Mystery Bablyon...

ladylove · Sep 6, 2002

Originally posted by Patmosman_sga
Then you obviously don't know much. Your position can be summed up in that old cliche: "My mind's made up. Don't confuse me with the facts."

Yet, you invite further confusion by soliciting responses to your question which do not take historical context seriously and reject a priori any responses which do.

 

When you are so familiar with the truth, you can immediately recognize error.  You pal, espouse error.  Plain and simple.

I guess I can pick and choose what I agree with since this is MY thread, that is the originator's right.  Sorry.

 

isshinwhat · Sep 6, 2002

Christian Forums > Theology (for Christians only) > Eschatology > Mystery Bablyon...

When you are so familiar with the truth, you can immediately recognize error. You pal, espouse error. Plain and simple.

Then you obviously don't know much.

You promote heresy from what I know. Therefore, anything you state is suspect and not credible. Especially, when it relates to prophecy. A wolf among sheep and false teaching...the discerning know...

The Benedictine Monks at the Abbey I visited were the most gracious hosts I have ever encountered. I marvelled at their kindness and hospitality. I wondered where it came from, then I read one of the Rules of St. Benedict. It said, "Treat every guest, indeed everyone you meet as if they are Christ." I am sure that level of adherence to the rule didn't come naturally, that it required years of practice and patience learned by prayerfully living with the same men day after day. But I have witnessed the fruits of their labor in the Holy Spirit, and I am blessed for having seen it. Perhaps we could bring a little of that spirit here to rest, as well.

God Bless,

Neal

Pericles · Sep 6, 2002

Originally posted by ladylove
You promote heresy from what I know.  Therefore, anything you state is suspect and not credible.  Especially, when it relates to prophecy.  A wolf among sheep and false teaching...the discerning know...  

You are using the H word way too easily.  Heresy is a serious charge! On what grounds is he a heretic, when you could just as easily be one? 

Charges of heresy also make it rather easy for you to get out of an argument without providing one shred of scriptural evidence to defend your position (unlike this other user did). 

How rude and irresponsible of you to do this!!

Pericles · Sep 6, 2002

Originally posted by ladylove
 

When you are so familiar with the truth, you can immediately recognize error.  You pal, espouse error.  Plain and simple.

I guess I can pick and choose what I agree with since this is MY thread, that is the originator's right.  Sorry.

 

If you are so familiar with the truth, why then are you asking "who and what the mystery Babylon is?"  Are you doing it so that you can just point out the specks in other people's eyes? 

Any logical person that asks a question here should expect to encounter disagreement to some extent, even if it is YOUR thread.  For crying out loud...a "forum" is a place where people exchange ideas and concepts, not a place where agreeing on any topic is a requirement...

cougan · Sep 6, 2002

Maybe my post was to long for some of you to read so I just want to point out one thing about this great city. In Rev 11:7 it clearly states that Jesus was cruified there, and I think everyone knows what city he was crucified in.

ladylove · Sep 7, 2002

Look Perc,

When there is error, it MUST be pointed out. I do know the TRUTH and truth by its very nature is exclusive NOT inclusive. I did not say I know ALL truth, otherwise I would be God. But when you recongnize error as compared against the truth then Christians are obligated to correct. It is a duty or otherwise you will be held accountable. I am hard sided and it is hard to convey touchy feely thru only words on a keyboard. This as a result causes friction. Did Jesus have any friction during his ministry? I believe so it just goes with the territory. A hazard of the occupation.

There is no easy way to say "you are in error."

 

Brian45 · Sep 7, 2002

Originally posted by cougan
Maybe my post was to long for some of you to read so I just want to point out one thing about this great city. In Rev 11:7 it clearly states that Jesus was cruified there, and I think everyone knows what city he was crucified in.

I agree  :

Luke 13  -  <SUP>33</SUP>Nevertheless I must journey today, tomorrow, and the day following; for it cannot be that a prophet should perish outside of Jerusalem.

Pericles · Sep 7, 2002

Originally posted by ladylove
Look Perc,

When there is error, it MUST be pointed out. I do know the TRUTH and truth by its very nature is exclusive NOT inclusive. I did not say I know ALL truth, otherwise I would be God. But when you recongnize error as compared against the truth then Christians are obligated to correct. It is a duty or otherwise you will be held accountable. I am hard sided and it is hard to convey touchy feely thru only words on a keyboard. This as a result causes friction. Did Jesus have any friction during his ministry? I believe so it just goes with the territory. A hazard of the occupation.

There is no easy way to say "you are in error."

 

You are ignoring my point!  Just because someone is in error, it doesn't make them a Heretic.  This was the second time when I saw you calling someone else a heretic...apparently it is a habit, so you have to be called on it.  If you can't address the argument with evidence, at least accept the fact that you cannot carry out a civilized conversation.  There are many christians in error about many things, yet they are not all heretics.  Please don't lecure me about friction...I know how to handle friction...you apprently don't.

And who exactly authorized YOU to tell me or anyone else that we are in error?  I yet have to see any scripture from you that points our my error, yet I, and several other people, presented a lot of scripture to throw light upon YOUR error. 

Your opinion doesn't count...only Scripture does.  You posted seven posts in this thread so far, and you didn't provide ONE SINGLE biblical reference...NOT ONE!  Yet you have the nerve to take the high ground, as if you are a better christian than the rest of us, and call whoever disagrees with you a "heretic".  Let the Scripture speak!

ladylove · Sep 7, 2002

Perc,

You obviously do not understand what heresey is. But then that is your problem, not mine.

Pericles · Sep 7, 2002

Originally posted by ladylove
Perc,

You obviously do not understand what heresey is. But then that is your problem, not mine.

Why don't you enlighten us?

TheBear · Sep 7, 2002

To all Preterists posting in this forum:

Please adhear to forum rules, and specifically to what Erwin has outlined about this forum.

Click Here.

Any Preterists, who continue posting Preterist views, links, etc., in the Eschatology forum, will have their account suspended for two weeks.

Thank you for your cooperation.

John

Patmosman_sga · Sep 8, 2002

Are you implying that anyone who interprets "Mystery Babylon" as being primarily a reference to a first century entity is a preterist and, therefore, not allowed to post on this forum? That would be an incorrect assumption with an adverse effect on any serious exchange on this particular topic.

It is a sad fact that every time a serious conversation gets started here, someone finds it necessary to invoke the "no preterist" rule, even on those who are not preterists.

Pericles · Sep 8, 2002

Actually Patmosman, the question that should be asked is "How exactly do they know if a user is a 'preterist' anyways?" 

Or even better:

"How exactly do they know that a user is NOT a preterist?"

How about people that label themselves as "partial preterists", that still believe in a future coming of Christ, yet they believe that the first century had a significant relevance in the Parousia of Christ?

Ahh...you gotta the irony on this board: Christian Forums was established as a free, non-profit and non-denominational online Christian community to unite Christians of every denomination together as one body.  Should I understand that those users that espouse even traces of "preterism" are not considered by the administration of this forum to be christians?

Patmosman_sga · Sep 8, 2002

Originally posted by Pericles
You are using the H word way too easily.  Heresy is a serious charge! On what grounds is he a heretic, when you could just as easily be one? 

Charges of heresy also make it rather easy for you to get out of an argument without providing one shred of scriptural evidence to defend your position (unlike this other user did). 

How rude and irresponsible of you to do this!!

This is the same type of tactic political liberals use to avoid substantive discussions with political conservatives. In the political realm, liberals love to call conservatives "stupid" or "dumb," thus eliminating any need to respond to their ideas.

In theological discussions, it is all too easy for purveyors of doctrinal novelty to hurl the charge of "heresy" at anyone and everyone who does not subscribe to their party line. Ironically, the very ones who are so eager to invoke the "H" word are more often the ones who actually hold views which would, in the context of 2000 years of Apostolic Tradition, be considered somewhat aberrant.

Patmosman_sga · Sep 8, 2002

Originally posted by Pericles
Actually Patmosman, the question that should be asked is "How exactly do they know if a user is a 'preterist' anyways?" 

Or even better:

"How exactly do they know that a user is NOT a preterist?"

How about people that label themselves as "partial preterists", that still believe in a future coming of Christ, yet they believe that the first century had a significant relevance in the Parousia of Christ?

When you consider the narrow definition of eschatology espoused by so many who post here, it's easy to understand how they can also easily fall into the trap of narrowly defining such terms as "preterism" and "futurism."

Eschatology is a serious discipline, concerned with the question of how God in Christ has completed and will complete salvation on the individual, corporate and cosmic levels. It cannot be reduced to a cult-like obsession with "end times prophecy" and other incidentals taken way out of their historical and literary context. Neither "preterism" nor "futurism" looks at the whole picture, although preterists tend to be much more civil in hearing a critique of their position than do futurists.

The bottom line is, our hope for the future must be firmly grounded in what we know God has done in the past if we are to have any reason to live for Christ and his kingdom in the present.

Wolseley · Sep 8, 2002

Ladylove, Pericles and Patmosman:

It doesn't matter what the definition of a preterist is.

The point is that all posters are to strive to act in a Christlike manner towards each other, and that element is sorely lacking by several posters on this thread.

Even without taking into consideration Erwin's definitions above, there are still clear violations of the rules of the forum being exhibited here. For the benefit of one and all, I offer this refresher:

Rule No. 1 - No "Flaming"
You will not post any messages that harrass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself.

Rule No. 7 - No Public Disagreements with Staff
You will only disagree with the decisions of the Administrators or Moderators in private, either by email or private messaging, and never in a public forum. All decisions to edit, move or delete a post or thread are based on this set of rules listed here.

Number 1 has been violated by several people on this thread, and since Bear's post, there have been violations of Number 7 four times.

Please take some time to relax, reflect, and chill out. Do not attack other posters with flippant comments, and if you have problems with a message from a member of the Staff, then address it in an E-mail or a PM.

In other words, OBEY THE RULES OF THE FORUM. Posting here is a privilege, not a right. Continued violations will result in suspension of the offending posters.

We thank you for your co-operation.

----Wolseley, Christian Forums Administrator.

TheBear · Sep 8, 2002

If anyone has any questions about any staff decision or action, please adhear to forum rule# 7.

RULE #7
You will only disagree with the decisions of the Administrators or Moderators in private, either by email or private messaging, and never in a public forum. All decisions to edit, move or delete a post or thread are based on this set of rules listed here.

John

ladylove · Sep 9, 2002

I think the Mods have pretty well but this thread to rest. I submit to their authority.

armothe · Sep 9, 2002

I just hope it wasn't the Scripture I posted back in post #2 that started this thread into a tailspin.

-A

Pericles · Sep 9, 2002

Originally posted by ladylove
I think the Mods have pretty well but this thread to rest. I submit to their authority.

You are a preterist??

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