's just not possible while we are still "here" and only know the things of "here" etc... that would have to be used to try and describe "it" to us, etc... They all come and fall short in the end...

They are useful to a certain degree, but not very useful at all if we try to take them too literally... or try to take them with what is literal or is literally, or is considered literal here...

God Bless!

Oh and clearly things and stuff died physically here, millions of years ago prior to now, etc, unless God only made it to appear that way, or was intending to deceive and not tell the truth, and it is that, that I will not believe...

It is our interpretations that have to off or wrong, not God's honesty...

God Bless!

 

[ilovejcsog]

If death didn't exist then there could be nothing before Genesis.

 

[Neogaia777]

If death didn't exist then there could be nothing before Genesis.

Exactly, It is our interpretations that have to off or wrong, not God's honesty...

God Bless!

 

[ilovejcsog]

delete

 

[Neogaia777]

What kind of death or dying...? How so did thing die or not die before the fall compared to after it...? And I believe Adam and Eve and the Garden paradise etc, is about Heaven or the Heavenly realm, and being kicked out of it, etc...

I'm going to create a thread on this soon, but, Adam and Eve and The Garden was more than likely a revelation someone had or saw in a dream or vision, and was recorded, and was like John's vision of Heaven in Revelation, and both are describing or are trying to describe the "same thing" or place, but using things and concepts within our comprehension and within our current "vocabulary", I guess you could say, to do so...

That they are not exact or perfect by any means, is because no "illustration or likeness" "likeness" being the key words here, (cause they are all only likenesses), are adequate enough to truly explain it to us right now... we do not have the comprehension or "vocabulary", (again, I guess you could say), to see it all as it really and literally is right now, and we probably won't till we actually get there...

This is why I believe Jesus always started with the "question", "What is the Kingdom of God like, and what shall I compare it to...? (using our "vocabulary" here)...? It is "like", etc, etc, etc... Like not "exactly like" or "exactly alike" it, etc... Same with any or all others illustrations or likenesses to describe it (Heaven), or things there in Heaven, etc, they are all "inadequate"... Paul said he saw things, that were beyond words, or beyond any descriptions or illustrations or likenesses he could use to do so, or to describe the things he saw, with or by using things here, etc...

And I think they are all that way, they are only likenesses, and nothing here, and nothing that we know here, can ever be used to describe it or Heaven (or hell) "exactly"... it's just not possible while we are still "here" and only know the things of "here" etc... that would have to be used to try and describe "it" to us, etc... They all come and fall short in the end...

They are useful to a certain degree, but not very useful at all if we try to take them too literally... or try to take them with what is literal or is literally, or is considered literal here...

God Bless!

Oh and clearly things and stuff died physically here, millions of years ago prior to now, etc, unless God only made it to appear that way, or was intending to deceive and not tell the truth, and it is that, that I will not believe...

It is our interpretations that have to off or wrong, not God's honesty...

God Bless!

When Adam and Eve and Creation "fell" or died that day, it was in a Spiritual sense... for they did not die literally of physically till long after that, and neither did Creation or things in Creation either, but they did die Spiritually, or in a Spiritual sense that very day, or in the very moment of eating the fruit, etc...

God Bless!

 

[ilovejcsog]

If death didn't exist before genesis then there could be nothing living before Adam and Eve's sin.

 

[Neogaia777]

If death didn't exist before genesis then there could be nothing living before Adam and Eve's sin.

And there apparently was, "apparently" anyway... unless or interpretations of Genesis and the things that are actually described in Genesis are off or are in error, which could be very likely, and most probably "are", etc, but all to few people are actually brave enough to challenge their own interpretations of assumptions...

And it is "their own", etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

And there apparently was, "apparently" anyway... unless or interpretations of Genesis and the things that are actually described in Genesis are off or are in error, which could be very likely, and most probably "are", etc, but all to few people are actually brave enough to challenge their own interpretations of assumptions...

And it is "their own", etc...

God Bless!

If Genesis, or some of the beginning parts of Genesis are actually about "something else" or "another place", then there might not have been anything that existed before it, or before Adam and Eve and the Garden Paradise, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I always start with the assumption that God cannot lie, but I can, or can be lying to myself, by creating and/or desperately clinging to some false assumptions perhaps, etc...

That is always the assumption I start out with anyway...

God Bless!

 

[ilovejcsog]

Sorry, my computer doesn't always tell me when what I have typed got posted so I end up with lots. Just consider there is only one post.

 

[Neogaia777]

The vision or story of Adam and Eve and the Garden Paradise etc, is a "symbolic allegory of Heaven", and so is John vision in Revelation of it, etc, and in fact, they all are, as nothing here can be used to describe it exactly or literally...

But all are trying to describe the same place...

God Bless!

 

[ilovejcsog]

When Adam and Eve and Creation "fell" or died that day, it was in a Spiritual sense... for they did not die literally of physically till long after that, and neither did Creation or things in Creation either, but they did die Spiritually, or in a Spiritual sense that very day, or in the very moment of eating the fruit, etc...

God Bless!

I interpret it another way. When they sinned they brought death in where it wasn't before so instead of living forever they lived a shorter time from that point on. They didn't die at that moment but nothing would live forever from that point on.

 

[Neogaia777]

I interpret it another way. When they sinned they brought death in where it wasn't before so instead of living forever they lived a shorter time from that point on. They didn't die at that moment but nothing would live forever from that point on.

They died spiritually or in a spiritual sense in that very moment, and so did all of Creation...

And that is the kind of death it is talking about...

God Bless!

 

[ilovejcsog]

So that still doesn't answer where the neanderthals and dinosaurs were in the bible if they are real at all. They seem a very important thing to me not to be mentioned a great deal in the word.

 

[Neogaia777]

So that still doesn't answer where the neanderthals and dinosaurs were in the bible if they are real at all. They seem a very important thing to me not to be mentioned a great deal in the word.

Well, if some of the beginnings or Genesis were about another place, and then at some point transitioned or made the transition to this place, it would depend on at what point that transition was made, etc...

And that could explain why they are not mentioned specifically or literally, etc, maybe, etc...

God Bless!

 

[ilovejcsog]

LOL, that's as clear as mud

 

[The Righterzpen]

@Neogaia777

The first problem you have is Revelation says it is a vision from heaven. Genesis does not!

Adam and Eve were not created in heaven. They were created on earth.

Death was not just spiritual. It was also physical and the proof of that is that eventually they did physically die.

The phrase in Genesis "... day you eat of this you shall surely die..." is a three fold death. They are separated fellowship from God, they will eventually physically die and if not atoned for will face God's wrath for their sin.

The atonement was not just about human sin breaking fellowship with God. It was about contending with the fact that the wrath of God abides on men because of sin. That had to be dealt with, this is why Christ's death is a "substitutionary atonement". The Scripture says that the last enemy to be overcome was death and this is why Jesus literally physically died (not just "spiritually") and literally physically rose from the dead.

The consequence of sin very much involves physical death; and without sin there would have been no physical death. "By one man (Adam) sin entered in" and with sin also death. The fact that the two are inseparably linked together makes "theistic evolution" impossible.

The existence of life is not dependent on the presence of sin. We know this because God is a living God and He does not sin. Jesus Christ living as a mortal entity in His own creation proved that!

I agree that God does not deceive; but your belief that the world has to be billions of years old, just because it "looks" that way to you - is your deception, not God's. The heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. The fact that you believe you can't be wrong, because to you the earth "looks" billions of years old - is proof of the verse I just quoted.

 

[Neogaia777]

@Neogaia777

The first problem you have is Revelation says it is a vision from heaven. Genesis does not!

Adam and Eve were not created in heaven. They were created on earth.

Death was not just spiritual. It was also physical and the proof of that is that eventually they did physically die.

The phrase in Genesis "... day you eat of this you shall surely die..." is a three fold death. They are separated fellowship from God, they will eventually physically die and if not atoned for will face God's wrath for their sin.

The atonement was not just about human sin breaking fellowship with God. It was about contending with the fact that the wrath of God abides on men because of sin. That had to be dealt with, this is why Christ's death is a "substitutionary atonement". The Scripture says that the last enemy to be overcome was death and this is why Jesus literally physically died (not just "spiritually") and literally physically rose from the dead.

The consequence of sin very much involves physical death; and without sin there would have been no physical death. "By one man (Adam) sin entered in" and with sin also death. The fact that the two are inseparably linked together makes "theistic evolution" impossible.

The existence of life is not dependent on the presence of sin. We know this because God is a living God and He does not sin. Jesus Christ living as a mortal entity in His own creation proved that!

I agree that God does not deceive; but your belief that the world has to be billions of years old, just because it "looks" that way to you - is your deception, not God's. The heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. The fact that you believe you can't be wrong, because to you the earth "looks" billions of years old - is proof of the verse I just quoted.

If you believe everything in Genesis was literal, or was just about this place only, alone, then your delusional, sorry...

And just forget the fact that has all been proven to be scientifically impossible as well...

So, in my mind, there has to another explanation, and just because I may not know right now, what it or that specifically is (though I have a general idea and some theories that go along with them/that), Anyway, it does not mean that you are right and I am wrong, etc, when in fact you have to be wrong in light of the evidence, etc...

It just means that I am willing to change and alter my own perceptions in light of the evidence and to go along with the evidence or obvious truth or truths and you are not, so...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I have always been curious about the "Arks", and about maybe those points being where some transitions were made maybe...?

Jesus said that those who are taken up to be with God or raptured in the Last days before Armaggeddon, would be like those who entered or were taken into, or entered into Noah's Ark in Noah's day or days, or in the days of Noah and his Ark, etc...?

The Arks were like vessels or possibly vehicles or some kind...? Containers anyway, etc...

God Bless!

 

[ilovejcsog]

Neo said:

"Well, if some of the beginnings or Genesis were about another place, and then at some point transitioned or made the transition to this place, it would depend on at what point that transition was made, etc...

And that could explain why they are not mentioned specifically or literally, etc, maybe, etc.."
That doesn't sound biblical.
I like your posting style, it makes me laugh!
You and Righter would be good adversaries for the Universalist with your in-depth knowledge of the word.