My Sandwich Challenge

[Lulav]

Like most creations, first you take pre-existing matter or energy and then use transform it into something else. In this case, it would seem, a couple slices of bread and some "apple butter" and spread one on the other (probably with a finger) and you have something new that didn't previously exist.

As the open of that famous argument about gods goes:

Premise 1: All things that begin to exist began to exist from pre-existing material. (or something like that).

But where did the 'pre-existing ' material come from?

 

[Lulav]

That's not what the PhD guy in @HARK!'s YouTube is translating from the Hebrew text(?)

Which post is this video you speak of?

 

[Hans Blaster]

I didn't. Would your recommend earthenware?

You can add it to your universe, but then it would contain a mixture of created and non-created objects.

 

[AV1611VET]

He created the cosmos including the earth .... and then He created the additional means that earth could be inhabitable for everything else He created.

Correct.

But as I said, He created Earth first, then the cosmos.

Earth = Day 1.

Stars = Day 4.

 

[Hans Blaster]

But where did the 'pre-existing ' material come from?

The OP doesn't specify, but since sandwiches and apple butter are only known to exist on Earth, one can presume that the pre-existing material has been part of Earth for 4.5 billion years.

 

[HARK!]

That's not what the PhD guy in @HARK!'s YouTube is translating from the Hebrew text(?)

I think that you might be getting your threads mixed up.

I posted that video in an apple thread. This is the apple sandwich thread.

 

[HARK!]

The deep philosophical question is was the Mobius bagel created ex-nihilo or by pure mathematicians?

A deep philosophical question that has puzzled me since I was a child is "was math created; or was it discovered?"

 

[HARK!]

but since sandwiches and apple butter are only known to exist on Earth,

Doesn't that assertion require that one make biased assumptions?

 

[HARK!]

Which post is this video you speak of?

Here it is: Kylie's Apple Challenge

 

[HARK!]

You can add it to your universe, but then it would contain a mixture of created and non-created objects.

I wasn't aware that non-created objects existed. Is there any physical evidence of such objects?

 

[SelfSim]

Here it is: Kylie's Apple Challenge

But wait!
In part #2 at the 5:48 mark, he reckons the very first words translate to:

In former times, the Lord created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was desolate and empty, and darkness was over the face of the deep .. {etc}

So, the components of your apple sandwich ... did you create them as well (in former times)?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Doesn't that assertion require that one make biased assumptions?

That's why I said "only known to exist" rather than "only exist" on Earth. Was your universe located elsewhere?

 

[SelfSim]

Here it is: Kylie's Apple Challenge

But wait!
In part #2 at the 5:48 mark, he reckons the very first words translate to:
So, the components of your apple sandwich ... did you create them as well (in former times)?

.. and then he goes on saying there's even more context behind Genesis 1-1 .. but one has to wade through John Walton's book: 'Ancient Near Eastern Thought and the Old Testament (second edition)', in order to find out that context!

 

[SelfSim]

Time, of course, is there all along, but Dost (the PhD translator dude) dumps that on science to figure out!

 

[AV1611VET]

But wait!
In part #2 at the 5:48 mark, he reckons the very first words translate to:

In former times, the Lord created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was desolate and empty, and darkness was over the face of the deep .. {etc}

I cringe when someone puts an ess on the end of HEAVEN in Genesis 1:1.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I wasn't aware that non-created objects existed. Is there any physical evidence of such objects?

If you didn't created in your created universe, but it is there it must be a non-created object. (I can only work with the properties of your hypothetical universe. It's relation to reality is not under my control.)

 

[SelfSim]

I cringe when someone puts an ess on the end of HEAVEN in Genesis 1:1.

Just double checked myself there .. I didn't misquote him (phew!) .. that, in fact, was his literal translation.

But the issue is, it seems either @HARK! created the components of his sandwich (which he forgot to mention?), or they were non-created objects, if his sandwich-making is consistent with the apparent context (and lead-up) of this thread(?)

 

[HARK!]

But wait!
In part #2 at the 5:48 mark, he reckons the very first words translate to:
So, the components of your apple sandwich ... did you create them as well (in former times)?

That is not the topic of this thread. I posted the link to the other thread as a result of your seeming to be confused as to in which thread that conversation was taking place.

 

[HARK!]

That's why I said "only known to exist" rather than "only exist" on Earth. Was your universe located elsewhere?

Only known by whom?

Doesn't that assertion require that one make biased assumptions?

 

[HARK!]

If you didn't created in your created universe, but it is there it must be a non-created object.

Let me see if I'm getting this straight. Are you saying that if I didn't personally create something that exists; then it is a non-created object? Most of the objects that I hold every day were created by other people.

(I can only work with the properties of your hypothetical universe. It's relation to reality is not under my control.)

My universe is not hypothetical.