Neanderthals, Dinosaurs?

[JacksBratt]

The vision or story of Adam and Eve and the Garden Paradise etc, is a "symbolic allegory of Heaven", and so is John vision in Revelation of it, etc, and in fact, they all are, as nothing here can be used to describe it exactly or literally...

But all are trying to describe the same place...

God Bless!

OH no.... not more allegorical, mythical and symbolism to "man splain" away the truth of the biblical scripture because... well because.. um well WHY? Because you cannot conceive of these things being true... with our feeble human brain and conceptual ability?

Well, then, you better toss out the whole gospel because that portion of the bible has the most supernatural and miraculous events condensed into 33 years of time on this earth.

 

[JacksBratt]

If you believe everything in Genesis was literal, or was just about this place only, alone, then your delusional, sorry...

God Bless!

How can you make the first statement... about this poster being "delusuional" due to having a different view than you hold... which, in my opinion shows your utter lack of faith in God and His word...... then go to end your post with "God Bless".

Seriously........ take step back and take the beam out of your eye.......

 

[joshua 1 9]

Well there were things living before their sin... just nothing dying.

There was death, just not death from sin. Cain made this very clear: "Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me." Genesis 4:14

All of the human remains before Adam and Eve were "slayed". Either their head was bashed in or they were killed with an arrow head or spear. Cheddar man is a good example. We have his DNA preserved in his tooth. Also we have living descendants of his.

 

[JacksBratt]

I use science to show that Adam and Eve were real people that lived in a real garden. I believe Adam existed and was a real person. Abraham was descended from Adam and all of the Arab Continental plate was given to their descendants.

Haplogroup J-M304, also known as J, is a human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup. It is believed to have evolved in Western Asia. The clade spread from there during the Neolithic, primarily into North Africa, the Horn of Africa, Socotra, the Caucasus, Southern Europe, West Asia, Central Asia, South Asia, and Southeast (wiki)

We can go into all of this if you want. I have not looked at it for a while so I am sure there are huge amounts of new information available because of all the research they do on this.

I was referring to your belief that Adam had a belly button......

 

[joshua 1 9]

The vision or story of Adam and Eve and the Garden Paradise etc, is a "symbolic allegory of Heaven"

Yes the story is a symbol, allegory, paradigm, archetype and so on. In addition to all of that, the story is also literal truth. God is amazing that He is able to do all of that. If there is a name then we are dealing with a real person. A real person that has traceable DNA.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I was referring to your belief that Adam had a belly button......

Yes, I believe Adam was a REAL person that we read about in our Bible, in our science book and in our history book. I have studied science and history for over 50 years and I have studied the Bible for over 35 years. My ancient history teacher was a Holocaust survivor and my first science teacher was a graduate of Harvard.

The real issue has to do with Eve. IF God really did create Eve from Adam's rib then her MtDNA would have had to come from Adam's mother. Because that is where Adam would have received his MtDNA. That would make Eve his sister bride.

You have to have a time and a place.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I was referring to your belief that Adam had a belly button......

Genesis 2:7 "Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

Theistic Evolution tells us HOW God formed man from the dust of the ground. We know that Jesus had a belly button and Jesus was descended from Adam. If Adam did not have a belly button then Jesus would not have been incarnated. Even though it is not clear who Seth married. Jesus became a part of His creation so that He could die in our place.

 

[Ronald]

Since Gods day can be a thousand years how do you know that after the first day of creation it took more than 24 hrs to 999years to create the second creation, etc?
Just to add more confusion.

2 Peter 3:8 one day is like a thousand years - creation.com

 

[Ronald]

The way God see's it, and the way we will look back on it, yes, it will be and "insignificant blip" compared to the vast stretches of cosmic time...

And is why it is not even mentioned in Genesis 1 to 2:4... Which is the summary of an entire creation from the beginning to and ending of one... Covers billions, possibly even trillions of years...

God Bless!

Gen. 1 is just an outline. Gen. 2 goes back and fills in more details. Then Gen. 3, the fall. Not billions, thousands.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Gen. 1 is just an outline. Gen. 2 goes back and fills in more details.

Gensis 1 "26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him;male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.”

The man is Genesis 1 was told to subdue the entire earth. Adam was given the Garden of Eden. The man in chapter one was a hunter gather. Adam was a food producer. Also we are told about the breath of life. This is what made Adam different. The Garden of Eden contained domesticated plants and animals. They call this in Science Botany and they know quite a bit about how the wild plants become domesticated in the middle east and how farming spread from the middle East to Europe.

Genesis 2:7 "Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being. 8 And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, where He placed the man He had formed."

 

[JacksBratt]

Yes, I believe Adam was a REAL person that we read about in our Bible, in our science book and in our history book. I have studied science and history for over 50 years and I have studied the Bible for over 35 years. My ancient history teacher was a Holocaust survivor and my first science teacher was a graduate of Harvard.

The real issue has to do with Eve. IF God really did create Eve from Adam's rib then her MtDNA would have had to come from Adam's mother. Because that is where Adam would have received his MtDNA. That would make Eve his sister bride.

You have to have a time and a place.

Oh, and who was Adams mother?

 

[JacksBratt]

Genesis 2:7 "Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

Theistic Evolution tells us HOW God formed man from the dust of the ground. We know that Jesus had a belly button and Jesus was descended from Adam. If Adam did not have a belly button then Jesus would not have been incarnated. Even though it is not clear who Seth married. Jesus became a part of His creation so that He could die in our place.

You do know why we have a belly button......... right?

 

[DamianWarS]

Lets try this again. Please, no page long answers or riddles my brain can't handle them.
Was there anything prior to Genesis?
Were there Dinosaurs and where do they fit in?
Were there Neanderthals and where do they fit in?
No more polls, I just mess them up.
Thanks for giving your opinion.

the biblical creation account is often defended by saying it's not a science book so don't expect it to fit science. Where I agree with this what this reveals is the creation account values a certain type of information and at the same time doesn't care about other types. The creation account is essentially God getting ready a place for man, this is it's the goal so anything that does not accomplish this goal is set aside and has no place in the account.

This is how Hebraic block logic works. It is not about dinosaurs or neanderthals. These things don't fit or build towards the goal of the account so they don't matter. This doesn't mean these things never existed, it just means they don't have a place in the biblical creation account.

 

[Ronald]

This thread is about origins. Where did things come from? Where do they fit in the time line.

In order for this hypothesis to be true; all sorts of laws God established would have to be violated and violated by God Himself!

We know one species does not arise from others. Humans did not come from monkeys. All life on this planet did not evolve from some undefined primordial "goo".

Scripture says God made everything after its own kind. Angels and men are not the same "kind". If you can't cross dogs and cats, why would you think you could cross humans and angels?

Scripture also says that angels don't marry or are given in marriage. Jesus says marriage is for the children of this world because death reigns. We also know that angels don't die in the same sense as carbon based life does. The lifespan of angels is from the point they were created until judgement day. Because they don't suffer death in the same way carbon based life does, thus eliminates the need to reproduce. And if a certain form of entity does not reproduce; there'd be no reason for God to give (them) organs to that end.

Angels are also fundamentally different in nature than carbon based life. Thus angels can not create life; only God can do that. Now would God violate the rules that govern His own creation in producing some sort of angelic / human hybrid life form? Does that really make sense?

The only combination Spirit / carbon based life form that ever existed was Jesus Christ. (Who, by the way never reproduced although he was obviously capable of doing so!) So if the only combination Spirit / human life form who was capable of reproducing was restrained from doing so despite the desire to follow the command that said "be fruitful and multiply"; why on earth would anyone ever conclude that God would not only create genitals for entities who could never use them and allow them to violate His own principles (mind you a place He Him/himself wouldn't even go) and allow them to do something only He has the power and authority to do - which is create life.

Think of the implication of that belief.

Nice photos, do you work for National Geographic? Probably not since you missed the story about the Burlingame Canyon carved out in 6 days by water - a smaller version of the Grand Canyon but obviously caused by less water.
When an abrupt cataclysmic flood happens, smooth rocks don't appear, that takes thousands of years.
Massive amounts of water carves out many canyons (if not all) and this powerful water traveled as far up the mountains as life goes, maybe 17k feet? That's over three miles of water. And then of course it descended for many months before the Ark came to rest at about 14k feet on MT. ARARAT.
Remember, it did not all come from the sky, it came from beneath the surface. And very possibly, an asteroid hit around the Gulf of Mexico that not only jarred the earth but created massive waves - able to travel thousands of miles.
A Canyon in Six Days!

 

[joshua 1 9]

You do know why we have a belly button......... right?

Yes the point is that Adam had a mother and a father. This is not so clear with Eve.

 

[Hank77]

Nice photos, do you work for National Geographic? Probably not since you missed the story about the Burlingame Canyon carved out in 6 days by water - a smaller version of the Grand Canyon but obviously caused by less water.

The volume of rock, etc. that was displaced in the Burlingame Canyon, in 6 days, is almost 90 million less than the rock, etc. displaced in the Grand Canyon.
Using the same rate of volume to days it would still take 1.5 million years to form the Grand Canyon.

 

[Ronald]

Gensis 1 "26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him;male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.”

The man is Genesis 1 was told to subdue the entire earth. Adam was given the Garden of Eden. The man in chapter one was a hunter gather. Adam was a food producer. Also we are told about the breath of life. This is what made Adam different. The Garden of Eden contained domesticated plants and animals. They call this in Science Botany and they know quite a bit about how the wild plants become domesticated in the middle east and how farming spread from the middle East to Europe.

Genesis 2:7 "Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being. 8 And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, where He placed the man He had formed."

The man, Adam is the same man in both chapters. Adam is told to subdue the animals, which is also a message to mankind as was " be fruitful and multiply" a message to all of us.
Genesis literally and correctly interpreted does not fit in with an old earth, especilly billions of years, or a 65 million year separation from dinosaurs to man. So, the Bible (many postulate), must not be literal. And so you either must distort it, render it an allegory or myth.
I will not, I take it literally. Besides, if the botanicals were created on day 3 and the sun on day 4, how could they survive thousands or millions of years if a day meant a long period of time?
No, Gen. 1:4, 5 clearly describes a 24 hour day, which includes light (which He called day), combined with the dark ( which He called night). Does that sound familiar? Yes, I think I fell asleep last night, woke up and it was daylight - just like the Bible said. But I could be mistaken _ maybe I've been asleep for millions of years?

 

[Ronald]

The volume of rock, etc. that was displaced in the Burlingame Canyon, in 6 days, is almost 90 million less than the rock, etc. displaced in the Grand Canyon.
Using the same rate of volume to days it would still take 1.5 million years to form the Grand Canyon.

No, you just need 90 million times more water.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I'm saying that if He did create it in a literal six days, which I will not argue He is capable of doing, then why did He do such with the appearance of millions even billions of years...?

How long does it take to build a car? Less then a day. Around 17-18 hours if you have all the parts. The question is, how long does it take to make the parts that you use to build a car? Genesis 2:7 "Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being." How long did it take God to make the dust of the ground that He made man from? According to Science about 12.9 Billion years.

My son is a computer engineer. There is a LOT that goes into setting up an factory assembly line. One it is all set up and running, you can make your product pretty fast. I saw a tree company cut down and grind up a 50 year old tree in two or three hours. But how long did it take to make the equipment that they needed to be able to get rid of that tree so fast. They could feed the tree into the grinding machine and get rid of it in maybe 10 or 15 min. There would still be a mess to clean up though.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The man, Adam is the same man in both chapters.

They would have lived 2,000 years apart. We have to study science and then we can look at our Bible to see what God has done from the beginning. Science helps us to understand our Bible. History helps us to understand our Bible also. The man in Genesis one was created on day 6. Adam in the Bible was create on day 8 around 5990 years ago.

Genesis literally and correctly interpreted does not fit in with an old earth

Everything fits if you go by Gerald Schroeder where each day is half the length of the day before. This means you look at everything from the perspective of "In the Beginning". We can not go to the end and look back, we have to go to the beginning and look forward.