My, my, my......how the tune changes.....

[Hazelelponi]

The "people's house" phrase gets overused. Those folks had NO right to steal and vandalize offices and threaten to hang or kill or harm and beat officers and kill an officer, or even to break in at all.
IF it is the "people's house', then it is also the house of a great many Americans who were appalled at the behavior of the mob.

The attempted insurrection was carried out by The Oathkeepers, the Proud Boys, the Boogaloo Bois, Qanon conspiracy theorists and other Trump supporters.

IF Trump supporters wanted to claim the Big Lie was in fact true, they needed to pursue legal means - oh yeah, they did. 60 plus times. No grounds to overturn the votes of millions.

In Court, Trump's Lawyers Aren't Claiming 'Massive' Fraud

Nearly two weeks after the election was called for President-elect Joe Biden, Donald Trump and his legal team continue to advance spurious and dangerous claims that the election was “rigged.” In a press conference on Nov. 19, Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani called the election a “massive fraud,” while an attorney for the Trump campaign, Sidney Powell, alleged without evidence a wide-ranging scheme perpetrated by “massive influence of communist money.” She also appeared to suggest a revolution, comparing this moment to “the 1775 of our generation and beyond.”

But Trump and his allies’ public allegations stand in stark contrast to what his lawyers are actually claiming— bound by professional ethics rules—in election-related cases in court. In three separate lawsuits in Pennsylvania and cases in Arizona and Nevada, Trump’s lawyers have jettisoned sweeping claims of fraud, instead focusing on relatively small-bore complaints......

Pennsylvania
In a recent Pennsylvania federal case, Giuliani alleged “widespread, nationwide voter fraud” in his opening remarks. But under questioning from the judge, he retreated. “This is not a fraud case,” Giuliani later admitted. In the same case, Trump lawyer Linda Kearns said explicitly that she is “not proceeding” on allegations of fraud.
​

Hmmm ......so when there is a consequence to lying, Guiliani and Kearns don't claim fraud. lol

BLM had no right to wreak havoc all summer long in nearly every city in this nation for months on end, murdering all who stood in their way doing billions of dollars (in the plural) worth of property damage and theft either while law enforcement and governing officials stood idly by..... but all we hear to this day is that those were "mostly peaceful" protests...

Well, at the Capital were over a million people who were "mostly peaceful" and only a thousand or so who got out of hand and ended up contributing to a couple thousand dollars in damage and one death - cops killed the others who died (but of course that was justified because they were white people, right?)

The democratic party mouth pieces need to stop being so utterly hypocritical...at this point it's sickening.

 

[FreeinChrist]

BLM had no right to wreak havoc all summer long in nearly every city in this nation for months on end, murdering all who stood in their way doing billions of dollars (in the plural) worth of property damage and theft either while law enforcement and governing officials stood idly by..... but all we hear to this day is that those were "mostly peaceful" protests...

Well, at the Capital were over a million people who were "mostly peaceful" and only a thousand or so who got out of hand and ended up contributing to a couple thousand dollars in damage and one death - cops killed the others who died (but of course that was justified because they were white people, right?)

So stop being so utterly hypocritical...at this point it's sickening.

BLM was not wreaking havoc. Others took advantage of the protests including the Proud Boys and the Boogaloo Bois. "Murdering all who stood in their way" - hyperbole much? Editing to add that Antifa and gangs, and homeless youth were causing problems too.


"over a million people who were "mostly peaceful" at the Capitol? Back that number up because there were not a million protestors at the Capitol that day. Claiming there were a million peaceful protestors at the Capitol is just plain not true.

And last time I am mentioning it in this thread, it is not about me personally. I find many comments utterly sickening but do not attack the member saying it.

 

[Hazelelponi]

BLM was not wreaking havoc. Others took advantage of the protests including the Proud Boys and the Boogaloo Bois. "Murdering all who stood in their way" - hyperbole much?

"over a million people who were "mostly peaceful" at the Capitol? Back that number up because there were not a million protestors at the Capitol that day. Claiming there were a million peaceful protestors at the Capitol is just plain not true.

And last time I am mentioning it in this thread, it is not about me personally. I find many comments utterly sickening but do not attack the member saying it.

What a joke... for real. This entire post utterly and completely disregards a reality we actually lived through and experienced first hand, and recently at that. Rewriting It To Fit Their False Narrative.

I understand the pietists now...how exactly does anyone live in a world just this evil anyway...

 

[FreeinChrist]

What a joke... for real. This entire post utterly and completely disregards a reality we actually lived through and experienced first hand, and recently at that. Rewriting It To Fit Their False Narrative.

I understand the pietists now...how exactly does anyone live in a world just this evil anyway...

Note the lack of any support for the claims made in your posts, just ad hominems.

 

[timothyu]

Theatrics. So called insurrectionists who realistically never had a chance of overthrowing anything, but giving the appearance of doing so, has as a result allowed the people to agree to fence off of the Capitol and a military presence on the streets of DC for who knows how long. A coup may have been made but not by those being accused, if you look at the only people to have befitted from all this. And no one pays attention to the anarchists who are attacking both right and left, because those partisan fools are too busy blaming each other. Destabilization 101.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Note the lack of any support for the claims made in your posts, just ad hominems.

Look. When all the left is doing is gaslighting the right, we can't have an adult conversation based on facts.

I've never seen anything like this in my entire life... never, until this day. And the fact it's coming out of the mouths of Christians makes me loose faith in humanity itself.... because if those who claim to know true God of true God can't speak truth over partisan insanity, then where are we as a human race?

Just where do we go from here?

I'd put you on ignore, but the system won't let me... so please just ignore me, and stop talking to me.

My husband says I need to stop treating others like they are intelligent, rational, reasonable adults and start treating them like children to be taught. Maybe he's right, but I never even spoke to my children like children, I taught them to think everything through with reason based on truth... so I have no idea how to have these conversations anymore. I really just don't.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Look. When all the left is doing is gaslighting the right, we can't have an adult conversation based on facts.

I've never seen anything like this in my entire life... never, until this day. And the fact it's coming out of the mouths of Christians makes me loose faith in humanity itself.... because if those who claim to know true God of true God can't speak truth over partisan insanity, then where are we as a human race?

Just where do we go from here?

I'd put you on ignore, but the system won't let me... so please just ignore me, and stop talking to me.

My husband says I need to stop treating others like they are intelligent, rational, reasonable adults and start treating them like children to be taught. Maybe he's right, but I never even spoke to my children like children, I taught them to think everything through with reason based on truth... so I have no idea how to have these conversations anymore. I really just don't.

In turn, do not respond to me. Your first post in this thread was in response to one of mine, and all I have seen is insults and ad hominems and no back up support for claims.
That is what is in the post I just quoted - insults and ad hominems.

FWIW, if I looked at much of the evangelical Christianity today, the ones who are right wing, I would walk away from Christianity. HOWEVER, as the focus of my faith is Christ and I always was taught to keep my eyes on Jesus, I am sticking with Him.

 

[rambot]

BLM had no right to wreak havoc all summer long in nearly every city in this nation for months on end, murdering all who stood in their way doing billions of dollars (in the plural) worth of property damage and theft either while law enforcement and governing officials stood idly by..... but all we hear to this day is that those were "mostly peaceful" protests...

It's funny that the people who decry mainstream media lies are willing to ignore mainstream media but then ALSO willing to ignore scientific study and data.
I wonder if there's a connection there.
95% had no violence.
Of those that had violence, far right organizations played a part in many of them.

We get that you dislike BLM but you've bought into sources that have misrepresented everything that was happenning.

Well, at the Capital were over a million people who were "mostly peaceful" and only a thousand or so who got out of hand and ended up contributing to a couple thousand dollars in damage and one death - cops killed the others who died (but of course that was justified because they were white people, right?)
.

A million? That's a perversion.
Experts say it was difficult to get a hard number because how things were spread out. Experts think that 10,000 is a very likely number. That 100,000 is beyond reality. To believe a million indicates you don't know how many a million looks like.

The democratic party mouth pieces need to stop being so utterly hypocritical...at this point it's sickening

Here's the scene.
It's not that we're being hypocritical, it's that right wing doesn't seem capable of comparing apples to apples honestly.
One guy breaks into a Target and steals a TV. Yeah, that's pretty bad and he shouldn't have done that (very few to none think this is okay; certainly none of posters here)
One guy steals the speaker's podium from the Capitol. Well it's basically the same.

One group is trying to make it clear that they feel they are being mistreated by the police.
One group is ACTIVELY trying to overthrow the government and participate in a coup.
Well it's basically the same and the left are being hypocrits for wanting to prosecute.

Save the drama for the mama llama. These situations are not comparable.

It was pretty clear that Trump supporters were terrible counters on the day of his inaugeration.
It is difficult, if not impossible, to estimate the size of the crowd that stormed Capitol Hill

- cops killed the others who died (but of course that was justified because they were white people, right?)

Oh please. It was JUSTIFIED because they were GOING IN TO HUNT SENATORS. Stop it. Stop downplaying the violence that they ADMITTED THEY WERE THERE TO PERPETRATE. They said they were going to take over.

 

[rambot]

Look. When all the left is doing is gaslighting the right, we can't have an adult conversation based on facts.

I jumped in late but I would LOVE to hear how the left is gaslighting the right.
You mean like how you're screaming about the election being stolen but provide no evidence?
You mean like how we are trying to hold people accountable for INSURRECTION and that offends your sensibilities?
You mean like how we've pointed out how Trump is a serial liar (10,000+)? And then show supporters with clear evidence that he lied and you wallow with Trump in his victimhood?


I TRULY am curious how I am gaslighting anything.
Oh. Is it the "BLM Protests were violent" thing that I don't disagree with? That's what the claims of gaslighting is about?

 

[mmksparbud]

Well, the mantra of the left seems to be "The rules are for thee and not for me" and the media let's then get away with it.......

Does anyopne remember Trump going on and on about how, come the election---all signs of this corona virus woulod totally and completely disappear----just like majic??? I sure do, maybe some missed that lie also.

RESIST THE LIES!!!!

 

[Sparagmos]

Did the 'protesters' illegally enter the Wisconsin Capital building? Then they are no longer protesters but criminals. I rest my case......

No, they didn’t! They didn’t break in, they just walked in. Some of us were watching that closely and remember.

 

[Sparagmos]

So a handful of agitators at both protest were seen to be the cause. Recent info if reliable seems to be showing that agitators at both incidents were not partisan but an outside group against both parties. Who knows what benefit this is to either party but they seem to be using the agitators' actions to suit their own political purposes rather than seeing them as any threat to all. There seems to be something deeper going on here that rises above the usual political bantering. Of course the media so wrapped up in it's political affiliations aren't bothering to look at this angle of subversion against both parties ( if that is what it is and not just a ruse to cast off suspicion against the left)

ProPublica has collected all of the video from the capitol that day. You can watch it all. This was not a handful of agitators. Hundreds of people participated in violence against cops and breaking through barriers and into the building. The audio on the videos also shows that people outside the capital were supportive of the people breaking in, they were thrilled and excited! We also know who many of them are, and many Proud Boys, three preventers and militia members were involved. You can watch it all and see for yourself:

What Parler Saw During the Attack on the Capitol

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I would say your earlier post was really rewriting what happened. Only 20 people broke in? right.
Many criminals were allowed to walk away and the FBI has had to hunt them down and is still hunting. It doesn't matter that it was in ONE afternoon - there were people hunting for Pense with "Hang Mike Pense" chants, and there were threats stated toward other legislators and they were looking for electoral votes.

And yeah, there was a lot of problems in regards to the National Guard, not just "some confusion". Talk about spin.

Maryland Governor Says Pentagon ‘Repeatedly Denied’ Approval To Send National Guard To Capitol

Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan said Thursday that the Department of Defense “repeatedly denied” requests to authorize deployment of Maryland’s National Guard troops to help quell violence at the Capitol on Wednesday.......

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer called Hogan from an “undisclosed bunker” and were “pleading” with him for assistance from his state and national forces, the governor said.......
​

snip


But whatever happened, it was no excuse for trying to throw out the votes of millions of Americans over a big lie that was never prove.

Yes, indeed. Only 20+ people actually violently broke in windows and doors. The others just went through the already broken windows. Most took video and left, exactly as I said. Some - a relative handful - wandered into the building and a few offices and even the floor. They prayed on the House floor, I believe it was (if you want to call it that). One guy put his feet up on Pelosi's desk. Some guy took a podium.

Arrests were made of the appropriate people and a bunch of others just for entering where they were not authorized.

All you did was reiterate previous, unconvincing points. Yes, confusion happened. So and so said such and such to so and so (you repeated). Blah blah.

The point is it wrapped up quickly, and all went home except those arrested. It all happened in ONE AFTERNOON.

No one threw out anyone's votes; that is simply a false assertion.

Nothing actually happened regarding votes at all. All continued with stating that Biden got 81 million votes and all has continued since, with nonstop Executive Orders and the typical wasteful garbage going in the House and Senate.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

ProPublica has collected all of the video from the capitol that day. You can watch it all. This was not a handful of agitators. Hundreds of people participated in violence against cops and breaking through barriers and into the building. The audio on the videos also shows that people outside the capital were supportive of the people breaking in, they were thrilled and excited! We also know who many of them are, and many Proud Boys, three preventers and militia members were involved. You can watch it all and see for yourself:

What Parler Saw During the Attack on the Capitol

And Antifa were there, stirring it up. Don't forget that. They bragged on video too.

 

[rambot]

Yes, indeed. Only 20+ people actually violently broke in windows and doors. The others just went through the already broken windows. Most took video and left, exactly as I said. Some - a relative handful - wandered into the building and a few offices and even the floor. They prayed on the House floor, I believe it was (if you want to call it that). One guy put his feet up on Pelosi's desk. Some guy took a podium.

Do you TRULY believe that logic?

When 3 man break into a house to commit an assault it's only the one guy who picked the lock of who ACTUALLY broke the window is the one who REALLY were the problem. The other two? Meh..

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Do you TRULY believe that logic?

When 3 man break into a house to commit an assault it's only the one guy who picked the lock of who ACTUALLY broke the window is the one who REALLY were the problem. The other two? Meh..

But I didn't say that others who followed would NOT be charged for entering or assault/battery or whatever the individuals involved did do. Those who went in and took video were charged with the misdemeanor of breaking and entering as well - they entered.

I merely described what actually happened to someone who pretends this was planned like Operation Overlord. It just isn't true.

 

[rambot]

Theatrics. So called insurrectionists who realistically never had a chance of overthrowing anything, but giving the appearance of doing so, has as a result allowed the people to agree to fence off of the Capitol and a military presence on the streets of DC for who knows how long. A coup may have been made but not by those being accused, if you look at the only people to have befitted from all this. And no one pays attention to the anarchists who are attacking both right and left, because those partisan fools are too busy blaming each other. Destabilization 101.

I remember all your complaints of Trump doing that too..

Ahh the Salad Days of the Trump presidency....COVID pillaging thousands of Americans a day....BLM being ignored and labelled as hate filled.....unresolved.....conspiratorial nonsense....undermining of the UPSP.

Back in the good old days of "the best leadership", we had walls too. And chicken presidents hiding in a basement.....but strangely, not during hte insurrection.

WEEEEIRD!

 

[rambot]

But I didn't say that others who followed would NOT be charged for entering or assault/battery or whatever the individuals involved did do. Those who went in and took video were charged with the misdemeanor of breaking and entering as well - they entered.

I merely described what actually happened to someone who pretends this was planned like Operation Overlord. It just isn't true.

I don't think that the entire crowd had a plan. But you are ignoring THEIR OWN WORDS if you tihnk that NOBODY had a plan; that nobody had desired outcomes.
Whether certain individuals then chose to join them in their plan? Well, that would be up to the FBI to figure out.
I think they're at about 180 charges at this point though.

Again, just because they did a terrible job doesn't mean they didn't have a plan. These guys LARP this stuff all hte time in the forests of boogaloo America. They're just not good at it.

 

[timothyu]

You

ProPublica has collected all of the video from the capitol that day. You can watch it all. This was not a handful of agitators.

You missed the whole point..

 

[rambot]

Isn't this interesting:
Why Charges Against Protesters Are Being Dismissed by the Thousands

It's almost like news media exaggerated; and the cops were (SHOCKED) heavy handed in their dealing with protesters. And why wouldn't they be! There's a Jimmy John's that's under threat! It's not like it's a symbol of democracy or anything.

It's almost like BLM protesters were right all along! Crazy.