Navy Seal Warns Against Transgendering the Kids

[Yttrium]

With suicide rates being higher after transitioning it makes no sense why we would transition the kids.

It seems to me that you're conflating issues here. You point out suicide rates, trying to imply that transition is bad, and others try to counter your arguments, but they're talking about transitioning in general, and you you assume they're good with transition kids. You're bouncing back and forth between general and kids like a ping pong ball, and it's been painfully illogical. I think I can safely conclude the following:

We can agree that kids shouldn't get the surgery.

Your statistics ignore obvious alternatives due to your biases.

Arguments about adult transitioning shouldn't apply to kids, since we've agreed not to allow the surgery on the kids.

 

[Margaret3110]

This is a growing phenomenon. More and more people are starting to realize that they were pushed into transitioning. This is particularly dangerous for kids.

However, there is growing concern among many doctors and other healthcare professionals as to whether this is, in fact, the best way to proceed for those under aged 18, in particular, with several countries pulling back on medical treatment and instead emphasizing psychotherapy first.

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That's why I noted that the trans people I know have all transitioned as adults, usually after many years of gender dysphoria and experimentation with social transition. I'm not advocating for medically transitioning children.

 

[rjs330]

It seems to me that you're conflating issues here. You point out suicide rates, trying to imply that transition is bad, and others try to counter your arguments, but they're talking about transitioning in general, and you you assume they're good with transition kids. You're bouncing back and forth between general and kids like a ping pong ball, and it's been painfully illogical. I think I can safely conclude the following:

We can agree that kids shouldn't get the surgery.

Your statistics ignore obvious alternatives due to your biases.

Arguments about adult transitioning shouldn't apply to kids, since we've agreed not to allow the surgery on the kids.

What about chemical transitioning? Are you for that on the kids?

We should NOT be transing kids period. They need to wait.

This entire thing is about the need for kids to wait. The desistance rates, the regret and the suicide rates ALL point to the fact that kids should be left alone. If kids feel they need to transition they should be given a very long term of paychological care to determine the causes and why they feel this way. Odds are they will discover that there are other underlying factors in their thoughts and feelings that can be delt with without these radical life altering procedures. They won't need to be chemically sterilized or altered.

Leave the kids alone.

And by the way, 18 is not a good time for this either. I work with 18-22 year olds every day and I'm reminded every day how immature and foolish they are. They are not in any way prepared to make a good decision in this case.

It's a proven fact that the brain is not fully developed until they are about 25. They are still driven by their emotions and the hypothalamus.

Everyone in this case should not be transitioning until they are at least 25 and have had a long term psychological care.

But I understand that at 18 it's legal. If I had a choice in the matter I wouldn't allow it until they are 21. And again only after a long term psychological care. They may just desist or discover they are gay or have other psychological disorders that are causing this.

 

[Yttrium]

What about chemical transitioning? Are you for that on the kids?

No.

We should NOT be transing kids period. They need to wait.

Uh huh. You're pretty much just preaching to the choir about that.

 

[Pommer]

It seems to me that you're conflating issues here. You point out suicide rates, trying to imply that transition is bad, and others try to counter your arguments, but they're talking about transitioning in general, and you you assume they're good with transition kids. You're bouncing back and forth between general and kids like a ping pong ball, and it's been painfully illogical. I think I can safely conclude the following:

We can agree that kids shouldn't get the surgery.

Your statistics ignore obvious alternatives due to your biases.

Arguments about adult transitioning shouldn't apply to kids, since we've agreed not to allow the surgery on the kids.

I think you may misunderstand @rjs330’s position.
If I am not mistaken, their opinion is that there no people who are transgender, there are only people with a mental illness and would like it if society agreed to treat those people with this “mental illness” through traditional psychological & psychiatric methods.

That would mean no surgeries for anyone who identifies as “transgender”, ever.

 

[Yttrium]

I think you may misunderstand @rjs330’s position.
If I am not mistaken, their opinion is that there no people who are transgender, there are only people with a mental illness and would like it if society agreed to treat those people with this “mental illness” through traditional psychological & psychiatric methods.

That would mean no surgeries for anyone who identifies as “transgender”, ever.

No, I was aware of that. But he's been obsessing about transgendering (physically altering) kids lately. And although transgendering kids is certainly a concern, it's not the grand conspiracy he's been making it out to be, and it's not something championed by members of the forums.

 

[rjs330]

I think you may misunderstand @rjs330’s position.
If I am not mistaken, their opinion is that there no people who are transgender, there are only people with a mental illness and would like it if society agreed to treat those people with this “mental illness” through traditional psychological & psychiatric methods.

That would mean no surgeries for anyone who identifies as “transgender”, ever.

I think you may misunderstand @rjs330’s position.
If I am not mistaken, their opinion is that there no people who are transgender, there are only people with a mental illness and would like it if society agreed to treat those people with this “mental illness” through traditional psychological & psychiatric methods.

That would mean no surgeries for anyone who identifies as “transgender”, ever.

I do believe that's true. When you are born you are born male or female. You were not born we amorphous individual with no maleness or femaleness.

We also not born exactly alike. Not all males are the same and not all females are the same. But you are female along a range and male along a range.

If you believe you are actually the opposite sex, then that is a mental issue. No different than believing you might be a cat or a tiger.

It should be delt with using traditional psychological counseling.

However, I don't believe it should be against the law to get surgeries it as an adult.

 

[rjs330]

No, I was aware of that. But he's been obsessing about transgendering (physically altering) kids lately. And although transgendering kids is certainly a concern, it's not the grand conspiracy he's been making it out to be, and it's not something championed by members of the forums.

Actually there are people on these forums that DO support drugging the kids and or giving them surgeries. Go read some of the other threads on it.

Their claim is that we should not prohibit it because some kids need it.

As far as the conspiracy is concerned, yes there are transactivists that are actively trying to promote transitioning for kids.

Kids have actively been taught in schools that boys can be girls and girls can be boys. Kids have been transitioned after only one or two psychological sessions. Schools have actively pursued socially transitioning kids without parents knowledge.

Parents have lost their parental rights over this issue because they refused to allow their kids to transition.

There has been an explosion of transgendered kids by upwards of 400%. This would not be happening if there were not people encouraging this. 13 year olds would not be getting surgeries if this was not the case.

Man, wake up!

 

[Pommer]

If you believe you are actually the opposite sex, then that is a mental issue. No different than believing you might be a cat or a tiger.

“The mind is what the brain does” is the basis for functionalism.
If the brain expects to see a vulva but the body sports a penis, we cannot, at the present time, “fix the brain”. Therefore the modalism is to “fix the body”.
Relying solely on psychiatric means to help individuals so afflicted is cruel.

 

[rjs330]

“The mind is what the brain does” is the basis for functionalism.
If the brain expects to see a vulva but the body sports a penis, we cannot, at the present time, “fix the brain”. Therefore the modalism is to “fix the body”.
Relying solely on psychiatric means to help individuals so afflicted is cruel.

No the mind does not "expect to see a vulva instead if a penis". Kids have no idea what any of that is. It's just the body they were born with. A kid doesnt look down and say "hey, I'm not supposed to have that."

It's a feeling. They feel like a different gender. Some want to change their body parts to match their feelings.

We should be counseling them to help them deal with those feelings and help them accept what they were born as.

We don't tell annorexics it's okay. They can just be annorexic. No we try and help them to see themselves differently and try and get them to live a normal life if at all possible. We dont try to get them to be more annorexic.

It turns out that many of the transgenders have other issues they need to deal with. Other things that happened or other mental health issues. All of that should be worked on in therapy.

No it's not cruel. It would help people. It's far more cruel to chemically castrate kids with drugs that aren't even meant for that and haven't had the proper studies done. Or to give them surgeries to cut off body parts. Only to have them later want to desist but it's too late. No that's cruel.

 

[KCfromNC]

Actually there are people on these forums that DO support drugging the kids and or giving them surgeries. Go read some of the other threads on it.

Wonder what the discussion isn't happening on those hypothetical threads with those hypothetical people rather than here.

 

[KCfromNC]

No the mind does not "expect to see a vulva instead if a penis". Kids have no idea what any of that is.

Interesting assertion.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Do you know what would slow down the process a lot?

People using their brains?

 

[rambot]

People using their brains?

I know you are but what am I?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I know you are but what am I?

Why would you approve of puberty blockers and HRT if the FDA hasn't approved of their usage for such purposes and admits they don't know the long term effects?

 

[rjs330]

Wonder what the discussion isn't happening on those hypothetical threads with those hypothetical people rather than here.

Have you not participated in any of the threads? I guess I shouldn't expect you to remember everything.

But if you doubt maybe you should go take a look.

 

[rjs330]

Interesting assertion.

Not anymore interesting than the assurtion that the brain expects to see a vulva instead of a penis.

I'd sure like to see the proof that kids brains "expect" to see anything particular. I've never heard that kids expect to see a body part that's different than the one that's there. Are there some that expect to see a hand at the end of their leg instead of a foot? Or an eye instead of a nose?

I would think that would be an indicator of a serious mental problem. I wonder if we would treat it the same way and chop off their foot and sew a fake hand on there instead.

 

[KCfromNC]

Have you not participated in any of the threads? I guess I shouldn't expect you to remember everything.

But if you doubt maybe you should go take a look.

Can't help but notice the reluctance to actually name the threads, posts, and posters in question. Almost as if they're made up or something.

 

[KCfromNC]

Not anymore interesting than the assurtion that the brain expects to see a vulva instead of a penis.

I'd sure like to see the proof that kids brains "expect" to see anything particular.

I'll refrain from asserting it was proven in a different thread, and playing games like "
Have you not participated in any of the threads? I guess I shouldn't expect you to remember everything.
But if you doubt maybe you should go take a look. "

Bullet 5 from the list of symptoms here, for example Gender Dysphoria

 

[rjs330]

Can't help but notice the reluctance to actually name the threads, posts, and posters in question. Almost as if they're made up or something.

I can't help but noting you want everyone else to do the work for you.