My one and only objection to scripture...?

[Goatee]

Yes, it would be awesome to know 'all' the teachings of Christ. Some, I do believe, have been passed down via Apostolic Tradition / Succession.

Maybe, the 'other' Gospels not in the Bible show some of these other teachings? Who knows! Maybe, the Church at the time didn't like some of these 'other' teachings as it went against their doctrine?

As a Catholic I am inclined to believe this. Yes, i love the CC but I also think that some books / scripture could have been pushed to one side as it did not fit in with how the church wanted things to go!

 

[Ron Gurley]

John 20:30-31 (NIV); 21:25...that you may BELIEVE...the historical BOOKS!
30 Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples,
which are not recorded in this book.
31 But these are written that you may BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,
and that by believing you may have life in his name.
21:25 Jesus did many other things as well.
If every one of them were written down,
I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

God's spirit communicates with Man's spirit...PRIMARILY through the miraculous Bible...Which points to God the Son, Jesus the Divine Messiah.

Job 11:7
“ Can you discover the depths of God?
Can you discover the limits of the Almighty?

Ecclesiastes 3:11
He has made everything beautiful in its time.
He has also set eternity in the human heart; (spirit)
yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

Isaiah 40:28
Do you not know? Have you not heard?
The LORD is the everlasting God,
the Creator of the ends of the earth.
He will not grow tired or weary,
and his understanding (wisdom?) no one can fathom.

Zechariah 12: 1b (NASB)
Thus declares the Lord who stretches out the heavens,
lays the foundation of the earth, and
forms the spirit of man within him,

1 Corinthians 2: 6-10
...but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery,
the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;
the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood;...
For to us God revealed them (things unseen) through the Spirit; (God the Holy Spirit)
for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God....

 

[CGL1023]

My one and only objection to scripture is that, we do not have more from the people in it/them about their private conversations with God...

Cause of this we lack the "how" of how people in the scriptures got here to there or there to here, so to speak...

Like Joseph's private probably daily conversations with God, Jesus private converse with God when he went off by himself to pray or his conversations with God as a boy, or Paul's three years spent away with God, or, "whomever" (pick one)...

Point being without knowledge of these things we can only speculate or guess, and that is usually wrong most of time...

I wish we had more of the private conversations of Biblical characters with God... Oh, but, then, how would the world contain them all...?

I wish we had some more insight into these things however, and that is one of my main objections to scripture...

Think of what we would or could know or understand with more of that...?

Maybe, for some fun, you guys could tell me what characters you'd like to have more of this of or from and why...?

Or we could engage in some speculation as to what some of this with certain characters might have been like...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

My one and only objection to scripture is that, we do not have more from the people in it/them about their private conversations with God...

Cause of this we lack the "how" of how people in the scriptures got here to there or there to here, so to speak...

Like Joseph's private probably daily conversations with God, Jesus private converse with God when he went off by himself to pray or his conversations with God as a boy, or Paul's three years spent away with God, or, "whomever" (pick one)...

Point being without knowledge of these things we can only speculate or guess, and that is usually wrong most of time...

I wish we had more of the private conversations of Biblical characters with God... Oh, but, then, how would the world contain them all...?

I wish we had some more insight into these things however, and that is one of my main objections to scripture...

Think of what we would or could know or understand with more of that...?

Maybe, for some fun, you guys could tell me what characters you'd like to have more of this of or from and why...?

Or we could engage in some speculation as to what some of this with certain characters might have been like...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

I personally believe that everything spoken by humans is recorded and excerpts could have been included in the Bible. At the same time we can recall that John said that if the complete story of Jesus were written, the library required to store it would have filled the earth.
My only point is that, at some point, practicality must be considered. I am sure that many people think the bible is too large already. I wouldn't have minded a little more detail in certain areas but it wasn't to be.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

My one and only objection to scripture is that, we do not have more from the people in it/them about their private conversations with God...

Cause of this we lack the "how" of how people in the scriptures got here to there or there to here, so to speak...

Like Joseph's private probably daily conversations with God, Jesus private converse with God when he went off by himself to pray or his conversations with God as a boy, or Paul's three years spent away with God, or, "whomever" (pick one)...

Point being without knowledge of these things we can only speculate or guess, and that is usually wrong most of time...

I wish we had more of the private conversations of Biblical characters with God... Oh, but, then, how would the world contain them all...?

I wish we had some more insight into these things however, and that is one of my main objections to scripture...

Think of what we would or could know or understand with more of that...?

Maybe, for some fun, you guys could tell me what characters you'd like to have more of this of or from and why...?

Or we could engage in some speculation as to what some of this with certain characters might have been like...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Quite a few from David in the Pslams. Some of them pretty hard core.

 

[Anguspure]

My one and only objection to scripture is that, we do not have more from the people in it/them about their private conversations with God...

Cause of this we lack the "how" of how people in the scriptures got here to there or there to here, so to speak...

Like Joseph's private probably daily conversations with God, Jesus private converse with God when he went off by himself to pray or his conversations with God as a boy, or Paul's three years spent away with God, or, "whomever" (pick one)...

Point being without knowledge of these things we can only speculate or guess, and that is usually wrong most of time...

I wish we had more of the private conversations of Biblical characters with God... Oh, but, then, how would the world contain them all...?

I wish we had some more insight into these things however, and that is one of my main objections to scripture...

Think of what we would or could know or understand with more of that...?

Maybe, for some fun, you guys could tell me what characters you'd like to have more of this of or from and why...?

Or we could engage in some speculation as to what some of this with certain characters might have been like...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

The Bible says very little about the private happenings of any intimate and close relationship for the same reason: these things are private and intimate between those who have the special relationship and not to be aired for public consideration.

 

[Phantasman]

My one and only objection to scripture is that, we do not have more from the people in it/them about their private conversations with God...

Cause of this we lack the "how" of how people in the scriptures got here to there or there to here, so to speak...

Like Joseph's private probably daily conversations with God, Jesus private converse with God when he went off by himself to pray or his conversations with God as a boy, or Paul's three years spent away with God, or, "whomever" (pick one)...

Point being without knowledge of these things we can only speculate or guess, and that is usually wrong most of time...

I wish we had more of the private conversations of Biblical characters with God... Oh, but, then, how would the world contain them all...?

I wish we had some more insight into these things however, and that is one of my main objections to scripture...

Think of what we would or could know or understand with more of that...?

Maybe, for some fun, you guys could tell me what characters you'd like to have more of this of or from and why...?

Or we could engage in some speculation as to what some of this with certain characters might have been like...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

It's a good question. I'll give my "controversial" answer.

First, I believe Jesus became Christ (son of God) at the Chrism. Which is what the word Christ means. What happened before the "christening of the spirit of God" wouldn't benefit us at all. When Jesus received the Holy Spirit at the Chrism, he immediately started his teachings (for the next 3 or so years).

Second, there are many books written about his teachings that are non Canon. Those who are held by the belief that the Bible creators knew what was and what wasn't of God the Father, will only understand by the limits placed on them by men, not God. IMO, the "other" Gospels and books shine a great light and understanding on the Canon Gospels and Paul, and the beliefs of those Christians in the first through third centuries before the Roman church considered itself the only truth. To me, the early Christians believed so strongly, that they faced death in arena's, at the hands of the Jews, and at the hand of Rome itself. It strive to understand what they knew that was different than what we have today. There was a great division in those times, and I want to see it for myself rather than take the words of the 4th century "church" that made themselves celestial authority over man.

Thirdly, through my many (decades) of times in study and prayer, the Gospel message is what I key in on. Though the OT is beneficial to understand what led the Jews, I see the OT is more what not to do than to do. If they didn't know Jesus when he came.....why? To me,the OT was a show of only faith, without the truth (which is Christ). Jesus said those men died because they didn't have the spiritual knowledge of truth. John 6:32 John 6:58

Fourth, if Jesus was truth and the way (to life) and we only can come to the Father by him, why repeat to learn what the Jews knew? When I read the non Canon Gospels and books, it gave me (personally) a greater insight and knowledge of Jesus, the Canon Gospels and Pauls letters. While it escalated an understanding of of a more complete understanding of Christ and his words, it places the OT into a gray area that I no longer see beneficial to truth (of God the Father).

The sword was to separate the (love of) flesh from the (knowledge of) spirit, where true life exists from the living God.

 

[Goatee]

It's a good question. I'll give my "controversial" answer.

First, I believe Jesus became Christ (son of God) at the Chrism. Which is what the word Christ means. What happened before the "christening of the spirit of God" wouldn't benefit us at all. When Jesus received the Holy Spirit at the Chrism, he immediately started his teachings (for the next 3 or so years).

Second, there are many books written about his teachings that are non Canon. Those who are held by the belief that the Bible creators knew what was and what wasn't of God the Father, will only understand by the limits placed on them by men, not God. IMO, the "other" Gospels and books shine a great light and understanding on the Canon Gospels and Paul, and the beliefs of those Christians in the first through third centuries before the Roman church considered itself the only truth. To me, the early Christians believed so strongly, that they faced death in arena's, at the hands of the Jews, and at the hand of Rome itself. It strive to understand what they knew that was different than what we have today. There was a great division in those times, and I want to see it for myself rather than take the words of the 4th century "church" that made themselves celestial authority over man.

Thirdly, through my many (decades) of times in study and prayer, the Gospel message is what I key in on. Though the OT is beneficial to understand what led the Jews, I see the OT is more what not to do than to do. If they didn't know Jesus when he came.....why? To me,the OT was a show of only faith, without the truth (which is Christ). Jesus said those men died because they didn't have the spiritual knowledge of truth. John 6:32 John 6:58

Fourth, if Jesus was truth and the way (to life) and we only can come to the Father by him, why repeat to learn what the Jews knew? When I read the non Canon Gospels and books, it gave me (personally) a greater insight and knowledge of Jesus, the Canon Gospels and Pauls letters. While it escalated an understanding of of a more complete understanding of Christ and his words, it places the OT into a gray area that I no longer see beneficial to truth (of God the Father).

The sword was to separate the (love of) flesh from the (knowledge of) spirit, where true life exists from the living God.

Which non Canon Gospels would you recommend reading please? Ta

 

[Phantasman]

Which non Canon Gospels would you recommend reading please? Ta

Philip and Thomas. Thomas could have been as early as the first Gospel. It is a sayings Gospel. Only words Jesus spoke, so no Acts of Christ like Canon. Philip is a collection of previous sermons and content floating around the 2nd century during the great division.

Valentinians wrote the Gospel of Truth. I found it........interestingly beneficial. It's best to learn who Valentinus is first and why he wrote the GoT.

Clement of Alexandria records that his followers said that Valentinus was a follower of Theudas, and that Theudas in turn was a follower of St. Paul the Apostle.[5] Valentinus said that Theudas imparted to him the secret wisdom that Paul had taught privately to his inner circle, which Paul publicly referred to in connection with his visionary encounter with the risen Christ (Romans 16:25; 1 Corinthians 2:7; 2 Corinthians 12:2-4; Acts 9:9-10), when he received the secret teaching from him.[citation needed] Such esoteric teachings were downplayed in Rome after the mid-2nd century.[6]

We know that there was a great divide in Pauls Jerusalem church and the Roman church. Valentinus followed Paul (so to speak) and emerging Catholicism took in the Roman church.
When you study history and learn of both sides, you maybe a surprised as I was. It was a life changing experience for me.

 

[SeventyOne]

Which non Canon Gospels would you recommend reading please? Ta

I'd be very careful about that. For example, the gospel of Thomas recommended to you contains the words, "Simon Peter said to them: Let Mary go forth from among us, for women are not worthy of the life. Jesus said: Behold, I shall lead her, that I may make her male, in order that she also may become a living spirit like you males. For every woman who makes herself male shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."

If that isn't grounds for immediate rejection, nothing is.

 

[Phantasman]

I'd be very careful about that. For example, the gospel of Thomas recommended to you contains the words, "Simon Peter said to them: Let Mary go forth from among us, for women are not worthy of the life. Jesus said: Behold, I shall lead her, that I may make her male, in order that she also may become a living spirit like you males. For every woman who makes herself male shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."

If that isn't grounds for immediate rejection, nothing is.

Without spiritual knowledge you see flesh (physical) like the world does. Anyone can read words, but Jesus says "let him who has ears, listen". Why do you think Jesus said:

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. -John

The second part is not a question. It is a statement.

Jesus wasn't patriarch. Peter was. Peter was shown to be an arrogant disciple who struggled with understanding. The kingdom has no (physical) gender. The physical (world) does. See the spiritual message, not the physical.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.- John

 

[Goatee]

I'd be very careful about that. For example, the gospel of Thomas recommended to you contains the words, "Simon Peter said to them: Let Mary go forth from among us, for women are not worthy of the life. Jesus said: Behold, I shall lead her, that I may make her male, in order that she also may become a living spirit like you males. For every woman who makes herself male shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."

If that isn't grounds for immediate rejection, nothing is.

But, you are reading it in a literal way. That could be wrong.

 

[SeventyOne]

But, you are reading it in a literal way. That could be wrong.

Unbelievable. You've been warned. Do whatever you want.

 

[razzelflabben]

One of the problems with the OP assertion is found in Romans 8:26-27 (HCSB) 26 In the same way the Spirit also joins to help in our weakness, because we do not know what to pray for as we should, 27 And He who searches the hearts knows the Spirit’s mind-set, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Much of our prayer life is about the Holy Spirit interceding with words we can't utter.

 

[Phantasman]

Unbelievable. You've been warned. Do whatever you want.

Warned? By who? Or what?

There are doors. If you don't want to open them, fine. Orthodoxy teaches that there are monsters on the other side. And you are safe if you keep them closed.

Luke:
9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Thomas says nothing that Jesus didn't teach in Canon. It only enhances the understanding. The Canon Gospels and Paul are truth. And they rise above the ignorance that surrounds them when they are understood (in a more complete understanding).

Paul:
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

The Priest of Rome became as the Pharisee's when they adopted murderer to promote their ideology. (4th century)

Thomas:
Jesus said, "The pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge (gnosis) and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to. You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves."

Philip:
For truth is like ignorance: while it is hidden, it rests in itself, but when it is revealed and is recognized, it is praised, inasmuch as it is stronger than ignorance and error. It gives freedom. The Word said, "If you know the truth, the truth will make you free" (Jn 8:32). Ignorance is a slave. Knowledge is freedom.

It all fits to the spiritual mind.

 

[Goatee]

Unbelievable. You've been warned. Do whatever you want.

Unbelievable that people read it with modern eyes and interpret it as they see fit!

I put my trust in God, not in other people's interpretations. Nothing to be worried about. 70AD was the time of Revelation prophecy coming to fruition.

 

[Phantasman]

Unbelievable that people read it with modern eyes and interpret it as they see fit!

I put my trust in God, not in other people's interpretations. Nothing to be worried about. 70AD was the time of Revelation prophecy coming to fruition.

Agreed. When Jesus (or even James after Jesus) sent out the disciples, he sent them by two's. Where two or more are gathered, right? Yet the (new) church has one who is made teacher.

Mark:
7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
8 And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse:
9 But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.
10 And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into an house, there abide till ye depart from that place.

How beautiful their faith, that they would be taken care of. The "church" was the houses that changed frequently due to Christian prosecution. The disciples (less John) died violent savage deaths at the hands of the ignorant. Thomas was skinned alive. Peter burned alive.

I pray for such faith. Today's faith isn't tested by comparison.

When Philip says that truth came into the world in types and images, I believe it. Parables were images Jesus used effectively. It's so much more than a Sunday service for the week.

 

[toLiJC]

My one and only objection to scripture is that, we do not have more from the people in it/them about their private conversations with God...

Cause of this we lack the "how" of how people in the scriptures got here to there or there to here, so to speak...

Like Joseph's private probably daily conversations with God, Jesus private converse with God when he went off by himself to pray or his conversations with God as a boy, or Paul's three years spent away with God, or, "whomever" (pick one)...

Point being without knowledge of these things we can only speculate or guess, and that is usually wrong most of time...

I wish we had more of the private conversations of Biblical characters with God... Oh, but, then, how would the world contain them all...?

I wish we had some more insight into these things however, and that is one of my main objections to scripture...

Think of what we would or could know or understand with more of that...?

Maybe, for some fun, you guys could tell me what characters you'd like to have more of this of or from and why...?

Or we could engage in some speculation as to what some of this with certain characters might have been like...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

the very practice of faith is something personal and cannot be shared just like that, and practicing the faith right is a matter of having intimate(innermost) communication(interaction) with God, which implies that the worshiper has to enter through the small gate and (the) narrow way of the true faith i.e. avoiding the "world" spiritual/religious traditions

Blessings