My Kidney Challenge

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

Anecdotal evidence.

And I could actually put your $1 million thing to the test. As in an actual test. The money in the account is a testable with with a clear and unambiguous answer.

Can't do that with God.

LOL - i see you understood my post; very good!

the reason that you can't test God about the $1million or healing is because you don't believe that there is a God - so for you, your own earning potential and the medical industry is as good as it gets. you probably don't believe in the devil either; but he is not deceived about your existence - he's already getting you to use your God-given authority in the earth against yourself through your own words; he doesn't have any power or authority himself, he just gets the proud to curse themselves. after all, you have faith that God WON'T heal you - and faith works just as well for evil as for good - you believe in your heart that God won't heal you; you've spoken it out of your mouth, and that's the way it is for you - no miracles, no blessing, no divine favor - just you against the world - good luck; you need it! just keep the time-proven statement in mind that 'there are no atheists in foxholes when the bullets start flying'

but don't forget that He's merciful; when your curse comes upon you, humble yourself and call on Him, and He will show you His salvation; He is ever merciful, and l o n g-suffering - and has no pleasure in the death of those who reject Him.

 

[Kylie]

the reason that you can't test God about the $1million or healing is because you don't believe that there is a God - so for you, your own earning potential and the medical industry is as good as it gets.

How does that work? I need to believe in something before I can test for it? If I don't believe in gravity, will my tests for it show that gravity does not exist?

you

probably don't believe in the devil either; but he is not deceived about your existence - he's already getting you to use your God-given authority in the earth against yourself through your own words; he doesn't have any power or authority himself, he just gets the proud to curse themselves.

Yeah, you're going to need to support your claim that the devil exists with actual evidence.

after all, you have faith that God WON'T heal you - and faith works just as well for evil as for good - you believe in your heart that God won't heal you; you've spoken it out of your mouth, and that's the way it is for you - no miracles, no blessing, no divine favor - just you against the world - good luck; you need it!

I seem to be doing just fine.

But tell me, if believers have God on their side, why is it that studies have shown that average intelligence tends to rise as average religiosity diminishes?
http://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~ara/Manuscripts/Science-2012-Gervais-493-6.pdf
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120426143856.htm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2111174/Intelligent-people-less-likely-to-believe-in-God.html

Also, in the USA, the states that have a higher average religiosity are also the ones with higher rates of teen pregnancy.
http://www.siecus.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Feature.showFeature&featureID=1831
http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/religions-link-to-teen-pregnancy/
http://www.livescience.com/5728-teen-birth-rates-higher-highly-religious-states.html

just keep the time-proven statement in mind that 'there are no atheists in foxholes when the bullets start flying'

You don't actually believe that, do you? Very well, here's proof that this claim is wrong.

http://militaryatheists.org/atheists-in-foxholes/
http://americanhumanist.org/humanism/I_Was_an_Atheist_in_a_Foxhole
https://ffrf.org/outreach/atheists-in-foxholes

but don't forget that He's merciful; when your curse comes upon you, humble yourself and call on Him, and He will show you His salvation; He is ever merciful, and l o n g-suffering - and has no pleasure in the death of those who reject Him.

Yeah, tell that to all those starving Christian kids in Africa. Tell that to the little kids who are molested in churches. Explain to me how a merciful God lets those things happen.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yeah, tell that to all those starving Christian kids in Africa. Tell that to the little kids who are molested in churches. Explain to me how a merciful God lets those things happen.

Unlike evolution, which says populations evolve, not individuals; salvation is the opposite.

Individuals are born again, not populations.

So I ask:

ASSUMING you aren't a starving kid in Africa,

ASSUMING you weren't molested in a church as a little kid,

What's you're excuse for not accepting Christ as your Saviour?

Or are you just hiding behind starving and molested children and hoping they'll make excuses for you?

 

[katerinah1947]

How does that work? I need to believe in something before I can test for it? If I don't believe in gravity, will my tests for it show that gravity does not exist?

you

Yeah, you're going to need to support your claim that the devil exists with actual evidence.



I seem to be doing just fine.

But tell me, if believers have God on their side, why is it that studies have shown that average intelligence tends to rise as average religiosity diminishes?
http://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~ara/Manuscripts/Science-2012-Gervais-493-6.pdf
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120426143856.htm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2111174/Intelligent-people-less-likely-to-believe-in-God.html

Also, in the USA, the states that have a higher average religiosity are also the ones with higher rates of teen pregnancy.
http://www.siecus.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Feature.showFeature&featureID=1831
http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/religions-link-to-teen-pregnancy/
http://www.livescience.com/5728-teen-birth-rates-higher-highly-religious-states.html



You don't actually believe that, do you? Very well, here's proof that this claim is wrong.

http://militaryatheists.org/atheists-in-foxholes/
http://americanhumanist.org/humanism/I_Was_an_Atheist_in_a_Foxhole
https://ffrf.org/outreach/atheists-in-foxholes

Yeah, tell that to all those starving Christian kids in Africa. Tell that to the little kids who are molested in churches. Explain to me how a merciful God lets those things happen.

Hi,

Hi KTS. On this only, two reference points are being used.

How does that work? I need to believe in something before I can test for it? If I don't believe in gravity, will my tests for it show that gravity does not exist?

I did not believe in God, when I tested the Bible to see if it was real. I did not.

Objectively, I held that as a possibility, because of no proof by anyone yet, that He is not Real, had been performed.

Your statements above are highly correct, by the work I have done in this field.

However, many here are talking from their reference point of having the proof that God exists, but forget that is their reference point.

People who already know that God exists, have a different set of restrictions on them for testing God, and they are telling you those, it seems.

Being musical, at your level, you are also Mathematical. So, it would be like me telling them to look at something in partials or integrate, meaning Partial Differential Equations, or an Integral Equation, to get a particular answer for themselves, when they are not Mathematicians yet.

Mathematically and using human terms, God is a theory, until proven one way or another, but to and by the individual.

Math and Music are not either of them bystander learned, they are learned by doing.

The ones who do and have done and have learned, are talking about testing God, from that view point, not from yours.

LOVE,

 

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

How does that work? I need to believe in something before I can test for it? If I don't believe in gravity, will my tests for it show that gravity does not exist?

you

Yeah, you're going to need to support your claim that the devil exists with actual evidence.



I seem to be doing just fine.

But tell me, if believers have God on their side, why is it that studies have shown that average intelligence tends to rise as average religiosity diminishes?
http://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~ara/Manuscripts/Science-2012-Gervais-493-6.pdf
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120426143856.htm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2111174/Intelligent-people-less-likely-to-believe-in-God.html

Also, in the USA, the states that have a higher average religiosity are also the ones with higher rates of teen pregnancy.
http://www.siecus.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Feature.showFeature&featureID=1831
http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/religions-link-to-teen-pregnancy/
http://www.livescience.com/5728-teen-birth-rates-higher-highly-religious-states.html



You don't actually believe that, do you? Very well, here's proof that this claim is wrong.

http://militaryatheists.org/atheists-in-foxholes/
http://americanhumanist.org/humanism/I_Was_an_Atheist_in_a_Foxhole
https://ffrf.org/outreach/atheists-in-foxholes

Yeah, tell that to all those starving Christian kids in Africa. Tell that to the little kids who are molested in churches. Explain to me how a merciful God lets those things happen.

now we're getting somewhere!

think about the scientific process; it begins with a theory - a scientifically unproven concept. scientists don't test theories they don't believe in - they meditate on a theory, decide to believe it's likely true (put faith in it), and then test to prove it's right - not to prove it's wrong. where would science be if no theory was ever considered for which there wasn't clear evidence to support it? we'd still think the earth is the center of the universe, wouldn't we? the hubbel telescope was launched to prove theories about the universe - not to disprove them - so yes - like the scientist, you have to believe in something before you can effectively test for it.

that's what faith in God is - it is a test of His faithfulness to fulfill His promises - but if you won't even consider that there is a God - why would you bother testing Him to prove for yourself that He will make good on His word? like the many scientists that spent much of their lives trying to prove a theory that they believed was true before they had evidence to support that faith, you will have to dare to believe there is a God or you will certainly not look for Him with all your heart no matter how long it takes to find Him...

actually, i don't need to prove anything to you; your lack of faith has nothing to do with me receiving what God has already given to me before i was born - you must be looking for something or you wouldn't have been here so long - i'm trying to help you find Him.

as for Christians who don't walk in faith perfectly, there are no atheists who walk in faith that there is no God perfectly either - else none would have become Christians. we can trade studies and testimonies until hell freezes over (or forever for you since you don't believe there is a hell), but your unbelief doesn't change the miracles i've seen in my life and the lives of others; trying to convince me that there is no God is like trying to tell a man who's doing a backstroke in a pool that there's no water in it - i believed, then tested God through faith, and i've seen - so now i know there is a Good God who loves everyone selflessly; and i understand why bad things happen in the earth - you can too if you'll test the theory to prove it rather than disprove it.

back to God's system of delegated authority, when Adam and Eve yielded their authority in the earth to the devil that you don't believe in, that same devil gained access to their unrestricted authority in the earth. at this point, God had to do something to keep His creation from falling into the hands of the devil, since the devil was effectively holding man hostage, He could destroy man to get to the devil, or He could break His word - and that's something God can not do (yes - there is really something God can't do - He can not break His word). but He loved man so much that He did the only other thing He could do - He became a man named Jesus, lived His mortal life without yielding His unrestricted authority in the earth to the devil, and then gave that authority back to people in flesh bodies - but like the scientist and their theories, you have to believe Him in order to test this and receive it. and like the scientist, the Christian doesn't either completely believe without doubt, or simply disbelieve; there is a fight to believe and not doubt in every area of life - prosperity, healing, deliverance, etc. the unbelief i've soaked up from the world of doubters is enough to bind my faith in the area of flying bullets, so until i'm confident that i can stop bullets with my faith, i'm gonna be smart and dive in a foxhole for the time being. but there is a powerful testimony of a man who did overcome his doubt in this way - http://kasontan.livejournal.com/972.html - but if you won't consider that this is possible (theory), you won't consider the evidence of others either...

as for how you're doing, you can make bold statements here, but you aren't fooling me - when it's late at night and you can't sleep, and your mind drifts to the pointlessness of this fleeting life on this earth - you face the emptiness that only God can fill just like everyone else

 

[katerinah1947]

now we're getting somewhere!

think about the scientific process; it begins with a theory - a scientifically unproven concept. scientists don't test theories they don't believe in - they meditate on a theory, decide to believe it's likely true (put faith in it), and then test to prove it's right - not to prove it's wrong. where would science be if no theory was ever considered for which there wasn't clear evidence to support it? we'd still think the earth is the center of the universe, wouldn't we? the hubbel telescope was launched to prove theories about the universe - not to disprove them - so yes - like the scientist, you have to believe in something before you can effectively test for it.

that's what faith in God is - it is a test of His faithfulness to fulfill His promises - but if you won't even consider that there is a God - why would you bother testing Him to prove for yourself that He will make good on His word? like the many scientists that spent much of their lives trying to prove a theory that they believed was true before they had evidence to support that faith, you will have to dare to believe there is a God or you will certainly not look for Him with all your heart no matter how long it takes to find Him...

actually, i don't need to prove anything to you; your lack of faith has nothing to do with me receiving what God has already given to me before i was born - you must be looking for something or you wouldn't have been here so long - i'm trying to help you find Him.

as for Christians who don't walk in faith perfectly, there are no atheists who walk in faith that there is no God perfectly either - else none would have become Christians. we can trade studies and testimonies until hell freezes over (or forever for you since you don't believe there is a hell), but your unbelief doesn't change the miracles i've seen in my life and the lives of others; trying to convince me that there is no God is like trying to tell a man who's doing a backstroke in a pool that there's no water in it - i believed, then tested God through faith, and i've seen - so now i know there is a Good God who loves everyone selflessly; and i understand why bad things happen in the earth - you can too if you'll test the theory to prove it rather than disprove it.

back to God's system of delegated authority, when Adam and Eve yielded their authority in the earth to the devil that you don't believe in, that same devil gained access to their unrestricted authority in the earth. at this point, God had to do something to keep His creation from falling into the hands of the devil, since the devil was effectively holding man hostage, He could destroy man to get to the devil, or He could break His word - and that's something God can not do (yes - there is really something God can't do - He can not break His word). but He loved man so much that He did the only other thing He could do - He became a man named Jesus, lived His mortal life without yielding His unrestricted authority in the earth to the devil, and then gave that authority back to people in flesh bodies - but like the scientist and their theories, you have to believe Him in order to test this and receive it. and like the scientist, the Christian doesn't either completely believe without doubt, or simply disbelieve; there is a fight to believe and not doubt in every area of life - prosperity, healing, deliverance, etc. the unbelief i've soaked up from the world of doubters is enough to bind my faith in the area of flying bullets, so until i'm confident that i can stop bullets with my faith, i'm gonna be smart and dive in a foxhole for the time being. but there is a powerful testimony of a man who did overcome his doubt in this way - http://kasontan.livejournal.com/972.html - but if you won't consider that this is possible (theory), you won't consider the evidence of others either...

as for how you're doing, you can make bold statements here, but you aren't fooling me - when it's late at night and you can't sleep, and your mind drifts to the pointlessness of this fleeting life on this earth - you face the emptiness that only God can fill just like everyone else

Hi,

This scientist does try and prove herself wrong.

This scientist knows of others who do that also.

When we can't prove ourselves wrong, and no one else can, it is then possible, that the work is correct.

Your statement on that is very very very wrong, as the best work comes out of trying to prove ourselves wrong, and failing at times to be able to do that.

It is standard practice in science.

LOVE,

 

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

i don't recognize you as authoritative in this area of the successful scientific approach to theories, so you're judgment has no more weight with me than mine has with you.

but by your own statement, you reveal that you see the potential for truth in a theory before you test it, else why would you try to prove it wrong?

 

[katerinah1947]

i don't recognize you as authoritative in this area of the successful scientific approach to theories, so you're judgment has no more weight with me than mine has with you.

but by your own statement, you reveal that you see the potential for truth in a theory before you test it, else why would you try to prove it wrong?

Hi,

When any problem arises, from gravity, to combustion, (what fire is), observations are made.

If I think I am right. I test what I think is right, by trying to prove it wrong.

The test can be predictive, and for me with one to one proofs, called correlations in trade talk, those are my favorites to use.

As an example, when I was sure of any effect, I would run a test to see if what is predicted, by my understandings, is actually found or not.

On one project, my first guesses were all incorrect. My last one was correct, and I and no one on the planet was and is able to prove that wrong, So, it was and is accepted by the scientific community, and who they work for, on the basis of that.

What cannot be proved wrong, yet.

LOVE,

 

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

Hi,

...If I think I am right. I test what I think is right, by trying to prove it wrong...

LOVE,

you test to see if what you think is right is actually found - not test to see if the opposite of what you think is right is actually found - your expectation (faith) is that you will prove your theory right, not prove it wrong. if you believe (have faith) in gravity, you wouldn't walk off a cliff thinking that you wouldn't fall - you'd look to see if the evidence for gravity is universal instead. while you would be looking for an exception, your expectation (faith) would be that you wouldn't find one...

 

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

gravity is an interesting example. the recent science of the day believed that gravity was causing the universe to collapse on itself, but they doubted that enough to spend billions on ground equipment and satellite equipment to observe whether this was true, and found that the opposite is true - that in spite of gravity, the universe is not only expanding, it's picking up speed as it does. so science had to admit that there was something more powerful than gravity at work in the universe; and that it was everywhere, that nothing is truly 'empty' (gee, this sounds familiar) - dark matter and dark energy are dark only to man because of the unending fallacy of his always-limited knowledge of science; science 'believes' in dark matter and dark energy even though there is zero evidence to prove this theory - that's faith; it's part of the religion of science. or consider the electron; no one has ever seen one, or heard one, or touched one, or tasted one, or smelled one, or created one in a laboratory environment out of whatever electrons are actually made of - yet through observation that has thus far not yielded an exception, science recognizes the unproven theory of the electron as fact.

you can't universally test gravity as fact when you can see that gravity is not consistent in the universe, yet you still believe in gravity - until you can test gravity everywhere in the universe and prove whether it's actually consistent, your belief in gravity is not certain truth; it's theory that has yet to be disproven - faith

what difference is there in believing in dark matter and dark energy, and believing in God? intellectually speaking, i suppose there is no difference - neither can be proven, both are theories from the standpoint of man's limited science - but which is more important to obtain - knowledge of the dying universe, or Truth of eternal life?

 

[katerinah1947]

you test to see if what you think is right is actually found - not test to see if the opposite of what you think is right is actually found - your expectation (faith) is that you will prove your theory right, not prove it wrong. if you believe (have faith) in gravity, you wouldn't walk off a cliff thinking that you wouldn't fall - you'd look to see if the evidence for gravity is universal instead. while you would be looking for an exception, your expectation (faith) would be that you wouldn't find one...

Hi,

No really. The concept of proof, and going from proof to proof, and away from failed proofs is more correct.

Let us, you and I go to something that we both might know.

I know God is Real because the tests I ran on The Bible, came out, showing God is Real.

While doing that, most all of my emotions and feelings are turned off.

I did not really try to prove that God is Real, nor that The Bible is Real.

I just ran my tests, to see what the results were.

LOVE,

 

[bhsmte]

Hi,

No really. The concept of proof, and going from proof to proof, and away from failed proofs is more correct.

Let us, you and I go to something that we both might know.

I know God is Real because the tests I ran on The Bible, came out, showing God is Real.

While doing that, most all of my emotions and feelings are turned off.

I did not really try to prove that God is Real, nor that The Bible is Real.

I just ran my tests, to see what the results were.



LOVE,

There is no "proof" in science.

 

[katerinah1947]

gravity is an interesting example. the recent science of the day believed that gravity was causing the universe to collapse on itself, but they doubted that enough to spend billions on ground equipment and satellite equipment to observe whether this was true, and found that the opposite is true - that in spite of gravity, the universe is not only expanding, it's picking up speed as it does. so science had to admit that there was something more powerful than gravity at work in the universe; and that it was everywhere, that nothing is truly 'empty' (gee, this sounds familiar) - dark matter and dark energy are dark only to man because of the unending fallacy of his always-limited knowledge of science; science 'believes' in dark matter and dark energy even though there is zero evidence to prove this theory - that's faith; it's part of the religion of science. or consider the electron; no one has ever seen one, or heard one, or touched one, or tasted one, or smelled one, or created one in a laboratory environment out of whatever electrons are actually made of - yet through observation that has thus far not yielded an exception, science recognizes the unproven theory of the electron as fact.

you can't universally test gravity as fact when you can see that gravity is not consistent in the universe, yet you still believe in gravity - until you can test gravity everywhere in the universe and prove whether it's actually consistent, your belief in gravity is not certain truth; it's theory that has yet to be disproven - faith

what difference is there in believing in dark matter and dark energy, and believing in God? intellectually speaking, i suppose there is no difference - neither can be proven, both are theories from the standpoint of man's limited science - but which is more important to obtain - knowledge of the dying universe, or Truth of eternal life?

Hi,

I think you are merely stating a failed experiment, that caused a change.

I go from proof to proof, and failed proofs move me to other places.

A shrinking universe, is a failed proof.

Once, found and verified, no one goes there anymore, they divert to other areas.

LOVE,

 

[AV1611VET]

There is no "proof" in science.

But there's science in "proof," isn't there?

Are you familiar with the Kennedy curse?

 

[bhsmte]

But there's science in "proof," isn't there?

Are you familiar with the Kennedy curse?

Depends how one uses the term. Science does not deal in "proving" and or "proofs".

Tell us, about the Kennedy curse.

 

[super animator]

There is no "proof" in science.

Only falsification.

 

[bhsmte]

Only falsification.

Yep.

 

[AV1611VET]

There is no "proof" in science.

Only falsification.

Yep.

Has the no-evidence worldwide Flood been falsified by science?

My guess is it has been.

Science doesn't need evidence to falsify something, does it?

Consensus of opinion is good enough, isn't it?

 

[katerinah1947]

Only falsification.

Hi,

I am so happy you guys were not around the places I worked, for the hundreds of thousands and millions of people who allowed us to use proofs.

All of us used, proofs. If I stood up and talked, and I did from time to time, all anyone cared about, was can I prove what I say is true with my own experimental data or not.

Oh yes. They also double check my proofs.

LOVE,

 

[bhsmte]

Has the no-evidence worldwide Flood been falsified by science?

My guess is it has been.

Science doesn't need evidence to falsify something, does it?

Consensus of opinion is good enough, isn't it?

How does one falsify something in science, without objective evidence to do so?