My problem with the protesters

[Ken-1122]

I remember when Trump ran for President he was talking about building a wall to keep the Illegals out because they were bringing drugs into the Country, and lots of people called him racist because he didn’t recognize many illegals are honest, hard working people who are only looking for a better life. IOW he was accused of painting all illegals with a single broad brush.

Now; some of these same people who accused Trump of painting all illegals with a broad brush are doing the same thing to the Police! Some guy is killed by police in Minnesota, and 1000 miles away people in my city are protesting that they want police reform. Don’t they realize the policies and rules that govern the Police departments vary from state to state, even from city to city? If I want to reform the police department in Seattle, I need to know the policies already in place in the Seattle police department, and what it is what I want to change. If I want to reform the police department because I am constantly harassed by the police in my city, the harassment may have nothing to do with the policies in place; it could be just a case of some cops breaking police policy in order to harass me. Getting rid of the cops breaking police policy would fix the problem; not getting rid of the policy already in place.

Your thoughts?

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I agree. Police forces vary widely from one city to the next. Over in Costa Mesa, the city that rioted against Trump, they have a police force that harasses the city council. If the mayor steps out of line he gets his own personal escort to provide him with a never-ending supply if traffic tickets. Next door, in Irvine, we have some fine, respectful officers, and having dealt with both at some time I must say that the contrast is stark.

I don't think it's policy, so much as culture. They can write all of the internal rules that they want, but when you know that you must behave a certain way to keep your bread and butter, to get along with coworkers and your boss, there's only one likely outcome.

 

[Brightmoon]

The police were used for almost a century to keep darker skinned minorities from moving freely in society. A lot of time they were the ones doing the abusing . With the encouragement of the government. The systemic abuse of minorities started to become illegal and some people haven’t figured that out . A lot of them are police. Minorities are sick and tired of this. They’re tired of being treated like we deserve the abuse because somehow ( according to them ) we’re less than . We stopped believing those lies long ago and are tired of waiting for fair treatment. Being stopped for a minor traffic violation shouldn’t be a reason to fear for your life

 

[Brightmoon]

Half my neighbors are probably here illegally. They don’t commit many crimes

 

[thecolorsblend]

Half my neighbors are probably here illegally. They don’t commit many crimes

Apart from entering the country illegally and getting jobs that theoretically could've gone to someone else, you mean?

 

[Brightmoon]

Apart from entering the country illegally and getting jobs that theoretically could've gone to someone else, you mean?

that happens any time you look for a new job . Polish your resume! Not that you’re going to look for the types of jobs they get. I see the women illegally selling fruit and cakes on the subway and onthe sidewalk . I warn them if I see the police . I rather they do that than steal because they’re starving.

 

[thecolorsblend]

that happens any time you look for a new job

My employment has never been a legally dubious proposition that costs somebody else anything. Countries have borders. Borders are real. And borders must be protected.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I remember when Trump ran for President he was talking about building a wall to keep the Illegals out because they were bringing drugs into the Country, and lots of people called him racist because he didn’t recognize many illegals are honest, hard working people who are only looking for a better life. IOW he was accused of painting all illegals with a single broad brush.

Now; some of these same people who accused Trump of painting all illegals with a broad brush are doing the same thing to the Police! Some guy is killed by police in Minnesota, and 1000 miles away people in my city are protesting that they want police reform. Don’t they realize the policies and rules that govern the Police departments vary from state to state, even from city to city? If I want to reform the police department in Seattle, I need to know the policies already in place in the Seattle police department, and what it is what I want to change. If I want to reform the police department because I am constantly harassed by the police in my city, the harassment may have nothing to do with the policies in place; it could be just a case of some cops breaking police policy in order to harass me. Getting rid of the cops breaking police policy would fix the problem; not getting rid of the policy already in place.

Your thoughts?

What makes you think the protesters in Seattle don’t have issues with the police in Seattle?

 

[Ken-1122]

The police were used for almost a century to keep darker skinned minorities from moving freely in society. A lot of time they were the ones doing the abusing . With the encouragement of the government. The systemic abuse of minorities started to become illegal and some people haven’t figured that out . A lot of them are police. Minorities are sick and tired of this. They’re tired of being treated like we deserve the abuse because somehow ( according to them ) we’re less than . We stopped believing those lies long ago and are tired of waiting for fair treatment. Being stopped for a minor traffic violation shouldn’t be a reason to fear for your life

Do you think the problem is your Cities police policies, or the cops?

 

[Radagast]

Don’t they realize the policies and rules that govern the Police departments vary from state to state, even from city to city? If I want to reform the police department in Seattle, I need to know the policies already in place in the Seattle police department, and what it is what I want to change.

No, they don't realise that. Most of what CHOP was asking for had already been implemented by the Seattle PD.

 

[Ken-1122]

What makes you think the protesters in Seattle don’t have issues with the police in Seattle?

Since 2012 the Seattle Police department has been under a federal oversight consent degree. This consent degree required that the Seattle Police emphasize de-escalation tactics, and establish new use-of-force policies, and have better oversight and community involvement. Seattle has since been said to have become a national leader in crisis response training and a low rate of using force during crisis.

City, DOJ file motions to terminate Seattle Police Department's consent decree

These are policies that have been put in place. It doesn’t mean that there aren’t any cops that are breaking the policies, if the protesters have issues with the police in Seattle, they need to determine if it is a cop issue or a policy issue and fight to change which ever it is. I will bet few protesters are even aware of this policy shift that has been in place for the past 8 years.

 

[Kenny'sID]

This isn't the fault of the police in general, it's the fault of the bad apples of police departments, and the people that hire them.

Floyd's death could have easily been prevented....the complaints on the officer that murdered him were right there, but they weren't used, just that simple. Make complaints easy to file on cops and get serious about using those complaints, as well as screening for cops with mental issues like even mild insecurities and cops that would tend to be on a power trip.

As for the protesters, some say they have gone too far, I say, yes and no to that. Had they not done what many would call over the line protesting or rioting, I have serious doubts they would have arrested and filed charges against the murderer Cop, at least not so quickly (should have been arrested immediately). Something had to finally get the establishments attention for several reasons.

But there is point where the protests/riots must end, and don't ask me when they have made their point enough or not...IDK. Can anyone say they have gotten the attein of the powers that be even yet, or will it all go right back to what is was very soon?

Things need to change badly, but doing stupid things like defending police departments are not the answer, and as OP says, make no real sense at all.

Don’t they realize the policies and rules that govern the Police departments vary from state to state, even from city to city?

Make strict rules for all states to follow. Just like we clearly can't mess around with states to make their own rules about wearing masks, we can't let some states piddle around with too lax a rules that don't stop the cop problems.

ALL offending officer should be treated just like a citizen by getting arrested and such, at least until things are sorted out. If a cop hired is found bad, especially if they had a bad record before hiring, fire those that hired the bad cop, or worse, jail them for overlooking proper procedure. Things like that will help.

It's not all cops that are the problem but it is many of them and we just need to get serious about the rules as well as enforcing them, and they really have not done that up to now. Do that or pay the price...again.

 

[Ken-1122]

Things need to change badly, but doing stupid things like defending police departments are not the answer, and as OP says, make no real sense at all.

If the police department policies in Seattle has nothing to do with what happened in Minneapolis, why are people protesting to change policies in Seattle?

 

[trunks2k]

If the police department policies in Seattle has nothing to do with what happened in Minneapolis, why are people protesting to change policies in Seattle?

Because they have issues with how their police departments are run and how their police act. The event in Minneapolis was just a catalyst to push for the needed change. "Look what happened over there. The sort of thing that led to that is happening here too. Enough is enough, things need to change before it happens here"

Here in Philadelphia, we likewise had protests against the police. Honestly, the way the police acted in several of the protests (including one a block from my own house - it's a long story) really exposed how much the department needs reform.

 

[Kenny'sID]

If the police department policies in Seattle has nothing to do with what happened in Minneapolis, why are people protesting to change policies in Seattle?

Why ask me? That doesn't seem to have anything to do with my post.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Since 2012 the Seattle Police department has been under a federal oversight consent degree. This consent degree required that the Seattle Police emphasize de-escalation tactics, and establish new use-of-force policies, and have better oversight and community involvement. Seattle has since been said to have become a national leader in crisis response training and a low rate of using force during crisis.

City, DOJ file motions to terminate Seattle Police Department's consent decree

These are policies that have been put in place. It doesn’t mean that there aren’t any cops that are breaking the policies, if the protesters have issues with the police in Seattle, they need to determine if it is a cop issue or a policy issue and fight to change which ever it is. I will bet few protesters are even aware of this policy shift that has been in place for the past 8 years.

I can't speak for the residents of Seattle, but *everybody* here in Baltimore is aware of our consent decree. And just because the police have entered into such an agreement doesn't mean that things have all been cleared up. From what I see in the documents, Phase 2 is the maintenance period in which they're supposed to demonstrate that they can keep complying - so, by the standards of the decree, they're only been meeting their goals for two years.
Settlement Agreement History - Police | seattle.gov

 

[Ken-1122]

Because they have issues with how their police departments are run and how their police act.

Then figure out where the problem is! Don't throw the good out with the bad, throw out only the bad.

 

[Albion]

I remember when Trump ran for President he was talking about building a wall to keep the Illegals out because they were bringing drugs into the Country, and lots of people called him racist because he didn’t recognize many illegals are honest, hard working people who are only looking for a better life. IOW he was accused of painting all illegals with a single broad brush.

But in fact, in that very speech that is so often referred to by critics and in which he stated that some of the illegals are rapists, etc. he also said explicitly that other illegals are NOT like that.

Naturally, that part never is mentioned by the opponents of the President.

Now; some of these same people who accused Trump of painting all illegals with a broad brush are doing the same thing to the Police! Some guy is killed by police in Minnesota, and 1000 miles away people in my city are protesting that they want police reform.

If I want to reform the police department because I am constantly harassed by the police in my city, the harassment may have nothing to do with the policies in place; it could be just a case of some cops breaking police policy in order to harass me. Getting rid of the cops breaking police policy would fix the problem; not getting rid of the policy already in place.

You are right about that. However, it wouldn't serve the larger interests of Antifa or its co-workers if what you point to were to be acknowledged and addressed.

 

[Ken-1122]

I can't speak for the residents of Seattle, but *everybody* here in Baltimore is aware of our consent decree. And just because the police have entered into such an agreement doesn't mean that things have all been cleared up. From what I see in the documents, Phase 2 is the maintenance period in which they're supposed to demonstrate that they can keep complying - so, by the standards of the decree, they're only been meeting their goals for two years.
Settlement Agreement History - Police | seattle.gov

True! Change did not happen over night, but it did happen and for the past 2 years they have been meeting the standards. So what do they want to change? Do they want to get rid of the consent degree and replace it with something else? These are the questions they need to answer

 

[Arc F1]

Half my neighbors are probably here illegally. They don’t commit many crimes

I have a different take on Illegals due to my experience. Being in construction I've been around thousands and thousands of Illegals.