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My problem with the protesters

Sparagmos

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Graffiti is a crime, as are breaking windows, setting fire to buildings, and obstructing traffic.
You asked how the police should stop violence and rioting, now you’re listing things that are illegal but not violent. I’d agree arson is violence, but the other things on your list aren’t violent. So what do you mean by rioting? The people that were chased, charged, attacked, shot at, and tear gassed by police Friday night were not committing arson. At the most they were jaywalking, basically doing civil disobedience. If some were tagging buildings, they should have been arrested. You don’t actually think all of those people, or even more than a tiny handful, are arsonists do you?


So...what IS rioting?
 
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Sparagmos

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Which, of course, is impossible (as you know full well), because the bulk of the crowd aids and abets the murders and arsonists within it by shielding them from the police.
So now you’re just making things up. Are you writing a movie script?
 
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Radagast

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You asked how the police should stop violence and rioting, now you’re listing things that are illegal but not violent.

People who carry out illegal actions, or who aid and abet those carrying out illegal actions. should be stopped, arrested, and punished. I applaud the police and federal agents who are doing that.

Should the police and federal agents feel the need to shoot the rioters, I would support that as well. If extreme measures are necessary to stop the rioting, so be it.
 
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Sparagmos

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Which, of course, is impossible (as you know full well), because the bulk of the crowd aids and abets the murders and arsonists within it by shielding them from the police.
Forgot to ask - if it’s possible to shove, toss, and hit a person, why would it not be possible to arrest them?
 
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Sparagmos

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People who carry out illegal actions, or who aid and abet those carrying out illegal actions. should be stopped, arrested, and punished. I applaud the police and federal agents who are doing that.

Should the police and federal agents feel the need to shoot the rioters, I would support that as well. If extreme measures are necessary to stop the rioting, so be it.
And what is rioting?
 
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rjs330

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You asked how the police should stop violence and rioting, now you’re listing things that are illegal but not violent. I’d agree arson is violence, but the other things on your list aren’t violent. So what do you mean by rioting? The people that were chased, charged, attacked, shot at, and tear gassed by police Friday night were not committing arson. At the most they were jaywalking, basically doing civil disobedience. If some were tagging buildings, they should have been arrested. You don’t actually think all of those people, or even more than a tiny handful, are arsonists do you?


So...what IS rioting?
All of that is rioting. And it's all over the news as to what's happening in Portland. The police need to go in and break it up. When you get large crowds like that and they are attacking police, burning stuff, breaking windows obstructing traffic they need to be broken up. And police do not have the ability to simply walk into a crowd and arrest someone whom the crowd is part of. We've seen the videos and know what's going on. It's not a bunch of pacifists. They want polic encounters. They want to fight the police. Perhaps it's time for the peaceful people to go home until all those that are causing problems get arrested. Cause right now it's hard to distinguish between them. Cause those dudes that seem peaceful one minute will turn on you and commit crimes the next. You have zero idea which of those protestors are going to be criminals and which aren't. So send em all packing.

When you peaceful people get control of your group then come back when you can do so peacefully.
Portland riots: Officers injured after protesters launch fireworks at them - CNN
 
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rjs330

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Forgot to ask - if it’s possible to shove, toss, and hit a person, why would it not be possible to arrest them?

It's about dispursing the crowd and not arresting everyone in the crowd. You don't run Willy nilly into a mob trying to arrest someone in the middle or back of the mob, because you have no idea which people in the mob are violent or will use violence. That's just dumb.

You diapurse the entire crowd because members of the crowd have committed crimes against the community and individuals.

I have an idea, why don't you and a bunch of your group form a BLM Anti-Crime Unit and go around and perform citizens arrest on everyone committing a crime. Then you can drag them to the front lines and give them to the police. It would be a lot easier to move around and catch them for you because you are already in the middle of the group and don't have to worry about being attacked. I bet if you met with police authorities and let them know what you were doing they would appreciate it. So would the rest of your peaceful protestors.

The police wouldn't have to try and break up the crowd then and wouldn't have to worry about the mob attacking them for trying to arrest those in the middle of the crowd.

It's a win win. You then will get to peacefully protest and the police won't have to try and stop crime.
 
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rjs330

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If anyone is being violent they should walk up tho them and arrest them. Citizens have the right to assemble and protest, the crowd does not need to be controlled. You talk of violence, yet all of the violence is coming from the cops. Unless you consider graffiti violence...

Apparently police can't just walk up to people and arrest them. The rioters don't just give up. Looks like they can get a couple, but not all.

12 SPD officers injured, several businesses damaged in demonstration
 
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Sparagmos

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Apparently police can't just walk up to people and arrest them. The rioters don't just give up. Looks like they can get a couple, but not all.

12 SPD officers injured, several businesses damaged in demonstration
I haven’t witnessed events in Seattle, I’m speaking about Portland where I’m very familiar with what is going down. Let’s take one example, Chris David, who was beaten and pepper sprayed at close range, yet not arrested even though there was nothing that prevented the cops from making an arrest. The encounter is on video. Chris tried to talk to the cops and was punished. What crime did he commit, and why was he beaten (Punished) but not arrested? He wasn’t “rioting,” yet he was assaulted by cops. Based on the video and description of what happened, what did David do that did not justify arrest, but did justify a beating? You see, when cops beat alleged criminals but don’t arrest them, they are simply taking away due process and the rule of law. Clearly the purpose of the beating was suppression, not law enforcement.

A Navy vet asked federal officers in Portland to remember their oaths. Then they broke his hand.

“David, a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy and former member of the Navy’s Civil Engineer Corps, said he wanted to know what the officers involved thought of the oath they had sworn to protect and defend the Constitution.

So, he said, on Saturday evening, he headed to downtown Portland to ask them.

That night’s protests outside the federal courthouse — the 51st day of ongoing demonstrations since the police killing of George Floyd — began with a line of local moms linking arms and demanding the federal agents stop targeting Portland kids. David, who had never attended a protest before, hung back and watched.

He was trying to keep his distance, he said, as a host of health problems have made him especially vulnerable amid a still-raging coronavirus pandemic. He asked one woman when the feds would show up, but she said it was also her first protest since the Department of Homeland Security deployed tactical units from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and U.S. Customs and Border Protection to bolster protections for federal buildings and officers in the Pacific Northwest city.

Tensions have escalated in the past two weeks, particularly after an officer with the U.S. Marshals Service fired a less-lethal round at a protester’s head on July 11, critically injuring him.

Just as he was about to leave, David said, the federal officers emerged. They rushed a line of protesters nearby, knocking protesters to the ground. David walked toward a gap in the line, calling out to the officers.

“Why are you not honoring your oath?” he bellowed. “Why are you not honoring your oath to the Constitution?”

An officer trained his weapon on David’s chest as several agents pushed him, sending David stumbling backward. But he regained his center and tried again. Another agent raised his baton and began to beat David, who stood unwavering with his arms at his sides. Then another officer unloaded a canister of chemical irritant spray into David’s face.”
 
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Sparagmos

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All of that is rioting. And it's all over the news as to what's happening in Portland. The police need to go in and break it up. When you get large crowds like that and they are attacking police, burning stuff, breaking windows obstructing traffic they need to be broken up. And police do not have the ability to simply walk into a crowd and arrest someone whom the crowd is part of. We've seen the videos and know what's going on. It's not a bunch of pacifists. They want polic encounters. They want to fight the police. Perhaps it's time for the peaceful people to go home until all those that are causing problems get arrested. Cause right now it's hard to distinguish between them. Cause those dudes that seem peaceful one minute will turn on you and commit crimes the next. You have zero idea which of those protestors are going to be criminals and which aren't. So send em all packing.

When you peaceful people get control of your group then come back when you can do so peacefully.
Portland riots: Officers injured after protesters launch fireworks at them - CNN
I live here, am a protester, follow the live streams, and have friends who are out there every night. You are grossly misinformed as to what is actually happening. If you want to ignore the first hand accounts, and instead rely on propaganda, so be it.
 
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Ken-1122

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. My experience is with Portland, I trust the people in each community to make the same designations, and they have.
Perhaps you should have been more clear; at first it sounded like you were condemning all cops not just the ones in Portland.
 
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Sparagmos

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Perhaps you should have been more clear; at first it sounded like you were condemning all cops not just the ones in Portland.
I think the same is true in most large cities but I recognize that there are exceptions, and I think that each community should be able to speak for itself.
 
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Ken-1122

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I live here, am a protester, follow the live streams, and have friends who are out there every night. You are grossly misinformed as to what is actually happening. If you want to ignore the first hand accounts, and instead rely on propaganda, so be it.
What are you protesting concerning the Portland Police department? Exactly what changes are you seeking to make happen?
 
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