My YEC Evidence Challenge

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Actually it has EVERYTHING to do with what you were talking about.

The laws of science only go so far. But the Person of Jesus (the TRUTH) is not bound by physics or even logic. Indeed, if the bible is any indication, He operates on an entirely different logical framework.

It is called either Hebrew Block Logic or Adductive Logic.

Yet we're talking PURELY about science. This is subforum is about the discussion of science, not religion.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

But the Person of Jesus (the TRUTH) is not bound by physics or even logic.

So, I agree with this statement in that I don't find the character Jesus to be logical. That said, how could he be "the TRUTH" if he in fact isn't concordant with reality, the very definition of the word truth? This is an oxymoron of a definition.

This is why science and education struggle with the need for some religious folk to have literal interpretations of scripture in light of facts and evidence.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

You will someday ... that's a fact.

I'm still not convinced I will - no evidence that isn't any more convincing as any number of other mutually exclusive religious propositions, and there's even differing edicts within Christianity on scripture - which in itself is a credible argument against those professing 100% conviction...

 

[KWCrazy]

A fact is a bit of data that is indisputably correct. It's a fact that we exist. How we got here or why we exist are maters of speculation. Science can study things in the physical world that are easily seen, felt, heard, tasted or smelled. If it can be measured, science is on it. Some things, however, cannot be measured by the scientific method. Some things are supernatural in nature. Let's take Joe Demon. He's walked the earth for a few thousand years invisible to man. However as an existing being he is comprised of energy which can be observed by thermal image photography or infra red. These images are usually anomalies; frequently very hard to distinguish as anything other than orbs. This makes since because the entity has no physical body and with an orb energy is evenly massed from the center. We CAN capture fluctuations in energy fields. These energy fields can also draw heat energy, which explains why a room can suddenly chill.

The problem with studying the supernatural is that it is invisible. You never know where to point the instruments. You can't anticipate a visitation, so results are very inconsistent. There's no real way to move this study into the "hard science" realm because you can't study a passing fluctuation on heat energy in depth and conclude that it is anything more than an anomaly. Thus, paranormal investigation is given little credibility.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

A fact is a bit of data that is indisputably correct. It's a fact that we exist. How we got here or why we exist are maters of speculation. Science can study things in the physical world that are easily seen, felt, heard, tasted or smelled. If it can be measured, science is on it. Some things, however, cannot be measured by the scientific method. Some things are supernatural in nature. Let's take Joe Demon. He's walked the earth for a few thousand years invisible to man. However as an existing being he is comprised of energy which can be observed by thermal image photography or infra red. These images are usually anomalies; frequently very hard to distinguish as anything other than orbs. This makes since because the entity has no physical body and with an orb energy is evenly massed from the center. We CAN capture fluctuations in energy fields. These energy fields can also draw heat energy, which explains why a room can suddenly chill.

The problem with studying the supernatural is that it is invisible. You never know where to point the instruments. You can't anticipate a visitation, so results are very inconsistent. There's no real way to move this study into the "hard science" realm because you can't study a passing fluctuation on heat energy in depth and conclude that it is anything more than an anomaly. Thus, paranormal investigation is given little credibility.

Nonsense. We know a great deal about radio waves, black holes, quantum mechanics, etc. none of which we can see. If Joe Demon interacts with our reality as frequently as you say he does, he can be studied, we can learn things & we can eventually make predictive statements about him. Also, he would be a Natural phenomenon and no longer Supernatural.

 

[KWCrazy]

If Joe Demon interacts with our reality as frequently as you say he does, he can be studied, we can learn things & we can eventually make predictive statements about him. Also, he would be a Natural phenomenon and no longer Supernatural.

Oh, to the contrary.
The images are bountiful.
Ghosts
Orbs. Granted, most orbs in photography result from developer spots.
I can (and have) also create a ghost using a double exposure in film. However, that doesn't usually happen by accident with modern cameras.
With modern technology, any of these CAN be faked. But were they?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Oh, to the contrary.
The images are bountiful.
Ghosts
Orbs. Granted, most orbs in photography result from developer spots.
I can (and have) also create a ghost using a double exposure in film. However, that doesn't usually happen by accident with modern cameras.
With modern technology, any of these CAN be faked. But were they?

It's dust.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Oh, to the contrary.
The images are bountiful.
Ghosts
Orbs. Granted, most orbs in photography result from developer spots.
I can (and have) also create a ghost using a double exposure in film. However, that doesn't usually happen by accident with modern cameras.
With modern technology, any of these CAN be faked. But were they?

I have no reason to believe they weren't. Every time we've investigated the phenomenon scientifically, it hasn't turned up anything. So, as long as I maintain my critical faculties via methodological naturalism, ghosts likely won't ever be a problem. Same with Gods & Devils too for that matter. That's been my experience so far, I'm always open to the evidence though...

 

[KWCrazy]

It's dust.

Not all dust.
When my stepson was 15 he saw an orb. It was a glowing bluish color. It came in through an outside wall and hovered near the ceiling for a bit before exiting again. He and his friend both saw it. It scared the daylights out of them.
These things exist. Not all sightings are supernatural, but some are. Some have no other explanation.

 

[KWCrazy]

I have no reason to believe they weren't. Every time we've investigated the phenomenon scientifically, it hasn't turned up anything.

Exactly.
You can't examine the supernatural via natural means.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Exactly.
You can't examine the supernatural via natural means.

But if as you say it interacts with reality, then we can. Make up your mind!

 

[driewerf]

Really?

1. Was it a fact at one time that Phlogiston existed?

No

2. Was it a fact at one time that we had two moons?

No idea

3. Was it a fact at one time that Thalidomide was a prenatal wonder drug?

No

4. Was it a fact at one time that the Titanic was unsinkable?

No.

5. Was it a fact at one time that it was safe to go back into (or not leave) the Twin Towers? (A mistake that was repeated in L'Aquila, btw.)

yes. The 5th of September 2001, for example.

6. Was it a fact at one time that Pluto was our 9th planet?

Yes.

Can anyone answer any of these honestly YES or NO?

I did.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Not all dust.
When my stepson was 15 he saw an orb. It was a glowing bluish color. It came in through an outside wall and hovered near the ceiling for a bit before exiting again. He and his friend both saw it. It scared the daylights out of them.
These things exist. Not all sightings are supernatural, but some are. Some have no other explanation.

so, St. Elmo's Fire? From St. Elmo's fire - Wikipedia :

St. Elmo's fire is a bright blue or violet glow, appearing like fire in some circumstances, from tall, sharply pointed structures such as lightning rods, masts, spires and chimneys, and on aircraft wings or nose cones. St. Elmo's fire can also appear on leaves and grass, and even at the tips of cattle horns.[5] Often accompanying the glow is a distinct hissing or buzzing sound. It is sometimes confused with ball lightning.
​

And More! : http://gizmodo.com/scientists-have-recreated-st-elmos-fire-in-the-lab-1171146134 It's Amazing what the Scientific Method can accomplish...

 

[driewerf]

A fact is a bit of data that is indisputably correct. It's a fact that we exist. How we got here or why we exist are maters of speculation. Science can study things in the physical world that are easily seen, felt, heard, tasted or smelled.

Which excludes radio activity or magnetism.
Are radio activity or magnetism excluded from scientific investigation?

 

[KWCrazy]

But if as you say it interacts with reality, then we can. Make up your mind!

As I said, we have recordings but they are inconclusive, Many can be explained. Some cannot. There will never be conclusive, irrefutable evidence of the supernatural world in your lifetime. Most people will never believe in God until they meet Him. The only true way to find the Lord is to open your heart and truly seek him through faith. Proof will always have another explanation.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Not all dust.
When my stepson was 15 he saw an orb. It was a glowing bluish color. It came in through an outside wall and hovered near the ceiling for a bit before exiting again. He and his friend both saw it. It scared the daylights out of them.
These things exist. Not all sightings are supernatural, but some are. Some have no other explanation.

People have claimed many things that cannot be proven. There was a man who claimed that he was the Emperor of the United States.

 

[KWCrazy]

Which excludes radio activity or magnetism.
Are radio activity or magnetism excluded from scientific investigation?

No, but they are inconclusive.
You hear a voice in white noise say, "Get out."
The next person hears "Get up."
The next hears nothing.

 

[KWCrazy]

People have claimed many things that cannot be proven. There was a man who claimed that he was the Emperor of the United States.

I know. He just left office.

 

[driewerf]

No, but they are inconclusive.
You hear a voice in white noise say, "Get out."
The next person hears "Get up."
The next hears nothing.

I didn't heard voices when I studied radio activity.
i must have been doing something wrong.

Is radio activity excluded from scientific study?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

.. if the bible is any indication ...

Begging the question - the whole intent of the thread is to question that 'if'.