My Raisin Bread Challenge

[Nostromo]

So dating both sets of raisins and both loaves of bread will return the exact same result?

Both will have the exact same amount and same quotient of C[sup]12[/sup]/C[sup]14[/sup] ?

(Or however that's done.)

That would depend on the amount of C14 with which they were created. Radiometric dating pretty much depends on the idea that some time had passed before reaching the present state.

 

[OllieFranz]

Science hasn't even scratched the surface, everytime it gets a closer look it has to rewrite everything it once thought true, even the single cell has only grown more complex with each new discovery, And science hasn't even come close to understanding the brain.........I'm smart enough to know I'll never comprehend the power and genius of God.....and neither will you

Yes, it is true that for every question science answers, it raises two new questions. And yes, most of science's answers are incomplete or (over-)simplified, especially the ones that Joe Q Public understands.

And yes, there are areas where science has only just begun to find answers, and also areas where it doesn't even pretend to understand, but merely acknowledges as outside its bailiwick. And yes, one of those areas is Who and What is God; what is His power and His genius.

Still, none of that invalidates the truth of any of the answers that science has found. Science has is limitations and acknowledges them, but what it does discover holds up to investigation, and none of the above changes that.

Which is more than can be said of most forms of Creationism.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

Science hasn't even scratched the surface, everytime it gets a closer look it has to rewrite everything it once thought true, even the single cell has only grown more complex with each new discovery, And science hasn't even come close to understanding the brain.........I'm smart enough to know I'll never comprehend the power and genius of God.....and neither will you

We've come a long way baby.

Science is the only way we have of evaluating and drawing reasonable conclusions about the world and universe we live in. Unfortunately the writers and copyists of the bible weren't privy to god/s' genius, which is why the bible doesn't mention anything of consequence, and when it does mention something we can measure, it invariably gets it wrong. So until you can come up with a better way of explaining the physical world, I'll stick with science.

 

[AV1611VET]

They will be whatever you want them to be since this fantasy only exists in your head. In the real world, raisins and oats do not magically poof into existence from nothing. When you are ready to join us in the real world let us know.

In that case, I won't change my mind about what I think about you guys' comments.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

In that case, I won't change my mind about what I think about you guys' comments.

Of course not, why would we expect you to change your mind with respect to reason? No, your cognitive dissonance is strong, but nothing is entirely impervious to that little voice in your head telling to you're wrong.

 

[sandwiches]

"In any case, I won't change my mind about what I think about you guys' comments. "

Corrected.

Disclaimer: Not the actual post. That's why I'm not quoting so AV won't complain again.

 

[VirOptimus]

So, in other words, you're setting up your own premise to try and make my challenge ineffectual?

Why don't you just say it can't be done as delineated in my OP?

I didnt do any of the sort, its you who uses terms incorrectly.

 

[quatona]

What is the difference between raisin bread created ex nihilo with the raisins older than the bread, and raisin bread created ex nihilo with the raisins and the bread the same age?

The former is a logical impossibility.

 

[Nick665]

What is the difference between raisin bread created ex nihilo with the raisins older than the bread, and raisin bread created ex nihilo with the raisins and the bread the same age?

Well, for starters, I can tell you a similarity, the breads were both created by......you know who creates "ex nihilo" stuff right ?

 

[prophecyistrue]

Yes, it is true that for every question science answers, it raises two new questions. And yes, most of science's answers are incomplete or (over-)simplified, especially the ones that Joe Q Public understands.

And yes, there are areas where science has only just begun to find answers, and also areas where it doesn't even pretend to understand, but merely acknowledges as outside its bailiwick. And yes, one of those areas is Who and What is God; what is His power and His genius.

Still, none of that invalidates the truth of any of the answers that science has found. Science has is limitations and acknowledges them, but what it does discover holds up to investigation, and none of the above changes that.

Which is more than can be said of most forms of Creationism.

except one thing....God's word......one word from God changes everything!

 

[prophecyistrue]

We've come a long way baby.

Science is the only way we have of evaluating and drawing reasonable conclusions about the world and universe we live in. Unfortunately the writers and copyists of the bible weren't privy to god/s' genius, which is why the bible doesn't mention anything of consequence, and when it does mention something we can measure, it invariably gets it wrong. So until you can come up with a better way of explaining the physical world, I'll stick with science.

doesn't mention anything of consequence?......only gives you a plan for obtaining eternal life.......and if your only going to attempt to understand the physical world while not incorporating the spiritual world at the same time, you will always come to a flawed conclusion, because the both are part of the same reality, although it seems the spiritual trumps the physical in the bigger picture and is probably more real than what we can see. none of our laws of physics seem to have any bearing what takes place in the spiritual

 

[OllieFranz]

except one thing....God's word......one word from God changes everything!

And the book that you are calling "God's Word" (which isn't God's Word -- it was inspired by God, and contains [some of] God's truths, but even it tells us that God's Word is a Person, not a book) tells us that we can trust the natural world He created to teach His truth. (Romans 1:19).

He would not create a world that teaches science one thing and expect us to believe another. Yes He can circumvent the natural order for a purpose, but that purpose would never be to lie. We can trust science because we believe in the God of the Bible.

 

[prophecyistrue]

And the book that you are calling "God's Word" (which isn't God's Word -- it was inspired by God, and contains [some of] God's truths, but even it tells us that God's Word is a Person, not a book) tells us that we can trust the natural world He created to teach His truth. (Romans 1:19).

He would not create a world that teaches science one thing and expect us to believe another. Yes He can circumvent the natural order for a purpose, but that purpose would never be to lie. We can trust science because we believe in the God of the Bible.

I wouldn't trust science, It has a lousy track record

 

[Split Rock]

I wouldn't trust science, It has a lousy track record

LOL! Yeah.. a real lousy track record indeed. Its not like the computer you used to type this post, or the internet you shared it with, or the car you drive, or the electricity available to your home, or the food on your plate, or any of the technology you take for granted every single day... any of it... had anything to do with this science stuff that has such a lousy track record.

 

[AV1611VET]

I wouldn't trust science, It has a lousy track record

LOL! Yeah.. a real lousy track record indeed. Its not like the computer you used to type this post, or the internet you shared it with, or the car you drive, or the electricity available to your home, or the food on your plate, or any of the technology you take for granted every single day... any of it... had anything to do with this science stuff that has such a lousy track record.

All that stuff got here via a lousy track record -- so both of you are correct.

 

[sandwiches]

All that stuff got here via a lousy track record -- so both of you are correct.

However, Split Rock is correct and prophecyistrue is lying as he trusts science every day of his life for medicine, water, food, air conditioning, transportation, clothing, communication, etc, etc...

 

[Split Rock]

All that stuff got here via a lousy track record -- so both of you are correct.

So, tell us AVET... how does something with a "lousy track record" produce all that "stuff?" Remember the creationist-only cave waiting for you guys in the Pacific...

 

[AV1611VET]

So, tell us AVET... how does something with a "lousy track record" produce all that "stuff?"

Because -- as the song goes: Little is much when God is in it.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Can we name anything creation science has produced? That is, is there anything that a creationist has produced due to his acceptance of creationism that a non-creationist could not produce because of his acceptance of evolution?

 

[AV1611VET]

Can we name anything creation science has produced?

No -- the creation event did not use science.

That is, is there anything that a creationist has produced due to his acceptance of creationism that a non-creationist could not produce because of his acceptance of evolution?

I suppose I could say "a proper understanding of the universe's creation" -- but I'll go with: Not that I know of.