Futurist Only my latest chart

Douggg said:

Thanks for contemplating my chart.

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Well I think ultimately all end time views should agree on where the seals, bowls, trumpets, ect aline with each other even though we may not agree on when they take place.

Douggg said:

What we don't know from the text of Revelation 6 is on what day the martyred great tribulation saints in the 5th seal - make their appeal to Jesus. It will be somewhere near the end of the 7 years, but an exact day cannot be determined.

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But the martyred should know what day it is when they ask, which makes it strange that they would ask the question at all.

Douggg said:

They are in heaven. I don't know that they will have a calendar to track the days.
Nor a way to track the earth days passing. Maybe they will, I don't know.

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I thought about that but if they can’t keep track of earth days it wouldn’t make sense for them to ask how long either.

Douggg said:

No, for the sixth seal was opened - yet you think that event is not yet fulfilled.

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It is plain that the Sixth seal is not yet open. We have never yet experienced the cosmic effects described, or any of the many Prophesies about the Day the Lord will send fire to destroy His enemies. Amos 1, Psalms 11:4-6

Douggg said:

They are in heaven. I don't know that they will have a calendar to track the days.
Nor a way to track the earth days passing. Maybe they will, I don't know.

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Wouldn’t they just use always the reliable and precisely accurate “a day is 1000 years” calculation?

“Well, it’s 12:30 in the morning here in heaven, so that means 20.83 years have passed on earth”

I mean who in heaven wouldn’t know to use this simple, precise, 100% accurate, to down to the millisecond math to track the passing of time on earth?

Original Happy Camper said:

The Reformers, one and all, applied the prophecies of the “Man of sin” and the “Antichrist” to the Papacy.

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And, again I ask, how’d that work out for them?

Luther believed the pope of his day was the Antichrist and that the end would come before he finished translating the OT.

And you claim those predictions and assertions of his were ”inspired by the Holy Spirit”

Would you Care to demonstrate how Luther (and therefore the Holy Spirit as you claim) were correct in claiming THE Pope of his day was THE antichrist and the end would come before he finished translating the old testament?

Douggg said:

p70, if you adjusted your world view from Catholic and Protestants to....
Catholics
Protestants
Other - such as messianic's, non-denominational (like me), etc.

....you would have a more accurate view of the makeup of Christianity. I too, believe that the pope is not the Antichrist - but I am not a protestant, nor a Catholic.

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Of course the Pope is the Antichrist and it is he who will rule the FIRST HALF of the last week that will be given unto the Gentiles, and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months, and there will be given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power will be given unto him to continue forty and two months, even him the Beast of sea and his Church-the Woman-the great harlot, a religious and satanic MONSTER having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

No one will enter the kingdom of God with figures of the idolatry, idols or cross, that is, with all kinds of idolatry widespread universally by the Beast of the sea, THE POPE- through the Great harlot - the idolatrous Roman Catholic Church, which rides upon the Beast of sea -the Pope, and whose religious and satanic roots fixed and grew up within the satanic and MURDEROUS Roman empire, and remains until the current time.

Revelation 6:v.9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not Judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

John the Apostle saw that in the current time of Apocalypse the Beast of sea-THE POPE and his religious and idolater and satanic church-the Great harlot, the Roman Catholic Church-, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. But the Beast will be taken...and them that worshipped his image. These will be cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone, and the remnant will be slain with the Sword of him that sits upon the horse, the Sword which proceeds out of his mouth.

JESUS said: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the FIRE. A corrupt tree (for example, the Pope and the Great harlot, and their followers) cannot bring forth good fruit, Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven - Matthew chapter 7.

JESUS said: Revelation 21:v.8 - The fearful(cowards), and idolaters, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

It's that.

Revelation 11:v. 15-18

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were(will be) angry, and thy wrath is come (GOD's wrath,this is already running), and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that GOD should give reward unto His servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear HIS name -JESUS-, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

parousia70 said:

And, again I ask, how’d that work out for them?

Luther believed the pope of his day was the Antichrist and that the end would come before he finished translating the OT.

And you claim those predictions and assertions of his were ”inspired by the Holy Spirit”

Would you Care to demonstrate how Luther (and therefore the Holy Spirit as you claim) were correct in claiming THE Pope of his day was THE antichrist and the end would come before he finished translating the old testament?

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Seeing as how DOUGG started this thread and brought up the antchrist I do not believe that if we continue this conversation about the antchrist we will not be derailing his thread.

I am going to respond to this issue "Would you Care to demonstrate how Luther (and therefore the Holy Spirit as you claim) were correct in claiming THE Pope of his day was THE antichrist"

Def antichrist
One who opposes Christ and even declare himself as God.

The 10 horns represent the 10 kings or kingdoms into which pagan Rome (the fourth kingdom) was eventually split (Daniel 7:24). (These 10 kingdoms are the same as the 10 toes of the image described in Daniel 2:41-44.) Roving barbarian tribes swept in upon the Roman empire and carved out land niches for their people.

• "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things" (Daniel 7:8).

Seven of the 10 tribes developed into the countries of modern Western Europe, while three were uprooted and destroyed (“plucked up”) by a “little horn” that had “eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.”

We must identify this "little horn" power carefully, because God takes more space describing it than the other four kingdoms combined. Why? Because the biblical characteristics identify it as the Antichrist of prophecy and history. There must be no mistake in making this identification.


7. Does the Bible give clear points identifying antichrist?
Yes. God’s Word gives us nine characteristics of the antichrist in Daniel 7 so we can be certain of his identity. And even though some might find these truths painful, we must be honest enough to accept them as His revealed will. Now let’s discover these nine points.

A. The little horn would come “up among them”—that is, from among the 10 horns that were the kingdoms of Western Europe (Daniel 7:8). So it would be a little kingdom somewhere in Western Europe.
B. It would have a man at its head who could speak for it (Daniel 7:8).
C. It would pluck out or uproot three kingdoms (Daniel 7:8).
D. It would be different from the other 10 kingdoms (Daniel 7:24).
E. It would make war with and persecute the saints (Daniel 7:21, 25).
F. It would emerge from the pagan Roman Empire—the fourth kingdom (Daniel 7:7, 8).
G. God’s people (the saints) would “be given into his hand” for “a time and times and half a time” (Daniel 7:25).
H. It would “speak great words against” or blaspheme God (Daniel 7:25 KJV). In Revelation 13:5, the Bible says the same power speaks “great things and blasphemies.”
I. It would “intend to change times and law” (Daniel 7:25).

Don’t forget—all these identification points come directly from the Bible. They are not some human opinion or speculation. Historians could tell you quickly what power is being described, because these points fit only one power—the papacy. But in order to be certain, let us carefully examine all nine points one by one. There must be no room left for doubt.
Does the papacy fit these points
Who Is the Antichrist? | Bible Study Guides | Amazing Facts

Original Happy Camper said:

Def antichrist
One who opposes Christ and even declare himself as God.

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Not sure wherre you are getting that definition from, but it's not from the Bible.
Here's the BIBLICAL definition of antichrist:

Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. (1 John 2:22)

and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. (1 John 4:3)

For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. (2 John 1:7)

That's it. That is the ENTIRE BIBLICAL DEFINITION of Antichrist, centered around denying the Father and denying Jesus came in the flesh. That's all it takes to be defined as antichrist, biblically speaking.

Nothing in those scriptures support your inclusion of "even delcare himself as God" in the definition.

You are applying later added, man made tradition to arrive at your definition, a definition of antichrist that demonstrably does not exist in scripture.

Don’t forget—all these identification points come directly from the Bible. They are not some human opinion or speculation.

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But NONE of them identify antichrist, as proven above. Only Human opinion and speculation attach these identifiers to the biblical antichrist. Scripture does not.

Now, as to Luther's claim that the end would come before he finished translating the OT...?

Are you in agreement with him on that? do you likewise claim that statement was inspired by the Holy Spirit?

Douggg said:

The foundation at the base of the chart for the 7 year 70th week is found in the 6 seals in chapter 6,

then the great multitude coming out of the Great Tribulation in chapter 7,

then the seventh seal in chapters 8-9,

then the seventh trumpet in chapters 10-11.

right click on the chart, then choose "open in new tab", then click on the new tab to view the chart full screen.



View attachment 321024

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You have the seventh seal beginning and ending before the sixth seal even begins. While I don't believe everything in Revelation is in chronological order by any means, I certainly believe that the seven seals are in chronological order as well as the seven trumpets and seven vials/bowls. I see no reason to think that seals 1-6 are in chronological order, but somehow seal 7 starts at the same time as seal 3 and ends at the same time as seal 5. That just doesn't make any sense.

Original Happy Camper said:

Seeing as how DOUGG started this thread and brought up the antchrist I do not believe that if we continue this conversation about the antchrist we will not be derailing his thread.

I am going to respond to this issue "Would you Care to demonstrate how Luther (and therefore the Holy Spirit as you claim) were correct in claiming THE Pope of his day was THE antichrist"

Def antichrist
One who opposes Christ and even declare himself as God.

The 10 horns represent the 10 kings or kingdoms into which pagan Rome (the fourth kingdom) was eventually split (Daniel 7:24). (These 10 kingdoms are the same as the 10 toes of the image described in Daniel 2:41-44.) Roving barbarian tribes swept in upon the Roman empire and carved out land niches for their people.

• "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things" (Daniel 7:8).

Seven of the 10 tribes developed into the countries of modern Western Europe, while three were uprooted and destroyed (“plucked up”) by a “little horn” that had “eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.”

We must identify this "little horn" power carefully, because God takes more space describing it than the other four kingdoms combined. Why? Because the biblical characteristics identify it as the Antichrist of prophecy and history. There must be no mistake in making this identification.

7. Does the Bible give clear points identifying antichrist?
Yes. God’s Word gives us nine characteristics of the antichrist in Daniel 7 so we can be certain of his identity. And even though some might find these truths painful, we must be honest enough to accept them as His revealed will. Now let’s discover these nine points.

A. The little horn would come “up among them”—that is, from among the 10 horns that were the kingdoms of Western Europe (Daniel 7:8). So it would be a little kingdom somewhere in Western Europe.
B. It would have a man at its head who could speak for it (Daniel 7:8).
C. It would pluck out or uproot three kingdoms (Daniel 7:8).
D. It would be different from the other 10 kingdoms (Daniel 7:24).
E. It would make war with and persecute the saints (Daniel 7:21, 25).
F. It would emerge from the pagan Roman Empire—the fourth kingdom (Daniel 7:7, 8).
G. God’s people (the saints) would “be given into his hand” for “a time and times and half a time” (Daniel 7:25).
H. It would “speak great words against” or blaspheme God (Daniel 7:25 KJV). In Revelation 13:5, the Bible says the same power speaks “great things and blasphemies.”
I. It would “intend to change times and law” (Daniel 7:25).

Don’t forget—all these identification points come directly from the Bible. They are not some human opinion or speculation. Historians could tell you quickly what power is being described, because these points fit only one power—the papacy. But in order to be certain, let us carefully examine all nine points one by one. There must be no room left for doubt.
Does the papacy fit these points
Who Is the Antichrist? | Bible Study Guides | Amazing Facts

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Yes, as you above said, "the points fit only one power—the papacy." John the Apostle said:
1John 2:v.18-20:
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there MANY antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

The birthplace /cradle of Antichrist

1 John 2:v.19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Very interesting this revelation of the Apostle John of the primitive Church. Who is the Apostle John talking about or to whom is he referring in the verse above?

We know that the book of Revelation was showed to John around year 95 AD, i.e. 65 years after the ascension of JESUS to the third heaven. And we know also that there are two distinct Beasts described in Revelation 13:v. 1 to 18. Today, after about 2,000 years, we can and should discern both Beasts will lead two distinct satanic religious systems in near future, but one, the FIRST Man Beast, he already exists, the another has not yet, but he will manifest in near future.

In fact one already exists since ancient time, it has existed for about two thousand years, that is, the Beast of sea, a satanic religious system developed by Satan within the Roman Empire, after he had corrupted the church of Rome that was established by the Apostles Peter and Paul, both were killed by persecution, and thus was developed satanic Antichrist's movements through the corrupt church of Rome, the Catholic Church. Notice that Revelation describes 7 churches, and the church of Rome would be the eighth, but it was left out because the church of Rome was already completely disapproved by JESUS.

In fact, the church of Rome developed a systematic opposition against to the Churches of the Lord that preached the Gospel of God's Kingdom, preached firstly by the Lord JESUS Christ, and continued by the Apostles and disciples of the Lord, by the way, it is preached yet until today.

The satanic religious structures and organizations of the Roman Catholic Church within the Roman Empire, which rides upon the Beast of sea, the Pope, since the confuse election of the first Pope in the first century after Christ, who can be Linus or Clement, and for to increase the confuse election of whom really is the first Pope, the own Satan, the main leader of the blasphemer movement of Antichrist of the Roman Catholic Church, he himself, time after, from the late 2nd or early 3rd century the convention began of regarding Peter as the first pope. Its more a satanic blasphemy.

About the events above described, and the corruption of the Church of Rome, see what the Word of GOD reveals by the VISUAL testimony of Apostle John: 1 John 2:v.18-21

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that Antichrist shall come, even now are there many Antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They (the Church of Rome) went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

What we can say is that the woman, that is the Babylonian Roman Catholic Church, married to 266 Popes, currently Francis I is the Pope, she sits upon the scarlet colored Man Beast of sea, the Pope, the Papacy - from the Latin expression Pater Patrum - , full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns, reason by which the RCC is called Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth, which is drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.

THE PUNISHMENT OF THE ANCIENT AND CORRUPT CHURCH OF ROME FROM NOW ON - THE WORD IS GOD

Revelation 18:v. 1 to 5

1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
(The Word is God)

In Christ JESUS, King of kings (kings made by Him - Revelation 5:v.10), and LORD of lords
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