My Raisin Bread Challenge

[AV1611VET]

What is the difference between raisin bread created ex nihilo with the raisins older than the bread, and raisin bread created ex nihilo with the raisins and the bread the same age?

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

California Raisins - YouTube

 

[VirOptimus]

Even if it was possible to create things from nothing it would still not change the concept of age, i.e. the age is how long it has existed. It cannot be older then the time it has existed. It can possibly appear to be older, but that is not the same thing. the challande is therefore nonsensical.

 

[AV1611VET]

Even if it was possible to create things from nothing it would still not change the concept of age, i.e. the age is how long it has existed. It cannot be older then the time it has existed. It can possibly appear to be older, but that is not the same thing. the challande is therefore nonsensical.

So you're saying the raisins in both loaves of bread, as well as the bread themselves, are all four physically the same age?

 

[VirOptimus]

So you're saying the raisins in both loaves of bread, as well as the bread themselves, are all four physically the same age?

I'm saying that the age of an object is how long it has existed, nothing can be older then its existance as thats the definition of its age.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm saying that the age of an object is how long it has existed, nothing can be older then its existance as thats the definition of its age.

So, in other words, you're setting up your own premise to try and make my challenge ineffectual?

Why don't you just say it can't be done as delineated in my OP?

 

[prophecyistrue]

Even if it was possible to create things from nothing it would still not change the concept of age, i.e. the age is how long it has existed. It cannot be older then the time it has existed. It can possibly appear to be older, but that is not the same thing. the challande is therefore nonsensical.

thats only because you think in human terms and are limited in your thinking, no one can think at the level of God, its impossible, so you will always be trying to accomplish an impossible feat, understanding how God does things, they will never be figured out.....But the bible never states where or what God used to make the earth, and this simple truth could put an endless list of variables into dating the earth

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

thats only because you think in human terms and are limited in your thinking, no one can think at the level of God, its impossible, so you will always be trying to accomplish an impossible feat, understanding how God does things, they will never be figured out.....But the bible never states where or what God used to make the earth, and this simple truth could put an endless list of variables into dating the earth

Well there's the rub, isn't it. The problem for you guys is, science is figuring out "how God does things," and it's nothing like the bible describes. Which is why, using bronze age writings to interpret our modern world, is a bit like using the schematics of a mouse trap to explain a Mac.

 

[Loudmouth]

So, in other words, you're setting up your own premise to try and make my challenge ineffectual?

People are trying to show why your challenge is ineffectual. It is nothing more than an ad hoc fantasy where you get to change the rules as you see fit when you see fit. A discussion with a 3 year old would be more enlightening than any of your challenges.

You need to remember one thing. When you have to invoke Last Thursdayism you have lost. Period.

 

[Nostromo]

AV doesn't lose, because his challenges simply involve winding people up for fun and getting himself plenty of attention.

 

[Split Rock]

What is the difference between raisin bread created ex nihilo with the raisins older than the bread, and raisin bread created ex nihilo with the raisins and the bread the same age?

There is no difference, because "embedded" age is nonsense (unless you can explain it better than you have up until now). The raisins and the bread are the same age in both examples.

Do I get a cookie now? How about an Oatmeal Raisin cookie? I want my raisins to be 3.5 minutes older than the bread.

 

[Loudmouth]

AV doesn't lose, because his challenges simply involve winding people up for fun and getting himself plenty of attention.

I look at it differently. AV is doing a great service to science. He has pulled the drapes back on creationist thought. As the old saying goes:

"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"

After people read AV's posts there is little doubt that creationism is intellectually and scientifically bankrupt.

 

[Delphiki]

What is the difference between raisin bread created ex nihilo with the raisins older than the bread, and raisin bread created ex nihilo with the raisins and the bread the same age?

If the raisins are older then the bread, then the bread can't be created "ex nihilo", as the raisins are a component of the bread. Derp.

 

[Nostromo]

After people read AV's posts there is little doubt that creationism is intellectually and scientifically bankrupt.

I can't see that there are that many people genuinely on the sort of middle ground where they need to hear AV's rubbish before they're able to make up their minds.

 

[pgp_protector]

AV doesn't lose, because his challenges simply involve winding people up for fun and getting himself plenty of attention.

Well that and providing post to QV to / from.

 

[AV1611VET]

The raisins and the bread are the same age in both examples.

So dating both sets of raisins and both loaves of bread will return the exact same result?

Both will have the exact same amount and same quotient of C[sup]12[/sup]/C[sup]14[/sup] ?

(Or however that's done.)

 

[Delphiki]

I can't see that there are that many people genuinely on the sort of middle ground where they need to hear AV's rubbish before they're able to make up their minds.

I would go a step further and say that AV is probably the most prominent opponent of creationism on these forums, whether he realizes it or not.

 

[sandwiches]

I would go a step further and say that AV is probably the most prominent opponent of creationism on these forums, whether he realizes it or not.

That's true. Even his embedded age idea clearly indicates that to the best of our abilities and knowledge, the world is as old as it appears to be. That there is not reason, other than a book, to believe that the universe was created around 6,000 years ago.

 

[prophecyistrue]

Well there's the rub, isn't it. The problem for you guys is, science is figuring out "how God does things," and it's nothing like the bible describes. Which is why, using bronze age writings to interpret our modern world, is a bit like using the schematics of a mouse trap to explain a Mac.

Science hasn't even scratched the surface, everytime it gets a closer look it has to rewrite everything it once thought true, even the single cell has only grown more complex with each new discovery, And science hasn't even come close to understanding the brain.........I'm smart enough to know I'll never comprehend the power and genius of God.....and neither will you

 

[Loudmouth]

So dating both sets of raisins and both loaves of bread will return the exact same result?

Both will have the exact same amount and same quotient of C[sup]12[/sup]/C[sup]14[/sup] ?

(Or however that's done.)

They will be whatever you want them to be since this fantasy only exists in your head. In the real world, raisins and oats do not magically poof into existence from nothing. When you are ready to join us in the real world let us know.