My problem with the protesters

[Brightmoon]

Judging from their reactions, I suspect the vast majority of protesters in Seattle are painting all cops with the same broad brush.

I’m going to suggest that you google Adrian Schoolcraft if you think that cops don’t plan to abuse civilians at times.

 

[Brightmoon]

I think if you read that entire article that you’re going to shocked at the level of abuse that Officer Schoolcraft went through because he reported the deliberate targeting of innocent civilians for arrest. This is in NYC not some one horse town in the south where crap like this happens routinely.

 

[Sparagmos]

I agree all those wrongful actions are indeed bad, and why quite a few individual officers were fired recently, such as some fired for having turned off their body cams.

But we cannot conclude from the actions of some officers that most police are just like those doing wrongs.

The entire police department here participates in the use of tear gas and rubber bullets, and a majority also have no problem being excessively rough with protesters. It’s all coordinated, it’s not like just a few bad officers do these things. When you are under siege by an army you don’t talk of a few bad soldiers.

 

[Sparagmos]

Are you suggesting most cops do those things? How do you know this?

Of course! I know because I witness it and it’s being recorded. Downtown Portland is regularly filled with tear gas, what do you think all the smoke is in the videos? They’ve used rubber bullets last 3 nights in a row here. They shot someone in the head with a rubber bullet about a week ago and he will likely be brain damaged for life. They’ve also been harassing and arresting the press.

 

[Sparagmos]

What about lead bullets? Are those ever okay?

I’m not sure what your point is. If bullets are used for anything but immediate self defense, no, it’s not ok.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'll touch on the first one and since you wasted my time on it, you can bring the full post here and we can see if you're at least being factual on your second charge/comment there.

No I did not. See the following where I said George Floyd's Murderer should have been arrested immediately:

So you don't think all cops should be arrested immediately....just some of them?

You don't see how ridiculous that sounds? Should police departments just call you up and see what you want to have happen?

Or should there be a procedure which applies to every cop in every situation?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Of course! I know because I witness it and it’s being recorded. Downtown Portland is regularly filled with tear gas, what do you think all the smoke is in the videos? They’ve used rubber bullets last 3 nights in a row here. They shot someone in the head with a rubber bullet about a week ago and he will likely be brain damaged for life. They’ve also been harassing and arresting the press.

Hasn't Portland been rioting for over a month now?

 

[Ken-1122]

I’m going to suggest that you google Adrian Schoolcraft if you think that cops don’t plan to abuse civilians at times. View attachment 281288

And what does this have to do with the Seattle Police Department?

 

[Ken-1122]

Of course! I know because I witness it and it’s being recorded. Downtown Portland is regularly filled with tear gas, what do you think all the smoke is in the videos?

Your judgment was directed at all cops; not just the Portland Police Department. Are you changing it now?

I’m not sure what your point is. If bullets are used for anything but immediate self defense, no, it’s not ok.

Immediate self defense? Before you said nothing about self defense. Are you changing this now? So are you changing it so rubber bullets okay for immediate self defense? Or is that only okay for the lead ones.

 

[Sparagmos]

Your judgment was directed at all cops; not just the Portland Police Department. Are you changing it now?

. My experience is with Portland, I trust the people in each community to make the same designations, and they have. I think I made it clear how I judge them. A good cop would be arresting all the bad cops, or becoming a whistle blower. And the very orders these cops are given are unethical. They should refuse to carry out any order that is unethical.

Immediate self defense? Before you said nothing about self defense. Are you changing this now? So are you changing it so rubber bullets okay for immediate self defense? Or is that only okay for the lead ones.

Rubber bullets aren’t used for self defense in my experience, they’re used for crowd control. So when I say any cop who uses rubber bullets is bad, It goes with the assumption that they aren’t using them for self defense. Have you ever witnesses the use of rubber bullets or been in a situation where you feared being hit by one?

You seem really eager to “catch” me contradicting myself. Do you not think I’m being honest? Do you think I have hidden intentions or motivations?

 

[Radagast]

Rubber bullets aren’t used for self defense in my experience, they’re used for crowd control.

You believe that people should be allowed to illegally riot; other people don't believe that.

I don't think that the disagreement will be resolved by debate. After all, part of rioting itself is a refusal to debate.

In any case, the decision to use tear gas, rubber bullets, etc. is not made by police; it's made by local authorities.

 

[rjs330]

. My experience is with Portland, I trust the people in each community to make the same designations, and they have. I think I made it clear how I judge them. A good cop would be arresting all the bad cops, or becoming a whistle blower. And the very orders these cops are given are unethical. They should refuse to carry out any order that is unethical.



Rubber bullets aren’t used for self defense in my experience, they’re used for crowd control. So when I say any cop who uses rubber bullets is bad, It goes with the assumption that they aren’t using them for self defense. Have you ever witnesses the use of rubber bullets or been in a situation where you feared being hit by one?

You seem really eager to “catch” me contradicting myself. Do you not think I’m being honest? Do you think I have hidden intentions or motivations?

And what should cops do for crowd control exactly. What should they do to stop the riots and violence?

 

[rjs330]

'Afro-indigenous non-binary local organizer' calls for the 'abolition of the United States as we know it'

It seems they want more than just police reform.

 

[Sparagmos]

I thought I’d post this video link so that interested ppl can see a few of the variety of “non-lethal” and “less lethal” weapons being used in Portland against protesters and the general public who live and work downtown. A local live streamer shows just what he collected so far last night.

https://twitter.com/econbrkfst/status/1284729574706671616?s=21

 

[Sparagmos]

You believe that people should be allowed to illegally riot; other people don't believe that.

I don't think that the disagreement will be resolved by debate. After all, part of rioting itself is a refusal to debate.

In any case, the decision to use tear gas, rubber bullets, etc. is not made by police; it's made by local authorities.

What exactly is “rioting?” You’re just calling everyone rioters, which is nonsense.

The police should be arresting and charging people committing crimes, and if they are convicted they can be punished. It’s not the police’s job to punish people, only to arrest them. This is just good old fashioned suppression of dissent by the government.

 

[Sparagmos]

And what should cops do for crowd control exactly. What should they do to stop the riots and violence?

If anyone is being violent they should walk up tho them and arrest them. Citizens have the right to assemble and protest, the crowd does not need to be controlled. You talk of violence, yet all of the violence is coming from the cops. Unless you consider graffiti violence...

 

[Radagast]

Unless you consider graffiti violence...

Graffiti is a crime, as are breaking windows, setting fire to buildings, and obstructing traffic.

 

[Ana the Ist]

What exactly is “rioting?” You’re just calling everyone rioters, which is nonsense.

If they're throwing things at police, they're rioting.

 

[Sparagmos]

Graffiti is a crime, as are breaking windows, setting fire to buildings, and obstructing traffic.

As I said, people doing illegal things should be arrested. What did the guy who took a rubber bullet to the head do? He hasn’t been charged with anything. Friends and witnesses say he’s a peaceful protester who was known for deescalating things. Or the guy whose arm they broke last night? Not arrested, just beat up. Why are they also being violent towardsand arresting the press? How about the thousands of protesters who have been tear gassed simply for being in a public place?

 

[Radagast]

If anyone is being violent they should walk up tho them and arrest them.

Which, of course, is impossible (as you know full well), because the bulk of the crowd aids and abets the murders and arsonists within it by shielding them from the police.