My Pet Challenge II

[pgp_protector]

i understand you don't wish to discuss why you say human beings are "animals".

You can choose not to.

You did, however, bring it up.

Jus' sayin'

What part of start a new thread do you not understand?

 

[AV1611VET]

You're the one saying if we're Animals God has to be An Animal
So if We're human by that same logic, God has to be Human.

God is a Person.

 

[pgp_protector]

God is a Person.

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

 

[AV1611VET]

It's off topic for the OP if you want to have that discussion start your own thread. I don't feel like in a warning for derailing a thread

Don't worry.

I don't report people for going off-topic or saying something I didn't particularly like.

And I don't have a set of tarot cards with an "off topic" card in it.

And I don't play Netiquette police.

 

[AV1611VET]

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

It sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.

IOW, it sounds like you guys want to consider us (and yourselves) "animals, made in the image & likeness of God."

 

[AV1611VET]

If you can't understand it, I can't help you.

Is Jesus an animal?

 

[pgp_protector]

Is Jesus an animal?

Yes, Humans are Animals, and Jesus was fully Human.

 

[SkyWriting]

Will there be any animals in Hell?

I'm under the impression that they do not partake in the afterlife given
that the beefy ones are served up by McDonald's. Not at McDonalds.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Will there be any animals in Hell?

Hey look, a sequel!

I can answer it exactly the same as the first:
The souls of man are immortal, created special and exclusive from animals. Animal souls do not have such attributes. When they die, they go into that eternal sleep atheists so desire.

 

[bhsmte]

Clarity would need to come from the one whose post appeared to express confusion.

I'm willing to help, of course.

i'm helpful like that.

He actually made it quite clear, on more than one occasion.

What is confusing about it to you?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Impressive.

Ok, brother in Christ. 'tis good to know that you are not confused about reconciling our God as Creator with us, the created, who were created in His image.

What does that mean?

Honestly brinny....I've always had trouble with the whole "man was created in god's image" passage. How does god have an image? Does he have a body? Does he reflect light?

I only ask because I've heard so many things about god from christians that makes it seem like he can't be seen. I've heard he's "immaterial" or "infinite" or that if he were to appear before you...your head would explode (no joke...I've actually heard that). All these things make it seem like not only does god not have an image, but if he didn't...you wouldn't be able to see it.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

edit

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Gods image for the Catholic is spiritual, ie we are immortal souls.

In medieval psychology there was the animal soul, the human soul snd the divine soul. (anima bruta, humana and divina). In Islam it is said we can go lower than the animals, by engaging in lusts and uncontrolled desires, when we have reason. Or, elevate higher than the angels, because (IIRC) we control ourselves and relate to spiritual truths freely. Theres the old analogy of the charioteer trying to control the horses of the senses and materieally bonded aspect of us. That would be the "higher" over the "lower" - the intelligent controlling the less rational.

Nowadays it is often said that we are "just brains" - and even though science reminds us of "hindbrain, midbrain and forebrain" which relate to the traditional division - theres not that much of the institutionalised culture, in secular society, of a moralistic or religiously relevant ontological division of the psyche.

In fact nowadays being an "animal" is a pop theme, whereas being a "divine" (i.e. cleric or a theologian) is scorned.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Gods image for the Catholic is spiritual, ie we are immortal souls. .

I'm not sure what you mean by that...

Is god's image something you can see?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I'm not sure what you mean by that...

Is god's image something you can see?

No, IIRC in the catechesism it is a spiritual not material image. Maybe they mean transcendent, irreducible to flesh and bones. In Islam the equivalent to our spirit might be "ruh", (which is from the rame root as ther hebrew "ruach") and the Muslim is given little knowledge of it. The Koran says so. Yet, we would still be reserected if we were "stones and iron".

 

[Ana the Ist]

No

Well, I'll admit I can't really understand that Growing...

An image you cannot see is as useful as a sound you can't hear. How would one determine that man is made in god's image without being able to see it?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I think its an analogy, you cant see "moral instincts" for instance, or "calculation" etc. But they exist. You cant see "consciousness" (if its defined as the condition of there being appearances) but its still there. So its not an image in the sense of a material body, but a "spiritual" thing in an alleged different mode of being than the material.


In the Cathiolic faith IIRC theres the natural, and the supernatural, and in between the preternatural which is where the soul IIRC (or mind) concept fits in. Of course secularists might speak of irredicibility of mind, and get away with it, on the basis that its not a "religious concept"...?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I think its an analogy, you cant see "moral instincts" for instance, or "calculation" etc. But they exist. You cant see "consciousness" (if its defined as the condition of there being appearances) but its still there. So its not an image in the sense of a material body, but a "spiritual" thing in an alleged different mode of being than the material.


In the Cathiolic faith IIRC theres the natural, and the supernatural, and in between the preternatural which is where the soul IIRC (or mind) concept fits in. Of course secularists might speak of irredicibility of mind, and get away with it, on the basis that its not a "religious concept"...?

So what is meant by man is made in the image of god?

It's not saying that man and god appear similar?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I think its an analogy, you cant see "moral instincts" for instance, or "calculation" etc. But they exist. You cant see "consciousness" (if its defined as the condition of there being appearances) but its still there. So its not an image in the sense of a material body, but a "spiritual" thing in an alleged different mode of being than the material.


In the Cathiolic faith IIRC theres the natural, and the supernatural, and in between the preternatural which is where the soul IIRC (or mind) concept fits in. Of course secularists might speak of irredicibility of mind, and get away with it, on the basis that its not a "religious concept"...?

I guess the problem is that you keep throwing the word "spiritual" out there and it's pretty meaningless to me. Can we just start there?

Tell me what "spiritual" is...

Don't tell me what spiritual isn't. Don't use some analogy. Just be direct and tell me what spiritual is.

 

[In situ]

Will there be any animals in Hell?

In a world full of magic anything is possible!

(I don't acknowledge a hell, so I must personally say 'no' since there is no hell to send them to. But in a world of magic...)