My Kidney Challenge II

[Kylie]

No, I understood what you were trying to infer but your analogy is fatally flawed. No one is dying in an elective abortion.

I'm glad you see my point.

Again, you recognize the preborn child as a person. Consult Sigmund on your repeated slip as it likely discloses your preconscious and/or subconscious true feelings on the matter.

You are reading way to much into it. I'm not being rigorous with the language I use because it doesn't have any affect on the argument of the woman's bodily autonomy.

However, you still will not acknowledge the categorical difference between killing another and letting someone die. Does the doctor who will not perform a heart transplant on a terminally ill senile 90 year old patient with heart disease commit murder? No.

Are you suggesting that the life of a terminally ill senile 90 year old patient with heart disease is less valuable than a 20 old woman in excellent health?

Cry foul? The emotive language does not help your case. Only an irresponsible woman would engage in sex without being willing to accept the possible consequence of pregnancy.

Are you serious? Rather than actually address the point I raise, you quibbling about my phrasing. If that doesn't show that you can't make a point about it, I don't know what does.

We have laws "forcing" women and men to not run around naked in the public square. Do those laws deny them their "bodily autonomy"? No.

Please explain to me how a law that prevents a person from running around naked in public forces that person to use their body in a way they do not wish.

I'm sure you do.

Then let's just get all the women to do that then, shall we?

Are you really comparing a kidney to a preborn child?

How many times is this strawman going to be bought up?

The kidney is NOT analogous to the embryo, it is analogous to the UTERUS.

 

[Hammster]

Yes I have made a distinction.

If I fall pregnant, carry the pregnancy to term, give birth, raise the child and then when they are 10 years old they need a kidney, I have already demonstrated several times over that I want this child in my life. This is not the case if I find that I am pregnant and choose to have an abortion.

Once again, you’ve missed the point. If you decided that you don’t want to give the needed kidney to your child, in your morality it would be just as okay as not giving the child your uterus and killing it before birth.

 

[o_mlly]

The kidney is NOT analogous to the embryo, it is analogous to the UTERUS.

After having their stale old talking points factually and logically defeated, pro abortionists in this country resort to name calling and, lately, even to violence. Seem the same is true down-under.

Get back to me if you have any new argument or fact, you know, like a headline claiming, "Woman gives birth to kidney."

 

[o_mlly]

No one is dying in an elective abortion.

I'm glad you see my point.

OK, so want to change your first post from:

There is a little girl, named Sally. She needs a kidney transplant or she will die. You are the only compatible donor available.
Should you be forced you to give up one of your kidneys to save her life?

To (stripped of unnecessary emotive language):

A person has two good kidneys. She wants a kidney transplant. You are the only compatible donor available.
Should you be forced you to give up one of your kidneys?
​

Makes even less sense than your original.

 

[Kylie]

Once again, you’ve missed the point. If you decided that you don’t want to give the needed kidney to your child, in your morality it would be just as okay as not giving the child your uterus and killing it before birth.

No, I'm sorry, but you have missed the point.

The fact that I carried this child and raised it indicates that this is a child I want. You are being surprised by the fact that I am trying to help a child that I have already demonstrated I want in my life.

Or do you expect me to say, "I did all that stuff for this kid, but meh, whatever, I'll just let them die now."

 

[Kylie]

​

OK, so want to change your first post from:

​

To (stripped of unnecessary emotive language):

A person has two good kidneys. She wants a kidney transplant. You are the only compatible donor available.
Should you be forced you to give up one of your kidneys?
​

Makes even less sense than your original.

You miss my point.

You said NO ONE is dying in an elective abortion. If no one is dying, then the claim "abortion is murder" would seem to be disproved.

 

[Hammster]

No, I'm sorry, but you have missed the point.

The fact that I carried this child and raised it indicates that this is a child I want. You are being surprised by the fact that I am trying to help a child that I have already demonstrated I want in my life.

Or do you expect me to say, "I did all that stuff for this kid, but meh, whatever, I'll just let them die now."

I’m saying that you if you decided to let at child die at ten years old, it’s no different than murdering the child pre birth. You’ve made it clear you are under no moral obligation to keep your child alive.

 

[Kylie]

I’m saying that you if you decided to let at child die at ten years old, it’s no different than murdering the child pre birth. You’ve made it clear you are under no moral obligation to keep your child alive.

And as I've stated several times now, I disagree.

 

[Hammster]

And as I've stated several times now, I disagree.

That’s obvious. However, you have no moral basis to disagree.

 

[Kylie]

That’s obvious. However, you have no moral basis to disagree.

Yes I do. I've explained it several times now.

 

[AV1611VET]

Kylie, where's your other thread? I'd like to take a look at it.

 

[o_mlly]

You miss my point.

You said NO ONE is dying in an elective abortion. If no one is dying, then the claim "abortion is murder" would seem to be disproved.

Oh no, I got your point. But it appears you (willfully?) missed mine. One of the fatal flaws in your analogy is that in the decision to donate a kidney, someone is dying. In the decision to kill the preborn child, no one is dying.

 

[Kylie]

Kylie, where's your other thread? I'd like to take a look at it.

What other thread would that be?

 

[Kylie]

Oh no, I got your point. But it appears you (willfully?) missed mine. One of the fatal flaws in your analogy is that in the decision to donate a kidney, someone is dying. In the decision to kill the preborn child, no one is dying.

Ah, so it's acceptable to refuse to help a dying person because you can say, "They were going to die anyway, so it was okay for me to refuse to let part of my body keep them alive."

 

[o_mlly]

Ah, so it's acceptable to refuse to help a dying person because you can say, "They were going to die anyway, so it was okay for me to refuse to let part of my body keep them alive."

Wow, and you unjustly claim that I put up strawmen!

No one is morally required to undergo extraordinary medical treatment to save their own life, let alone the life of another. Heroic virtue allows one to do so but one is not vicious if they choose not to do so.

 

[Kylie]

Wow, and you unjustly claim that I put up strawmen!

No one is morally required to undergo extraordinary medical treatment to save their own life, let alone the life of another. Heroic virtue allows one to do so but one is not vicious if they choose not to do so.

So if a child was begging for me to use a part of my body to keep them alive, and I said no, you would think I was well within my rights to do so?

 

[o_mlly]

So if a child was begging for me to use a part of my body to keep them alive, and I said no, you would think I was well within my rights to do so?

What state, healthy and living or dying, is this child in? In your body? And there because you put him/her there?

 

[AV1611VET]

What other thread would that be?

You call this "My Kidney Challenge II"; is there a Kidney Challenge I?

 

[Kylie]

You call this "My Kidney Challenge II"; is there a Kidney Challenge I?

Yeah, but I made this new version so I could include a poll.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yeah, but I made this new version so I could include a poll.

Oh, okay.