my take on what would be helpful with guns

[JosephZ]

I thought we were meaning school shootings real ones not shootings that happen to happenn on school grounds, but either have nothing to do with schools or are targeted.

You didn't specify school shootings in your comment.

and we are better than 2/3 in which tells me that mass shootings are rare in comparision to the NUMBER of gun deaths.

By the way, all of the shootings that took place on school grounds were "real ones."

 

[dogs4thewin]

You didn't specify school shootings in your comment.


By the way, all of the shootings that took place on school grounds were "real ones."

Nope I define a real "school shooting" as one like this where a person actually randomly shoots up a school NOT a shooting that happens to happen on school grounds after hours or otherwise when school is not being held, nor as one where a person targets a person or two over some personal beef.

 

[BPPLEE]

A simple google search shows that this case was covered by the national and international media, but this incident didn't involve guns and wasn't an officer involved shooting, so it's really not on topic.

The media pick and choose which stories they will cover. The one I featured pales in comparison to George Floyd and they pick which shootings they will cover

 

[JosephZ]

Nope I define a real "school shooting" as one like this where a person actually randomly shoots up a school NOT a shooting that happens to happen on school grounds after hours or otherwise when school is not being held, nor as one where a person targets a person or two over some personal beef.

That may be how you define a school shooting, but below are some of the more common definitions:

Encyclopedia Britannica

An event in which a student at an educational institution—an elementary, middle, or high school or a college or university—shoots and injures or kills at least one other student or faculty member on the grounds of that institution.

Gun Violence Archive

An incident that occurs on school property when students, faculty and/or staff are on the premises. Intent during those times are not restricted to specific types of shootings. Incidents that take place on or near school property when no students or faculty/staff are present are not considered "school shootings."

Everytown for Gun Safety

Any time a firearm discharges a live round inside a school building or on a school campus or grounds. Its database includes incidents when no one was injured; attempted or completed suicide, with no intent to injure others; and cases when a gun was fired unintentionally, resulting in injury or death.

K-12 School Shooting Database

...when a gun is fired, brandished (pointed at a person with intent), or bullet hits school property, regardless of the number of victims, time, day, or reason.

Proposed Federal Government Definition

The term “school shooting” means an event or occurrence—

(A) during which one or more individuals were injured or killed by a firearm; and

(B) that occurred—

(i) in, or on the grounds of, a school, even if before or after school hours;

(ii) while the victim was traveling to or from a regular session at school; or

(iii) while the victim was attending or traveling to or from an official school sponsored event.

 

[JosephZ]

The media pick and choose which stories they will cover.

This is true.

The one I featured pales in comparison to George Floyd and they pick which shootings they will cover

The reason George Floyd received so much media coverage is because of the protests that immediately followed his death. Had it not been for the protests, George Floyd would have just been another statistic like Edward Bronstein.

 

[BPPLEE]

This is true.


The reason George Floyd received so much media coverage is because of the protests that immediately followed his death. Had it not been for the protests, George Floyd would have just been another statistic like Edward Bronstein.

The race of the officer and the victim ensured that it would not be just another statistic and the news coverage led to the protests

 

[JosephZ]

The race of the officer and the victim ensured that it would not be just another statistic and the news coverage led to the protests

You've got it backward. The protests started almost immediately after George Floyd was killed at the intersection where he died. It was the protests that led to the national news coverage of his death.

 

[BPPLEE]

You've got it backward. The protests started almost immediately after George Floyd was killed at the intersection where he died. It was the protests that led to the national news coverage of his death.

The protests couldn’t have grown as large as they did without the media coverage. The media picked up the story immediately.

 

[Bradskii]

Most gun related deaths are not reported by the media. You can have 30 people murdered by guns in Chicago in one weekend and not hear a word about it but 4 people get killed in a school and it dominates the news.
Selective reporting.

So if 30 people get shot to death in one city on one weekend, that indicates that things aren't as bad as we think? Or a lot worse?

 

[JosephZ]

The protests couldn’t have grown as large as they did without the media coverage. The media picked up the story immediately.

The protests initially grew because of social media and word of mouth, not the media coverage of George Floyd's death. First locally, and then nationally, after a video was uploaded by a 17-year-old girl named Darnella Frazier, allowing millions of people across the country to watch George Floyd's last moments on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.

George Floyd had been dead only hours before the movement began. Driven by a terrifying video and word of mouth, people flooded the South Minneapolis intersection where he was killed shortly after Memorial Day, demanding an end to police violence against Black Americans.

The moment of collective grief and anger swiftly gave way to a yearlong, nationwide deliberation on what it means to be Black in America.

The Death of George Floyd Reignited a Movement. What Happens Now? (Published 2021)

Calls for racial justice touched nearly every aspect of American life on a scale that historians say has not happened since the civil rights movement of the 1960s.

www.nytimes.com

 

[BPPLEE]

So if 30 people get shot to death in one city on one weekend, that indicates that things aren't as bad as we think? Or a lot worse?

Things are much worse for some people. The city I live in hardly sees a day go by without a shooting. We have a protocol at my hospital, everyone in security knows what to do. Most of the victims are young people of color.
A middle aged woman was sitting at a red light a couple of months ago and two groups were shooting at each other and hit her, now she is paralyzed. All she was doing was driving somewhere she had nothing to do with the people who were shooting.
Trauma surgeons don’t want to come here because they don’t want to live here. Around the same time the woman was shot a surgeon on call went to lunch and her car was shot up. She didn’t finish her shift or her on call days she left immediately.

 

[Bradskii]

Things are much worse for some people.

Sounds like you need someone to ensure there's greater control of gun use.

 

[BPPLEE]

Sounds like you need someone to ensure there's greater control of gun use.

We need something that works. Alabama has removed the requirement for pistol permits and the mayor has come up with an ordinance that requires anyone with a firearm to have a photo identification and proof of gun ownership. It’s something. But criminals don’t care about laws.
Our police department is several hundred officers below normal. An officer told me they are working with dangerously few officers per shift. She said people that apply can’t pass the test, can’t qualify with a firearm, can’t clear the background check or can’t pass the drug test.
Until the department is back up to quota it’s not really going to matter what laws are passed.

 

[dogs4thewin]

That may be how you define a school shooting, but below are some of the more common definitions:

Encyclopedia Britannica

An event in which a student at an educational institution—an elementary, middle, or high school or a college or university—shoots and injures or kills at least one other student or faculty member on the grounds of that institution.

Gun Violence Archive

An incident that occurs on school property when students, faculty and/or staff are on the premises. Intent during those times are not restricted to specific types of shootings. Incidents that take place on or near school property when no students or faculty/staff are present are not considered "school shootings."

Everytown for Gun Safety

Any time a firearm discharges a live round inside a school building or on a school campus or grounds. Its database includes incidents when no one was injured; attempted or completed suicide, with no intent to injure others; and cases when a gun was fired unintentionally, resulting in injury or death.

K-12 School Shooting Database

...when a gun is fired, brandished (pointed at a person with intent), or bullet hits school property, regardless of the number of victims, time, day, or reason.

Proposed Federal Government Definition

The term “school shooting” means an event or occurrence—

(A) during which one or more individuals were injured or killed by a firearm; and

(B) that occurred—

(i) in, or on the grounds of, a school, even if before or after school hours;

(ii) while the victim was traveling to or from a regular session at school; or

(iii) while the victim was attending or traveling to or from an official school sponsored event.

Now see the proposed federal defintion is crazy. It is funny how if a shooting takes place outside somewhere else a store, a church whatever it is not known as a store shooting UNLESS it actually happens during operation hours and sometimes even if it does, but it is clear that the shooting was targeted say a drug deal gone bad they do not add the place the shooting happens and call it a "store shooting", yet something is a school shooting even if it has NOTHING to do with school and just happens on school grounds. I live in the next county over from a HUGE school ( university) do you know how many shootings in that town would be considered school shootings if that was how they defined it probably more than 80% as the school's campus is spread all over the county/.

 

[dogs4thewin]

So if 30 people get shot to death in one city on one weekend, that indicates that things aren't as bad as we think? Or a lot worse?

Most of those people were committing other crimes (or when they shot the vixtim)oftentimes in correction with gangs.

 

[BPPLEE]

Now see the proposed federal defintion is crazy. It is funny how if a shooting takes place outside somewhere else a store, a church whatever it is not known as a store shooting UNLESS it actually happens during operation hours and sometimes even if it does, but it is clear that the shooting was targeted say a drug deal gone bad they do not add the place the shooting happens and call it a "store shooting", yet something is a school shooting even if it has NOTHING to do with school and just happens on school grounds. I live in the next county over from a HUGE school ( university) do you know how many shootings in that town would be considered school shootings if that was how they defined it probably more than 80% as the school's campus is spread all over the county/.

Kind of like COVID deaths.

 

[Bradskii]

Most of those people were committing other crimes (or when they shot the vixtim)oftentimes in correction with gangs.

OK, so they don't count. No need to worry about them...

 

[dogs4thewin]

OK, so they don't count. No need to worry about them...

It is not that they do not count it is that those are the types of people that do not aquire their guns through proper channels/ and/or are legally precluded from having guns so they would not care about or be affected by those laws.

 

[BPPLEE]

It is not that they do not count it is that those are the types of people that do not aquire their guns through proper channels/ and/or are legally precluded from having guns so they would not care about or be affected by those laws.

Most proposed gun control measures would not affect criminals.

 

[Bradskii]

It is not that they do not count it is that those are the types of people that do not aquire their guns through proper channels/ and/or are legally precluded from having guns so they would not care about or be affected by those laws.

OK, I'll grant you that. It was a cheap shot by me. Yes, we should be concentrating on what are generally law abiding citizens, which I'm sure the father in this particular case would consider himself to be. But we could say that there were no laws in place to persuade him to act sensibly - so his son gained access to a weapon that should - let's face it, only be required for military purposes.

OK, if you want to play Rambo and shoot chunks out of a paper target at a shooting range, then that weapon really needs to be secure and only used for that purpose.