Myth, Fact, Parable

[Archivist]

He was stating the flood narrative as fact as did Peter and Luke.

Try reading Post 24 again.

 

[Eloy Craft]

The flood is historical. There are so many different cultures all over the world that have a world wide flood story preserved in their myth or religious tradition.
That is good evidence that it happened. That it happened before human population spread. It happened when mankind was still a small local population. If all people are in one area, a world wide flood doesn't have to mean the entire earth.
It is an event preserved in so many cultures iall around the world that some kind of catastrophic flood event that nearly wiped human life off the planet must have happened.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Try reading Post 24 again.

Mmmm... seems we have a basic disagreement.

 

[Archivist]

Mmmm... seems we have a basic disagreement.

This is a discussion and debate forum. Disagreements are expected.

 

[Sheila Davis]

The flood, the flood story was around 1000 years before abraham existed. There have been massive floods in human history. For a stone age people it would be the end of the world. Tells of those floods would have been emebleshed over the centries. Now according to the bible the flood happened no less that 4000 years ago and no longer than 5000 years ago, if you got technical and used all the biblical information 4300 years ago is the closest. Next the story say the waters were 20 feet over the tallest mountain even then Everest would have probably held that record. If you follow the bible exactly the flood would have covered the earth several miles above the surface. Now here is the real kicker the oldest human settlements and cities go back 10s of thousands of years. Such a flood have destroyed any evidence of the existance of humanity before the flood. Lets go to biology and the effects of inbreeding . The largest problem is many of the bible stories especially the flood story do not hold up under the Archeological, Geological, and Biological microscope. I can believe in god and I can believe the bible is book that is part history and part parable and myth. That does not threaten my belief in god, because I belive that Archeology, Astronomy, Biology, Geology all the sciences prove the existance of god. I believe the univeres is far to complex to have came about by chance. But I also know the anciet civilizations were ignorant of Archeology, Atronomy, Biology, Geology all the sciences as we know it today. I know the biblical flood story did not happen because there is no evidence of it...absolutly none. Now has every part of the planet been under water yes that is caused buy earthquake volcanoes tsunamies and floods. I swear if there was a line in the bible saying 1+1=3 and we know it equals two a large portion of Christianity would argue it. I am not threatened buy scientce and from were I am sitting many Christians are threatened by Archeology, Atronomy, Biology, Geology all the sciences.[/QUOTE

When humans uses the term the whole world they generally mean the people. When the subject is about people, when the term whole world is used shouldn't it mean people. 10,000 years ago u.s. sensors believed there was an estimated at the lowest a million at the highest 10 million people inhabiting the Earth. North America and South America had very few people if any. Much of Europe, Asia, Australia, Africa had a lot of unoccupied land. There was no need to flood all land masses when the purpose of the flood was to destroy the people who served the fallen angels and destroy The offspring of those angels. A misinterpretation / misunderstanding of what the term whole world means and teaching it in error.

When you look at the architecture and the accomplishments of the ancient they were not stupid people. Technology that has been given to men in the past 200 years was not available to them but they actually did a better job and maintaining the Earth. What they built last for centuries and they built things which man these days need machinery to do. They read the stars they knew astrology, God even warned them against it. They had knowledge of biology and geology, not to the degree that science has broken it down to these days _ shucks the majority of the people in the world today don't have knowledge of astrology, biology, and geology but they understand the concept in the principal.
Ancient Astronomy | Astronomy
Biology in the Ancient and Medieval Eras – Brewminate: A Bold Blend of News and Ideas
What is Geology? - Definition, History, Facts & Topics - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com
The Greeks were the first to write about that doesn't mean they were the first to study it and to live on the land one must study the land.
Throughout the ages people have changed names of inhabited places, named locations, even take names for their own areas. It is an estimated 427 years between the birth of Abraham and the flood of Noah - time enough for people to make whatever changes they choose of locations rename - for whatever purposes could have been conquering are people just left an area and others came in - written records is not something they had a need of and in many cases most had not acquired the skill of writing. It could have been any of the mountains in that area so named.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 7 - King James Version
The flood waters were 15 cubits high is what the water was said to be an estimated 23 feet.

15 Cubit to Foot Conversion Calculator - 15 cbt to ft
The floodwaters was 23 ft deep - how tall was those mountains - the Bible didn't say - but they had to be less than 23 ft high. and when you read scripture it actually use the word hills and one point.

Genesis 8 KJV - And God remembered Noah, and every - Bible Gateway
When the water crested the ark was in the mountains of Ararat - where?

Please show me in scripture where it says the Waters of the flood was taller than the highest mountain.
Mount Everest in the Himalayas? Wow, people didn't populate there until around estimated 1,500 BC
Himalayan People - Life in the Himalayas

Biblical timeline - is a good way to *estimate* the timing of events by the generations givens but one cannot say as a 100% absolute all generations are given. God allowed it so accepted.

 

[The Barbarian]

If the ark is found at say 14000 feet on Ararat what then?

The Bible doesn't say that the Ark landed on Mt. Ararat. It says "The mountains of Ararat", which is in Armenia. The mountain was named Ararat in historical times, not at the time of Noah.

 

[Sheila Davis]

How did I managed to write my reply on his thread? But I did! Yesterday the system keep cutting off now I see everything is wrote on his thread.

 

[Laconia79]

lol somone said the flood meant the known world in biblical times. Okay so the flood landed in the moutains of Arrat, 14000 feet that is almost 3 miles....the flood would have flattened mountains. I do not think the ancient people or many Chrisitants think about the type of damage a world wide flood would do.

 

[Sheila Davis]

lol somone said the flood meant the known world in biblical times. Okay so the flood landed in the moutains of Arrat, 14000 feet that is almost 3 miles....the flood would have flattened mountains. I do not think the ancient people or many Chrisitants think about the type of damage a world wide flood would do.

I'm curious how can flood waters flatten mountains?
I can only find that floodwaters help create mountains.

I am curious also what type of damage would that type of flood do?
Destroy homes, automobiles, electric poles, airfield, what existed in the ancient days in those said lands that would be so damaged. Surely nothing like today. There would be Dead trees, dead grass, it would grow back. Dead people, dead animals, marine life would have a field day and bodies decaying in water, which would be quick.
Who can say as an absolute those are the same mountains Noah was around - back in those days, 4000 years ago, the mountains didn't have a name...... When did they name the mountains Ararat - in the middle ages a source says - long after Moses...... The Bible begin to recognize it as a biblical mountain in the 11th century the same source says - why did the church take so long? ....... Again who is who can say is an absolute that is the mountains.

Mount Ararat - Wikipedia

Mount Ararat - Wikipedia
the middle ages began after the fall of Rome in the 5th century to around 1500 AD
Middle Ages | eHISTORY

Genesis 7:20 States 15 cubics of water - that indicates the mountains looked at today are not the mountains Noah was on.

Did you know it's one in South Africa named Ararat too - nor am I saying those ar the mountains.

 

[Laconia79]

I'm curious how can flood waters flatten mountains?
I can only find that floodwaters help create mountains.

I am curious also what type of damage would that type of flood do?
Destroy homes, automobiles, electric poles, airfield, what existed in the ancient days in those said lands that would be so damaged. Surely nothing like today. There would be Dead trees, dead grass, it would grow back. Dead people, dead animals, marine life would have a field day and bodies decaying in water, which would be quick.
Who can say as an absolute those are the same mountains Noah was around - back in those days, 4000 years ago, the mountains didn't have a name...... When did they name the mountains Ararat - in the middle ages a source says - long after Moses...... The Bible begin to recognize it as a biblical mountain in the 11th century the same source says - why did the church take so long? ....... Again who is who can say is an absolute that is the mountains.

Mount Ararat - Wikipedia

Mount Ararat - Wikipedia
the middle ages began after the fall of Rome in the 5th century to around 1500 AD
Middle Ages | eHISTORY

Genesis 7:20 States 15 cubics of water - that indicates the mountains looked at today are not the mountains Noah was on.

Did you know it's one in South Africa named Ararat too - nor am I saying those ar the mountains.

Big floods today or Tsunamis for excample, crush and destroy everything in there path. A worldwide flood would the ripped the earth apart. More importantly such a flood would have eradicated every prood of mans existance. If you follow the bible the flood happened a little over 4000 years ago...the pyramids were built 5000 years ago...the chinese culture goes back over 5000 years, the sumerians 6000 years. A worldwide flood have wiped it out. Then look at Noahs family...the problems from inbreeding if they were the only people on earth. Was there a flood that is probably the basis of the flood story yes. Every culture has a flood story. But a worldwide flood...no

 

[Sheila Davis]

Big floods today or Tsunamis for excample, crush and destroy everything in there path. A worldwide flood would the ripped the earth apart. More importantly such a flood would have eradicated every prood of mans existance. If you follow the bible the flood happened a little over 4000 years ago...the pyramids were built 5000 years ago...the chinese culture goes back over 5000 years, the sumerians 6000 years. A worldwide flood have wiped it out. Then look at Noahs family...the problems from inbreeding if they were the only people on earth. Was there a flood that is probably the basis of the flood story yes. Every culture has a flood story. But a worldwide flood...no

Ok

Ten six thousand years ago there was nothing in the path in the of an outburst of water to really be destroyed except trees. And the purpose was to destroy the people and The offspring of angels and whatever animals lived in the area had to suffer too.

The whole world means people - floods occurred wherever the people were and there were according to us sensors at the lowest and highest between 1 and 10 million. Nor were there people are many people in South America, if any and none in Antarctica or the Arctic They may find one fossil in the area that may indicate a human was there. Nor was all the lands in other parts of the world occupied.

The Bible doesn't give a timeline on when the flood occurred other than giving generations of people born. Nobody can say as an absolute all generations were known. After all records were not kept of any who was born or when. They didn't even have a form of writing until around 1,500 B.C.E. It was the interpreters who decided that it was 4/5000 years ago.

Inbreeding - Noah's three sons had three wives and the genes of those three wives was enough. Plus 1) man genetic crates are not contaminated like they are now. 2) God can change anything he so desires and make the unclean clean.
When you look at science who was the first homosapien, or the first Neanderthal or the first Homo erectus? How many evovled - did hundreds evolve at the same time? Inbreeding had to take place then.

And yes there are many flood stories most of them about an angry God who decided to destroy mankind but saved a handful of people. Stories passed down from generation to generation starting with Noah and his three sons as them and their offspring spread over the lands.
It can even be said but since the Bible is concerning Noah, the bible is only written about him and his family and Noah's line of descendants to Jesus. There were other lands where people were saved by God as indicated in Australian flood stories, Chinese flood stories, now it hard to find complete lists now but this give a bit concerning an angry God killing all the people.
A Flood of Myths and Stories

Flood Legends from the Americas, Part 3: Mexico to South America

Savana Stewart

15 FLOOD MYTHS SIMILAR TO THE STORY OF NOAH

So either the descendants of Noah past down the event of the flood from generation to generation as man spread throughout the land or God sent water and destroyed all the people where ever they lived and saved a few from each land.
There is a lot men don't know, there is a lot written and forgotten, and there is much in this world that man will never comprehend or believe. What some see as evidence others don't - what some believe others won't - that is the way of the whole wide world.

 

[Sheila Davis]

Big floods today or Tsunamis for excample, crush and destroy everything in there path. A worldwide flood would the ripped the earth apart. More importantly such a flood would have eradicated every prood of mans existance. If you follow the bible the flood happened a little over 4000 years ago...the pyramids were built 5000 years ago...the chinese culture goes back over 5000 years, the sumerians 6000 years. A worldwide flood have wiped it out. Then look at Noahs family...the problems from inbreeding if they were the only people on earth. Was there a flood that is probably the basis of the flood story yes. Every culture has a flood story. But a worldwide flood...no

Did you know research suggest this was once a water world?

Ancient Earth may have been a "water world" without any dry land

Was ancient Earth a water world? | Earth | EarthSky

1.5 billion-year-old Earth had water everywhere, but not one continent, study suggests

 

[BNR32FAN]

lol somone said the flood meant the known world in biblical times. Okay so the flood landed in the moutains of Arrat, 14000 feet that is almost 3 miles....the flood would have flattened mountains. I do not think the ancient people or many Chrisitants think about the type of damage a world wide flood would do.

Such a flood wouldn’t do any more damage to the world than God intended for it to do.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Big floods today or Tsunamis for excample, crush and destroy everything in there path. A worldwide flood would the ripped the earth apart. More importantly such a flood would have eradicated every prood of mans existance. If you follow the bible the flood happened a little over 4000 years ago...the pyramids were built 5000 years ago...the chinese culture goes back over 5000 years, the sumerians 6000 years. A worldwide flood have wiped it out. Then look at Noahs family...the problems from inbreeding if they were the only people on earth. Was there a flood that is probably the basis of the flood story yes. Every culture has a flood story. But a worldwide flood...no

I know, it’s a miracle ain’t it? How God could do all that and still not allow for those who refuse to believe to understand it, it surely is a miraculous event.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Did you know research suggest this was once a water world?

Ancient Earth may have been a "water world" without any dry land

Was ancient Earth a water world? | Earth | EarthSky

1.5 billion-year-old Earth had water everywhere, but not one continent, study suggests

Gives new meaning:

Genesis 1:2
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.


תֹ֙הוּ֙
ṯō-hū

וָבֹ֔הוּ
wā-ḇō-hū

תְה֑וֹם
ṯə-hō-wm;

 

[The Barbarian]

Jesus recognized the Flood as being historical in Matthew 24:37-39.

If Jesus mentions a parable, it changes it to a literal history? How so?

 

[Laconia79]

Gives new meaning:

Genesis 1:2
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.


תֹ֙הוּ֙
ṯō-hū

וָבֹ֔הוּ
wā-ḇō-hū

תְה֑וֹם
ṯə-hō-wm;

Man earthquakes, tsunamis, Volcanoes, plate tectonics...geology lol. These things have made every part of this planet under water at one time or another and will be again

 

[Sheila Davis]

Man earthquakes, tsunamis, Volcanoes, plate tectonics...geology lol. These things have made every part of this planet under water at one time or another and will be again

Water was first.........

Earth Has Water Older Than the Sun

Earth’s water is older than the Sun

The Earth and the sun are roughly the same age.........

How Old Is The Earth? - Universe Today


God did not tell man what he did to make things work the way that they do.
As is written in scripture the things that we see are not made of what we think they are.
God is the ultimate scientist !
Water destruction?????

 

[Cis.jd]

Now according to the bible the flood happened no less that 4000 years ago and no longer than 5000 years ago, if you got technical and used all the biblical information 4300 years ago is the closest.

5,000 years ago according to what specific book in the Bible?

I'm not going to argue whether or not the flood was indeed "worldwide", maybe a % was, maybe it was just the Mesopotamia area, or maybe the entire Noah story is all myth in where Noah wasn't an actual man but a representation of a number of people or something, I don't know. The whole "there is evidence/there is no evidence" is undeterminable to me. You'll have sites having various different info, all claiming to be factual. Christians will defend the historicity of it no matter what as well.

The only main thing I can say that sorta convinces me is that there are world wide stories/legends in every single country in the world, all of them date very far back in the BC area. They are all legends and myths because they involve various fictional things such as gods, spirits, etc.. but the common denominator is that there was a massive flood. Myths do have a core of truth in them, and the world did not have the communicational reach to just copy off story ideas, I think they all wrote these stories because it possibly did happen and people just made their artistic narratives (or assumptions) as to why it happened.