Myth, Fact, Parable

[Carl Emerson]

It does not sound too credible.

Basically, Josephus says that somebody else says that he heard somebody else said it.

But thanks for the quote.

"its remains are shewed there by the inhabitants to this day...."

These were the words of Josephus himself.

 

[Carl Emerson]

For those really interested in this topic I refer to a post I made here...

Noah's ark remains...

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Hello there. The past and History are two different things, History is writings about the past. In the same way I would draw a distinction between the bible on one hand and the work of authors writing their opinions about the bible on the other. Kind Regards

Just trying to be clear but do you view the Bible as writing about the past?

 

[lismore]

Just trying to be clear but do you view the Bible as writing about the past?

The bible writes about the past while it's still the future

 

[Laconia79]

Even if true, it doest not mean that it proves every sentence about flood from Genesis to be historical. It would also be good to give the book and chapter of Josephus.

Its very probable that the flood happened, in Mesopotamia, in the cradle of civilization.

But it does not mean it had to be 40 days, that raven and dove were involved or that they already divided animals to clean and unclean according to Mosaic rules. And of course, the "whole world" in the text does not mean the whole planet.

Exactly, you said it better than I could have

 

[jamiec]

The flood motif is pretty universal.


Flood myth - Wikipedia.

That is no proof, or even good evidence, of a single, geographically universal, historically-real flood.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

That is no proof, or even good evidence, of a single, geographically universal, historically-real flood.

I am not saying it is. And to me it does not matter. I do not need to believe Genesis literally.

 

[Laconia79]

We know most of humanity as we know it today started in the area of mespotamia. Now is is likley that a massive flood happened and tells of the flood spread as humanity spread across the earth. What I love is when I point out the inconsistancies like the fact there is not enough water on the planet to cover the entire planet with water 20 feet over the tallest mountain so were talking 4 to 5 miles over the current surface of the planet. How did the animals survive the years it would have taken for the vegetation to grow back. Basically none of it could happened unless god magically put everyone to sleep and automatically healled the earth. Know mention of the fact that 2 or 7 of every land animal and insect on the planet would be to many. There would not have been less animals back then...there would have been more. The titanic was about massivly bigger than the ark in size...it could not have held 2 or 7 of every species of land animal. So basically magic did it, and if that is the case why did god not just snap his fingers and whipe the evil people out. He could do that. Inconsistancies and people do not want to look at it.

 

[Archivist]

I dont think so...

It is on Ararat at about 14000 feet embedded in a glacier.

There have been all sorts of claims of the ark being found over the years. Thus far all have been disproven.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Some disproven, some unproven...

 

[Archivist]

Some disproven, some unproven...

And none proven despite numerous claims.

 

[Carl Emerson]

And none proven despite numerous claims.

Not quite time in God's timetable I am guessing.

 

[Archivist]

Not quite time in God's timetable I am guessing.

Or there simply was no worldwide flood, hence there is no ark to find.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Or there simply was no worldwide flood, hence there is no ark to find.

So for example Marco Polo was teasing when he reported seeing it and Josephus lied about folks making a pilgrimage to the Ark ???

 

[Archivist]

So for example Marco Polo was teasing when he reported seeing it and Josephus lied about folks making a pilgrimage to the Ark ???

They might have seen something but it wasn’t the ark. There is a site in Turkey, for example, that was once believed by many to be the ark. It has since been determined to be a geological formation. And you forget that ancient historians regularly sacrificed truth and accuracy for beauty and rhetoric.

 

[Carl Emerson]

They might have seen something but it wasn’t the ark. There is a site in Turkey, for example, that was once believed by many to be the ark. It has since been determined to be a geological formation. And you forget that ancient historians regularly sacrificed truth and accuracy for beauty and rhetoric.

I guess Jesus did too then...

 

[Archivist]

I guess Jesus did too then...

Why would you say that? Are you putting Jesus, the King of Kings, on the same level as explorer Marco Polo or historian Josephus? Really?

Josephus wrote in the style of historians of his day. He commonly exaggerated, embellished, and overstated his writings. Some historians point to the fact that he was overstating for dramatic purposes. For example, he says that so much blood was shed in Jerusalem that streams of gore extinguished the fires that burned.

Josephus is also not consistent with numbers. For example, he says Mount Tabor is "thirty stadia" (18,200 feet), when in reality the mountain is only 1,920 feet. Exaggeration of numbers is very common to authors of that era.

Jesus, on the other hand, did not exaggerate or embellish.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Why would you say that? Are you putting Jesus, the King of Kings, on the same level as explorer Marco Polo or historian Josephus? Really?

Josephus wrote in the style of historians of his day. He commonly exaggerated, embellished, and overstated his writings. Some historians point to the fact that he was overstating for dramatic purposes. For example, he says that so much blood was shed in Jerusalem that streams of gore extinguished the fires that burned.

Josephus is also not consistent with numbers. For example, he says Mount Tabor is "thirty stadia" (18,200 feet), when in reality the mountain is only 1,920 feet. Exaggeration of numbers is very common to authors of that era.

Jesus, on the other hand, did not exaggerate or embellish.

Then how come He referred to the Ark if it didn't exist? As did Peter and the author of Hebrews.

 

[Archivist]

Then how come He referred to the Ark if it didn't exist? As did Peter and the author of Hebrews.

Already answered in Post 24.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Already answered in Post 24.

He was stating the flood narrative as fact as did Peter and Luke.