My wife's past

[Jon Osterman]

My wife is definitely not protecting our marriage. She is protecting herself from the natural consequences of her horrible and abusive disrespect to me. Your boilerplate pro-woman bias is obvious. Please start thinking outside of your narrow anti-male box before engaging me in a conversation next time.

So why are you so terrified of divorce? If she is so unpleasant, surely divorce would not be the worst thing to happen? As long as it is not you divorcing her, you would not be sinning.

I have had my wife threaten divorce a couple of times during arguments. (To be honest, they aren't really arguments because I just don't argue - they were more like rants.) So I just told her to go ahead and get the divorce papers drawn up if that is what she wants. She never does of course.

To the OP, I have some sympathy. I think this is the sin that is central to the parable of the Prodigal Son. I, like the older brother, always feel intensly annoyed that the father accepts the prodigal son back into the family after he had been away carrousing. All the father's love and joy is lavished on the son who had been bad, and the older good son is neglected. When I was younger I never got this parable because I thought the sin was the sin of the prodigal son who had been away partying. But as I got older I realised that the sin of import to the story is really the older son's resentment of his younger brother. He is jealous that the younger son got to have "fun" and still gets his father's love.

But really thinking like the older son demonstrated an inconsistency of your belief. If the behaviours of the younger son when he was away were sinful, then they separated him from God, and thus were not "fun", but ultimately distructive and harmful. The older son should not be jealous of the younger son at all because the time he was away was actually bad - he was separated from God.

So, to the OP I ask, why are you jealous of your wife's earlier life? Would you really have taken pleasure yourself in such sinful behaviour? Your wife's previous immoral behaviours separated her from God and were ultimately harmful, and your refusal to recognise this is what is causing you so much trouble.

 

[Guy Incognito]

My wife is definitely not protecting our marriage. She is protecting herself from the natural consequences of her horrible and abusive disrespect to me. Your boilerplate pro-woman bias is obvious. Please start thinking outside of your narrow anti-male box before engaging me in a conversation next time.

Nothing in their comment was directly/visibly/inherently "anti-male" (and there wasn't anything suggesting it was "pro-female" view either).

 

[Ricky3369]

So why are you so terrified of divorce? If she is so unpleasant, surely divorce would not be the worst thing to happen? As long as it is not you divorcing her, you would not be sinning.

I have had my wife threaten divorce a couple of times during arguments. (To be honest, they aren't really arguments because I just don't argue - they were more like rants.) So I just told her to go ahead and get the divorce papers drawn up if that is what she wants. She never does of course.

To the OP, I have some sympathy. I think this is the sin that is central to the parable of the Prodigal Son. I, like the older brother, always feel intensly annoyed that the father accepts the prodigal son back into the family after he had been away carrousing. All the father's love and joy is lavished on the son who had been bad, and the older good son is neglected. When I was younger I never got this parable because I thought the sin was the sin of the prodigal son who had been away partying. But as I got older I realised that the sin of import to the story is really the older son's resentment of his younger brother. He is jealous that the younger son got to have "fun" and still gets his father's love.

But really thinking like the older son demonstrated an inconsistency of your belief. If the behaviours of the younger son when he was away were sinful, then they separated him from God, and thus were not "fun", but ultimately distructive and harmful. The older son should not be jealous of the younger son at all because the time he was away was actually bad - he was separated from God.

So, to the OP I ask, why are you jealous of your wife's earlier life? Would you really have taken pleasure yourself in such sinful behaviour? Your wife's previous immoral behaviours separated her from God and were ultimately harmful, and your refusal to recognise this is what is causing you so much trouble.

The obtuseness of this response is mind boggling. This has nothing to do with jealousy of her past life. It has to do with being robbed of the choice as to whether I wanted to take on the deep sexual and relational dysfunction that she brought secretly into the marriage. It has to do with the injustice of the verbal abuse inherent in a divorce threat with no biblical grounds as a way of manipulating and controlling me. To use the prodigal son analogy, this is not me being jealous of the forgiveness and grace shown toward the prodigal son. This is the prodigal heaping verbal abuse and threats on the son who stayed home after being given that grace. Get a clue, already.

 

[Ricky3369]

The methods, observations and philosophies that I've been describing to you were developed by a man. My husband and I carefully apply them to our marriage. We are still as star struck with each other as we were initially. We refer to our anniversaries as how many years long our honeymoon has been. I just asked him if he could see an anti-male, pro-woman bias in me, and he was astonished to hear someone thought so.

Because of my obviously and gloriously happy marriage as well as my extensive study on the topic, other couples have approached me for help so they can overcome their marital unhappiness. Never has any husband accused me of being anti-male or pro-woman.

I am vigorously pro-marriage and therefore, out of care for all marriages, I talk straight to the person approaching me for help (except in cases of a person receiving abusive behavior such that their safety, whether emotional or physical, is in question). Well, I do talk straight to them, too, about how they need to either get out of there or change the locks until the other person is willing to change their behavior and provide a safe partnership.

On the other hand, your narrative is very much pro-Ricky. But it's more than that. It's pro-Ricky's distorted perceptions and assumptions. It has been hard to read because I hear so much pain in your words, but I also sense that you are closed off to see things outside of your now cynical world view.

It's a path I also had to travel the hard way, and there's not much anyone can do to help you look outside of your viewpoint until you are ready for it. I spent several years identifying and dissecting the filters I was suffering under from the other extreme end of the complimentarian theology you describe. I was taught I had to submit to abuse, without sinning by having 'bitterness' about it, and perhaps if I suffered beautifully enough some day my suffering might be sanctified to my abusive husband's salvation. I endured under that for 25 years until my health broke down and my body could not suffer any further. That was my first marriage. Even my patriarchal pastor finally told me I could not endure it any further. But then the same pastor almost excommunicated me several months ago for not submitting to my spiritual authority (him) since I am a woman, so yea, he's not pro-woman at all. Can you see that there is a different - and valid - perspective from a woman's point of view to twisting the gender doctrines that are also entrapping you?

When you are ready to consider that your behaviors may be affecting your marriage, check out the guidance forum on marriagebuilders.com It is staffed by seasoned, trained volunteers under the supervision of Dr. Harley. They provide step by step help to people ready to change their behaviors to turn their marriages around. Dr. Harley is personally available for comment or help as needed. He posts his whole knowledge base and runs his forum all for free, as a ministry to help others benefit from his studies and successes in helping couples stay in love.

Are you getting a commission from Doctor Harley?

 

[Ricky3369]

Ricky, your post was a lot to take in. You see women as the victors in the complimentary philosophy as you described it, but I can assure you there is a perspective from our shoes where we are by far the biggest losers in the whole scheme.

As for those sermons you reference on what submission is not - I never heard such a thing. I've only heard sermons about all the submission required of women to their 'spiritual authority'. We are told to be subject to both our husband and also besides him, to our fathers, to our pastors, etc. My pastor had even picked the "wives submit yourselves" verse from Ephesians 5 for my wedding ceremony because he had the sense that I might not be in a submissive enough frame of mind.

The damage done to both men and women with extreme and sacrificial positions demanded by complimentarianism of either the men (as you described) or the women (as I experienced) are very damaging to the losing party.

Since you read my link I thought it only right that I read yours. The Atlantic piece was a hard article to get through since I couldn't identify with any of it. I've been a full time career woman and mother of many children for 30 years. Sometimes when I was grocery shopping people would ask me if I had a daycare. None of the excuses the Atlantic author relates hit home with me, even as busy or demanding as my career was, nor as busy as my home was. When my kids were teenagers I could have 8, sometimes more, taxi mom errands in one evening while waiting for them to get their licenses - after working all day. I didn't hire housekeepers or cooks, so there was that going on too.

The reasons in the article felt to be more of a cover for an emotionally disconnected relationship. **When** I felt an emotional connection to my husband I was just as eager for a physical connection as he was. Being in love is like an addiction; you almost always have a spare burst of energy to indulge an addiction.

Regardless of whether you agree with Dr. Harley's suggestion that mismatched sexual drives is a problem going back to ancient times, what did you think of his methodical solution? It is derived from the study of 10,000's of marriages and of what worked for the ones stayed in love and what failed for the others.

Also, this:

is a disrespectful judgement. You're assuming to know her mind where, according to your comment, she has not explicitly said so. You're poisoning your viewpoint with toxic assumptions. It's likely her heart will break just as painfully as yours will if your marriage disintegrates.

Your response is replete with false assumptions starting with the ludicrous claim that my wife is trying to "protect the marriage." She is the one with her finger poised on the nuclear button. Your lack of any semblance of compassion for me and your automatic defense of a woman you know nothing about except what I say is where I get the pro-woman bias. I have seen countless web sites where wives pour their hearts out about their grievances against their husbands. NO ONE EVER COMES TO THE DEFENSE OF THE HUSBANDS.

In our church, our pastor glossed over submission when preaching Ephesians 5. In fact, he quoted the passage but did not teach the passage about submission. He went into excruciating detail about the extent to which a husband is responsible for loving unconditionally and sacrificially. No examples were given about the sacrifice of submission. No examples were given of where women have specific sin problems unique to their sex. But the 90% of the sermon devoted to husbands was a beat down. All of the "man up" and "step up" and "act like a man" stuff in the church is designed to keep from having to admit that there is a very good reason why nearly 60% of the congregations in the evangelical church are women. David Murrow has talked about it in his book Why Men Hate Going to Church. (https://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Hate-Going-Church/dp/078523215X).

Our women's ministry also never takes up biblical submission either. They never talk about taking care of the husband's needs. They are like a self-help self-esteem cult for women (Dear Women's Ministry, Stop Telling Me I'm Beautiful - Phylicia Masonheimer). Meanwhile, the men's ministries are all about servant leadership, sexual purity, and porn accountability. I guess biblical headship sounds too patriarchal and potentially abusive so we have morphed it into "servant leadership."

 

[Endeavourer]

Are you getting a commission from Doctor Harley?

So this is your best response to all of the time I spent helping you yesterday?

Did you have anything to say about the actual advice I provided, which was based on how my marriage does things differently with the outcome of a very happy and joyful marriage? One where my husband's needs have become synonymous with my own and are met with excitement and care, frequently?

I'm getting a better idea of the problems your wife is having in the marriage.

 

[Endeavourer]

NO ONE EVER COMES TO THE DEFENSE OF THE HUSBANDS.

I do. Did you remember this paragraph?

He told me to get over myself and that I wasn't going to die without sex.

This is why many marriage counselors, surprisingly, are often entirely unsuccessful at saving marriages. This is really terrible advice. I wish you could get your money back.

I am not defending your wife or you. My defense is of your marriage. It is not working now. You are not getting your needs met and she is likely quite unhappy. Clearly something has to change.

My advice, if you would read it pragmatically instead of defensively, will point you in a better direction.

Your lack of any semblance of compassion for me

I'm a busy person with a demanding job. The time I took to post to you was only because I could see an insight into your problem and it was entirely because of the compassion I had for you. I'm not defending your wife. You are here and she is not. I can't help her, but there are things you can change.

In our church, our pastor glossed over submission when preaching Ephesians 5. In fact, he quoted the passage but did not teach the passage about submission. He went into excruciating detail about the extent to which a husband is responsible for loving unconditionally and sacrificially. No examples were given about the sacrifice of submission. No examples were given of where women have specific sin problems unique to their sex. But the 90% of the sermon devoted to husbands was a beat down. All of the "man up" and "step up" and "act like a man" stuff in the church is designed to keep from having to admit that there is a very good reason why nearly 60% of the congregations in the evangelical church are women. David Murrow has talked about it in his book Why Men Hate Going to Church. (https://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Hate-Going-Church/dp/078523215X).

This is very damaging, and even depraved theology. It gives you NO tools whatsoever to fix the problems. Sacrificial misery in a marriage is not efficacious and it is NOT the desire of the Lord. He desires our marriages to be a reflection of his relationship to his bride. A great resource that helped me de-program from depraved gender theology was cryingoutforjustice.com. It deals with sacrificial suffering of either gender. The preponderance of posters on that site are women who have suffered abuse at the other extreme of the theology, but there are some men coming from your position as well. There is great compassion for both perspectives. It also has a section to help untwist these depraved filters we unknowingly carry on the scriptures that are used unBiblically to badger both parties into miser.y

I guess biblical headship sounds too patriarchal and potentially abusive so we have morphed it into "servant leadership."

Did you know that the word "headship" is not in the Bible? There is an AWFUL lot of awful theology baed on a word that the Lord never used.

PS: No, I don't get a commission from cryingoutforjustice.com, either. ...lol.

 

[Endeavourer]

Our women's ministry also never takes up biblical submission either. They never talk about taking care of the husband's needs.

If you want a joyful and wonderful marriage, this is the main verse on Biblical submission:
==>Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

The logic breaks down if you take the following verses out of context. If only wives have to submit then only husbands have to love. All of those verses will not function without the mutuality headlined in 5:21. There has to be love by both, and submission by both.

What husband wants a wife who submits to him flawlessly without love? In the vein of the problem we started discussing, for example, getting your needs met 2x a day with an unresponsive and unloving wife is not going to make you any happier.

 

[Endeavourer]

Practically speaking, how does mutual submission work? What is the methodology?

Here:
The Giver & Taker (Marriage Builders®)
The Policy of Joint Agreement (Marriage Builders®)

 

[Tropical Wilds]

The obtuseness of this response is mind boggling. This has nothing to do with jealousy of her past life. It has to do with being robbed of the choice as to whether I wanted to take on the deep sexual and relational dysfunction that she brought secretly into the marriage. It has to do with the injustice of the verbal abuse inherent in a divorce threat with no biblical grounds as a way of manipulating and controlling me. To use the prodigal son analogy, this is not me being jealous of the forgiveness and grace shown toward the prodigal son. This is the prodigal heaping verbal abuse and threats on the son who stayed home after being given that grace. Get a clue, already.

So you demand forgiveness and grace... On a scale of 1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest, how much forgiveness and grace are you extending to her?

 

[Endeavourer]

@Ricky3369

I get that you are angry. I understand why.

However, the anger will not get you anywhere.

When you are angry you stop thinking straight. The Bible repeatedly states than an angry man is a fool (strong language!), and it's referencing this very fact.

Anger is a decision, and you must lay down your anger so you can engage pragmatic, strategic thought. Until you do this you will not be making good use of the real estate God gave you between your ears.

 

[Sparagmos]

Willard F. Harley, Jr., PhD - "Receiving the sex a husband needs in marriage is as common a problem today as it was two thousand years ago. And as is the case with most ageless problems, the issue is definitely complicated."

This problem is not ageless and the comparison he makes to Corinth is deeply flawed. The Apostle Paul was responding to the prevalence of the gnostic heresy that said that sex within marriage was bad because the spiritual is all that matters and the physical is evil. Our current church culture is influenced by feminism and modern technology that frees wives from household work and empowers them to be economically self sufficient. This swings the power decidedly in the wife's direction and away from husbands. Combined with no-fault divorce and the high rates of child custody given to wives, husbands have lost enormous leverage in their marriages over the past 50 years and this translates into having to beg for sex. The "wifely duty" is extinct (The Wifely Duty - The Atlantic). The church has been emasculated as well. Husbands are lectured from the pulpit about showing sacrificial love to their wives to the point of being willing to die for them. Wives are not told what submission means but told what it does not mean. Submission is a dirty word and pastors avoid it like the plague.

Telling husbands they have to negotiate the existence of sex is like telling wives they are required to persuade their husbands to work and provide for their families. If a wife isn't sufficiently submissive, is a husband allowed to withhold love? Of course not. Husbands are commanded to provide for their families. Wives are commanded to take good care of the home. Both are commanded to give their bodies frequently and freely for sex. NO NEGOTIATION IS REQUIRED. It is supposed to happen. Willingly, lovingly, givingly.

I understand that creating the context of emotional intimacy is a good strategy for improving my sex life. I think Harley is wrong that wives view sex as physical + emotional and husbands view it as physical only. That is an antiquated stereotype that is itself based on the gnostic heresy that says that the physical is inferior to the emotional and, by implication, male sexuality is morally inferior to female sexuality. This is the moral context that rationalizes making husbands negotiate for sex. Mutual giving is necessary. But that is not the same as saying there is no conjugal right. Sex is every bit as much a right for her as it is for me. It is every bit as much my responsibility to satisfy her sexual needs as it is her responsibility to satisfy mine. But not wanting sex at all is not a "sexual need."

Of course, I say nothing of this to my wife. She says she is not an analytical person so I don't bring this up. But she implicitly understands the superior strength of her position. Why else would she so cavalierly use divorce as a weapon to end arguments if she didn't implicitly understand that she had far less to lose than I did?

When the “wifely duty” was the norm, many didn’t even believe that women had [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Men didn’t know where the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] was. No one was teaching that it was a husband’s duty to satisfy his wife with multiple [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], which all women are capable of. Men forced sex on their wives even when she said “no.” Clearly, those arcane ideas didn’t make for a good sex life. No surprise that your marriage is failing.

 

[Dave-W]

When the “wifely duty” was the norm, many didn’t even believe that women had [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Men didn’t know where the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] was. No one was teaching that it was a husband’s duty to satisfy his wife with multiple [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], which all women are capable of. Men forced sex on their wives even when she said “no.” Clearly, those arcane ideas didn’t make for a good sex life. No surprise that your marriage is failing.

From circa 400 bc to 1900 ad, western medicine taught that women had no sex drive or feelings whatsoever; they were completely passive receptacles of male sexuality.

 

[Deidre32]

The obtuseness of this response is mind boggling. This has nothing to do with jealousy of her past life. It has to do with being robbed of the choice as to whether I wanted to take on the deep sexual and relational dysfunction that she brought secretly into the marriage. It has to do with the injustice of the verbal abuse inherent in a divorce threat with no biblical grounds as a way of manipulating and controlling me. To use the prodigal son analogy, this is not me being jealous of the forgiveness and grace shown toward the prodigal son. This is the prodigal heaping verbal abuse and threats on the son who stayed home after being given that grace. Get a clue, already.

I think you've been done a disservice in your marriage, for sure. But, I've been thinking about ''missions'' lately, and how we often seek to evangelize and witness to those in faraway countries, and prisons, and somewhere outside of our immediate circles. Truth is, sometimes, the mission field is our own marriage. Our own family. This might just be yours.

 

[Ricky3369]

So you demand forgiveness and grace... On a scale of 1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest, how much forgiveness and grace are you extending to her?

Quite a lot, actually, although I consider putting a number to it a pointless gimmick.

When she revealed her past abortions I thanked her for admitting it and urged her to join the abortion recovery group at church. I prayed for her and hoped that the group would help her address the damage it had done to our marriage but, sadly, it only addressed the damage it did to her self-esteem and her relationship with God. I was treated as irrelevant during her healing process because I was not part of her life when she had the abortions. And there are no ministries to the husbands of post-abortive women, although there is one ministry for the fathers of the aborted children.

I hoped that being gracious would soften her heart toward me and help her forgive me for our financial problems. No such luck. I grew up in a family that understood boundaries around what you were allowed to say during an argument. There were rules. One rule was that you deal with the issue at hand and you don't throw historical grievances into the discussion or make threats. Sadly, she continued to use threats as a way of dealing with conflict and I shut down and now I say nothing that will get me in trouble.

So my wife has no idea the extent of my pain related to this issue because I don't want to create more problems than we already have. I was hoping our marriage counselor would provide a safe space for me to vent but, sadly, he was too busy playing wife's advocate to see the pain I was in. He told me I didn't really need sex because I wasn't going to die without it and then shut down discussion on the issue of sex entirely. After 3 months and $1200, I ended the counseling for financial reasons without having our sex life improved one bit and my wife newly empowered by the counselor to treat sex as a needless distraction from the truly important things in life. "You're not going to die without it" is now her go-to response when I start expressing my frustrations. Thanks Christian Counselor!

 

[Deidre32]

So the summary of this thread is that you are basically the ideal husband, and you feel that you're a victim?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Quite a lot, actually, although I consider putting a number to it a pointless gimmick.

So... 5 or less.

When she revealed her past abortions I thanked her for admitting it and urged her to join the abortion recovery group at church. I prayed for her and hoped that the group would help her address the damage it had done to our marriage but, sadly, it only addressed the damage it did to her self-esteem and her relationship with God. I was treated as irrelevant during her healing process because I was not part of her life when she had the abortions. And there are no ministries to the husbands of post-abortive women, although there is one ministry for the fathers of the aborted children.

So addressing the damage she’s experienced to her self-esteem and her relationship with God is fundamental to repairing the marriage. A non-functional person cannot have a functional relationship with anybody, much less a spouse. I don’t think that anybody is saying you’re irrelevant to her recovery, only that the focus at that time is on her and her trauma.

Now, not feeling properly supported or like you have an outlet for your concerns is a legitimate complaint. This is where one-on-one therapy or counseling can be really useful. You can take the time where she’s rebuilding her to focus on rebuilding you. Better understanding of yourself and investing in repairing the parts you need help with individually will only help later on. Her keeping that level of information to herself absolutely is a betrayal of sorts, intentional or otherwise, and it only makes sense for you to seek help to process it all.

I hoped that being gracious would soften her heart toward me and help her forgive me for our financial problems. No such luck. I grew up in a family that understood boundaries around what you were allowed to say during an argument. There were rules. One rule was that you deal with the issue at hand and you don't throw historical grievances into the discussion or make threats. Sadly, she continued to use threats as a way of dealing with conflict and I shut down and now I say nothing that will get me in trouble.

But don’t you see that you’re doing the same thing to her? You clearly haven’t extended unconditional grace and forgiveness (and that’s totally rational), but I suspect her unwillingness to forgive and bring up the past directly mirrors what she’s experiencing from you.

You also need to let go of this thing where you dictate the terms of arguments and declare her bringing up things that are still hurting her as unfair. The solution isn’t to shut her up because you’re tired of hearing about it, create random rules to dictate what can and can’t be talked about, it’s to listen and try to resolve it. Otherwise it’s going to keep coming up.

So my wife has no idea the extent of my pain related to this issue because I don't want to create more problems than we already have. I was hoping our marriage counselor would provide a safe space for me to vent but, sadly, he was too busy playing wife's advocate to see the pain I was in. He told me I didn't really need sex because I wasn't going to die without it and then shut down discussion on the issue of sex entirely. After 3 months and $1200, I ended the counseling for financial reasons without having our sex life improved one bit and my wife newly empowered by the counselor to treat sex as a needless distraction from the truly important things in life. "You're not going to die without it" is now her go-to response when I start expressing my frustrations. Thanks Christian Counselor!

Not saying what your issues are doesn’t prevent problems, it creates them. I mean, your issues aren’t being addressed. Nothing is being served.

As for the Christian counselor, let’s walk through this... She made a huge confession, you persuaded her to get help for her trauma, when she went to a counselor to get that trauma addressed you were upset that the focus wasn’t you, then stopped her treatment after three sessions and resent that nothing got fixed... I mean... You see the mixed messages and confusion and hurt this creates?

Imagine your wife had her arm broken and after years of trying to treat it herself, you tell her to go to the ER. She goes and after she meets with the doctor who’s going to set her arm and evaluates her injury, at which point you bring up your twisted ankle... Then get upset when the doctor won’t stop focusing on her arm to deal with your ankle. You call the doctor incompetent, her selfish, and you make her leave the hospital... But are still furious that she’s complaining about her arm and your ankle still hurts.

This is exactly what you did with regards to her issues.

The thing is you’re too emotional to realize doctor wasn’t saying your injury wasn’t unimportant or you didn’t matter, he was just saying that you came to get her help and that’s what he was focusing on and she needed to be triaged for first treatment. If you wanted to receive the same level of care for your issues, the solution was not to deprive her of her treatment, it was to seek your own specialized treatment. You’re right and valid to want that for yourself.

You have to extend two things more freely than you are... Time and forgiveness. There is no overnight solution here. There’s no 7 day solution. There’s probably not even a 7-month solution. It’s a process that will evolve through the course of your marriage. That’s what all of us experience in all of our marriage... Evolution of experiences and needs and problems and solutions.

 

[Ricky3369]

So the summary of this thread is that you are basically the ideal husband, and you feel that you're a victim?

No

When the “wifely duty” was the norm, many didn’t even believe that women had [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Men didn’t know where the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] was. No one was teaching that it was a husband’s duty to satisfy his wife with multiple [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], which all women are capable of. Men forced sex on their wives even when she said “no.” Clearly, those arcane ideas didn’t make for a good sex life. No surprise that your marriage is failing.

Use of the term "wifely duty" by the author is meant to draw eyeballs to a far more nuanced article than you cared to read, which you obviously didn't. Read the article and figure out the point the author was making and then your comments might make sense.

 

[Ricky3369]

As for the Christian counselor, let’s walk through this... She made a huge confession, you persuaded her to get help for her trauma, when she went to a counselor to get that trauma addressed you were upset that the focus wasn’t you, then stopped her treatment after three sessions and resent that nothing got fixed

No, she got help through an abortion recovery group at church. The counseling occurred later after it became obvious that her attitude toward me did not improve and our relationship was not healed by her getting help. She already had the help. Now it was time to deal with us.

We did not stop the counseling after three sessions. Read closer. I said $1200 and 3 months, which was 12 sessions. That was plenty of time to deal with my concerns about our sex life and other issues.

You see the mixed messages and confusion and hurt this creates?

What hurt are you talking about? What confusion are you talking about? The only confusion is that you are a very poor reader which is being confirmed by the fact that you are misquoting me and misunderstanding very clearly written content.

I was the one who initiated counseling because of the issues I was having with our sex life and other aspects of our relationship. I needed to know if my wife was dealing with intimacy anorexia as a result of being post-abortive, which can be a possible side-effect. Sadly, our counselor did not refer us to a more well-informed counselor who had experience in this area. He took us on and completely botched it. I was willing to pay the money because I thought it would help. It ended up causing more problems then it solved and I am angry because my concerns were treated like they didn't matter.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

No, she got help through an abortion recovery group at church. The counseling occurred later after it became obvious that her attitude toward me did not improve and our relationship was not healed by her getting help. She already had the help. Now it was time to deal with us.

So, I say again, she went to counseling to help deal with her abortion and her feelings from it, but because it didn’t help you, you call it a failure...?

We did not stop the counseling after three sessions. Read closer. I said $1200 and 3 months, which was 12 sessions. That was plenty of time to deal with my concerns about our sex life and other issues.

Based on your expert opinion and training, 12 sessions over 3 months was enough to “cure” her decades worth of trauma? That’s amazing! Sometimes people need years and years to overcome trauma and relearn how to live in a healthy mindset.

What’s the name of your doctor? I have anxiety and panic disorder after being diagnosed with Crohn’s and it triggered PTSD from a sexual assault 20 years ago... I’ve been going to therapy for years to make strides in my recovery... Little did I know there’s a therapist who can cure things in 12 sessions! I’m kind of excited!

What hurt are you talking about? What confusion are you talking about? The only confusion is that you are a very poor reader which is being confirmed by the fact that you are misquoting me and misunderstanding very clearly written content.

I was the one who initiated counseling because of the issues I was having with our sex life and other aspects of our relationship. I needed to know if my wife was dealing with intimacy anorexia as a result of being post-abortive, which can be a possible side-effect. Sadly, our counselor did not refer us to a more well-informed counselor who had experience in this area. He took us on and completely botched it. I was willing to pay the money because I thought it would help. It ended up causing more problems then it solved and I am angry because my concerns were treated like they didn't matter.

You do realize that the therapist isn’t a garage for wives, right? You don’t drop them off and say “make her have sex with me,” pick them up the next week, and then demand a refund because your wife is still not not excited to be intimate with you...

As I said, and I will say again, if you are an “intimacy anorexic” to her in your daily life and how you treat her, she will develop a case of “intimacy anorexia” towards you sexually. You say she’s traumatized by an abortion, but you don’t want her to get help for it, you want her to get help with how to have sex with you anyway. Not just sex, but enthusiastic sex that she’s into and makes you feel good.

You see the disconnect?