My problem with the protesters

[Ken-1122]

The police, in general, brought this widespread public wrath upon themselves, in my opinion. The growing mistrust and anger toward the police across the country certainly didn't happen overnight. I personally believe that some hefty police reform across the country is way overdue.

The video I posted was sent to me by a friend and it offers one of the best explanations on the reasons why people are turning against the police. It's about 52 minutes in length, but I strongly recommend watching it in its entirety. David Wood shares a powerful message (and testimony).

Video summary:

Recent protests and riots have made one thing abundantly clear: Some people hate police officers. Why do some people become enraged at an entire police force and the entire criminal justice system when a particular officer kills someone? Why are some people so angry that they want to defund the police or abolish police entirely? David Wood (an ex-con) discusses various examples of misconduct by police officers and correctional officers, and the impact these encounters have on suspects, inmates, and entire communities. He concludes with some suggestions for police reform.

Does David Wood speak from the position that all police departments are the same? Or does he recognize the distinction between the policies, and actions between different departments, and recognize what goes on in one state or city does not go on in the next?

 

[Crimson Dragon]

Does David Wood speak from the position that all police departments are the same? Or does he recognize the distinction between the policies, and actions between different departments, and recognize what goes on in one state or city does not go on in the next?

He clearly recognizes the differences and he provides rational reasons for his commentary as well. I forwarded this video to a few of my relatives and friends, who staunchly disagreed with the protests against the police, and this video totally changed their minds after they watched it.

 

[Ken-1122]

How many are doing that wrong of painting the wrongs of a few police officers onto all police? -- how many in this group --.

Judging from their reactions, I suspect the vast majority of protesters in Seattle are painting all cops with the same broad brush.

 

[Halbhh]

Judging from their reactions, I suspect the vast majority of protesters in Seattle are painting all cops with the same broad brush.

It would be really interesting to hear from several of them, not only the loudest ones. Not only an angry loud leader or 3 -- not the person leading a chant or visibly agitated, but from many random people in the crowd at random.

The people behind the front line.

 

[Ken-1122]

It would be really interesting to hear from several of them, not only the loudest ones. Not only an angry loud leader or 3 -- not the person leading a chant or visibly agitated, but from many random people in the crowd at random.

The people behind the front line.

The ones I talked to were unaware of any of the policies in place they say they want to change.

 

[Halbhh]

I think the reason the protests have pretty much ended is that the individual officers involved in the seeming killings (the worst can look close to executions at times), have been relieved of duty and/or sometimes charged and arrested.

I think even majorities of protesters (there were about 20 million altogether it's estimated), would never want to defund the police, but want a stronger level of accountability and change where needed.

So, you get a situation where a lot of people came to a protest, but only agreed with some things said by the speakers at times.

 

[Sparagmos]

Any police officer who uses tear gas or rubber bullets against citizens is bad. Any police officer who witnesses another officer using unnecessary force against citizens and does not intervene, report, or blow the whistle, is bad. Any police officer who votes to keep the union leaders who defend bad cops is bad. Any police officer who turns off a body cam is bad. I don’t think that leaves many good ones.

 

[Paulos23]

Any police officer who uses tear gas or rubber bullets against citizens is bad. Any police officer who witnesses another officer using unnecessary force against citizens and does not intervene, report, or blow the whistle, is bad. Any police officer who votes to keep the union leaders who defend bad cops is bad. Any police officer who turns off a body cam is bad. I don’t think that leaves many good ones.

As the saying goes, a few bad apples rot the barrel.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Not true. We actually do care, that is one thing we had against B. Clinton back in the day (among many other things). Living in Silicon Valley in a household that was right out of the "Gen X" novel that popularized that term. A rental house populated by 20 somethings all working in the Valley. Clinton flooded the market with white collar green card carryer, trying to "break the middle class" as my best friend put it. That really PO'd him. Because you needed to be 120K $ to just be regular middle class there. And you had all these 60K $ Indians, Chinese etc. brought in as virtual serfs to the companies where they were working 60+ hours

Yet I only see people complaining about the "illegals". Here you say that this problem with the h1 visas also bothers you but I have never seen you or anyone with a conservative view complaining about these. Even if it's out there, it's far less common than complaints about "illegals", as this thread demonstrates.

To me it makes no sense to be complaining about "illegals" taking jobs when we have the corporations rigging the system to import people for the better jobs which we lose far more of.

It's like someone complaining that their one neighbor is pilfering apples from their apple tree while never complaining that their other neighbor has his friend the mayor charge them double property tax so the mayor and neighbor can split the extra tax money put it into their pockets. And then if asked about that, to say, "oh yeah, that's bad too. But THIS guy OVER HERE is taking APPLES from MY TREE!!!! GRRRR!!!!!!!!!"

And that's before I even get into the Christian morality aspect of it all. It seems that to conservatives anything that's legal must therefore be moral - BECAUSE it's legal. And vice versa - anything illegal must be immoral BECAUSE it's illegal. As a Christian I don't use legality as the arbiter of morality.

 

[Ken-1122]

Any police officer who uses tear gas or rubber bullets against citizens is bad.

What about lead bullets? Are those ever okay?

 

[KCfromNC]

This really gets me especially when liberals want things like socialized medicine. That is expensive enough for natives and legal residents, but when you couple that with open borders policies

Which candidates are endorsing open border policies?

 

[Halbhh]

Any police officer who uses tear gas or rubber bullets against citizens is bad. Any police officer who witnesses another officer using unnecessary force against citizens and does not intervene, report, or blow the whistle, is bad. Any police officer who votes to keep the union leaders who defend bad cops is bad. Any police officer who turns off a body cam is bad. I don’t think that leaves many good ones.

I agree all those wrongful actions are indeed bad, and why quite a few individual officers were fired recently, such as some fired for having turned off their body cams.

But we cannot conclude from the actions of some officers that most police are just like those doing wrongs.

 

[Ken-1122]

Any police officer who uses tear gas or rubber bullets against citizens is bad. Any police officer who witnesses another officer using unnecessary force against citizens and does not intervene, report, or blow the whistle, is bad. Any police officer who votes to keep the union leaders who defend bad cops is bad. Any police officer who turns off a body cam is bad. I don’t think that leaves many good ones.

Are you suggesting most cops do those things? How do you know this?

 

[Ana the Ist]

This isn't the fault of the police in general, it's the fault of the bad apples of police departments, and the people that hire them.

Floyd's death could have easily been prevented....the complaints on the officer that murdered him were right there, but they weren't used, just that simple. Make complaints easy to file on cops and get serious about using those complaints, as well as screening for cops with mental issues like even mild insecurities and cops that would tend to be on a power trip.

As for the protesters, some say they have gone too far, I say, yes and no to that. Had they not done what many would call over the line protesting or rioting, I have serious doubts they would have arrested and filed charges against the murderer Cop, at least not so quickly (should have been arrested immediately). Something had to finally get the establishments attention for several reasons.

But there is point where the protests/riots must end, and don't ask me when they have made their point enough or not...IDK. Can anyone say they have gotten the attein of the powers that be even yet, or will it all go right back to what is was very soon?

Things need to change badly, but doing stupid things like defending police departments are not the answer, and as OP says, make no real sense at all.



Make strict rules for all states to follow. Just like we clearly can't mess around with states to make their own rules about wearing masks, we can't let some states piddle around with too lax a rules that don't stop the cop problems.

ALL offending officer should be treated just like a citizen by getting arrested and such, at least until things are sorted out. If a cop hired is found bad, especially if they had a bad record before hiring, fire those that hired the bad cop, or worse, jail them for overlooking proper procedure. Things like that will help.

It's not all cops that are the problem but it is many of them and we just need to get serious about the rules as well as enforcing them, and they really have not done that up to now. Do that or pay the price...again.

You're saying that cops should be arrested and thrown in jail every time they use force and it requires an investigation?

 

[Brightmoon]

The problem is some cops use force when patience is a better choice. Hence all the mentally ill who get severely injured or killed

 

[Kenny'sID]

You're saying that cops should be arrested and thrown in jail every time they use force and it requires an investigation?

Show me where you got that idea from?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Show me where you got that idea from?

You...post #12...you said they should have been arrested immediately.

You also said that they should have done something about the complaints against the cop, even though you obviously don't know if they were investigated or not.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You...post #12...you said they should have been arrested immediately.

You also said that they should have done something about the complaints against the cop, even though you obviously don't know if they were investigated or not.

I'll touch on the first one and since you wasted my time on it, you can bring the full post here and we can see if you're at least being factual on your second charge/comment there.

No I did not. See the following where I said George Floyd's Murderer should have been arrested immediately:

Floyd's death could have easily been prevented....the complaints on the officer that murdered him were right there, but they weren't used, just that simple. Make complaints easy to file on cops and get serious about using those complaints, as well as screening for cops with mental issues like even mild insecurities and cops that would tend to be on a power trip.

As for the protesters, some say they have gone too far, I say, yes and no to that. Had they not done what many would call over the line protesting or rioting, I have serious doubts they would have arrested and filed charges against the murderer Cop, at least not so quickly (should have been arrested immediately). Something had to finally get the establishments attention for several reasons.

The subject was George Floyd, and I specified a single cop. No "they" as you claim.

Geez Louse

 

[Radagast]

Hence all the mentally ill who get severely injured or killed

Those would be the mentally ill brandishing weapons. Sadly, shooting them is sometimes the only way to save the lives of others.

 

[Brightmoon]

Not in all cases , I’ve seen cops overreact to a mentally ill person who they just abused . If they’d just sat there and talked for a few minutes they could have talked him into the ambulance. I even tried to calm this person down and it was partially working.