My Interglacial Challenge

[Enfeoffment75]

Your claim did indicate some low brow personalities,

No, when it came to the DI I merely stated that I had not seen any real good science out of them. No personalities discussed.

If you click on their profile you will find some of their works.

Perhaps you can share with me one or two of the best pieces of science in your favorite list there. Tell me what specifically was the most interesting and how it can overturn a couple centuries of solid geologic and biological science.

Thanks!

 

[Strathos]

I am just wondering, if AV accepts the authority of these creationist doctors as experts on the subject, does he agree with everything they say, or just the parts that agree with his own personal version of creationism? Because I've noticed that if you delve deep into the specifics, every creationist will give you a different version.

 

[AV1611VET]

Tell Strathos that I doubt very seriously no two people agree completely on everything. Tell him we are like snowflakes, no two the same.

Tell him the good news that, someday, all that's going to change.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

 

[VirOptimus]

Tell Strathos that I doubt very seriously no two people agree completely on everything. Tell him we are like snowflakes, no two the same.

Tell him the good news that, someday, all that's going to change.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Physical reality, ie science, is not an opinion.

 

[Strathos]

Tell Strathos that I doubt very seriously no two people agree completely on everything. Tell him we are like snowflakes, no two the same.

Tell him the good news that, someday, all that's going to change.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Are you arrogant enough to think that when Jesus returns He will tell you that you got every single detail right?

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you arrogant enough to think that when Jesus returns He will tell you that you got every single detail right?

No.

Where did I say that?

I believe when He comes back, we are going to go through some serious Bible study with the Author himself, and He is going to set us ALL straight.

 

[Strathos]

No.

Where did I say that?

I believe when He comes back, we are going to go through some serious Bible study with the Author himself, and He is going to set us ALL straight.

Well that's a good attitude then.

 

[redleghunter]

Perhaps you can share with me one or two of the best pieces of science in your favorite list there. Tell me what specifically was the most interesting and how it can overturn a couple centuries of solid geologic and biological science.

Perhaps that is the issue. ID does not delve into refuting observable science.

https://evolutionnews.org/2016/11/irreducible_com_1/

 

[AV1611VET]

Well that's a good attitude then.

You scare me sometimes!

 

[redleghunter]

Physical reality, ie science, is not an opinion.

Although some post modern science has metaphysical issues.

 

[Enfeoffment75]

Perhaps that is the issue. ID does not delve into refuting observable science.

https://evolutionnews.org/2016/11/irreducible_com_1/

OK, so no actual science article, just more pop-sci writing. This appears to be a litany of critiques of critiques of Irreducible Complexity. I was rather hoping for something scientific.

Irreducible Complexity is usually disproven quite quickly. But I'm sure the next example will pop up. And it'll have to be disproven as most of the other ones I've seen.

Like I said, the science I see coming out DI hasn't impressed me as valid. I haven't seen everything they work with, and my area is more related to geology and chemistry than biology. The geology of young earth groups is usually abysmally off the mark or requires physics and chemistry that don't exist in this universe.

 

[redleghunter]

OK, so no actual science article, just more pop-sci writing. This appears to be a litany of critiques of critiques of Irreducible Complexity. I was rather hoping for something scientific.

It is scientific. Read on.

 

[redleghunter]

Irreducible Complexity is usually disproven quite quickly. But I'm sure the next example will pop up. And it'll have to be disproven as most of the other ones I've seen.

Doesn't seem so. Hand wave noted.

 

[VirOptimus]

Although some post modern science has metaphysical issues.

How about no.

 

[MyOwnSockPuppet]

Aren't we in an ice age right now?

Not really, in 1776 cannon from Ticonderoga were brought to Harlem Heights to support George Washington, over the frozen River Hudson. I don't believe the Hudson freezes very often at all any more, let alone freezes hard enough to carry artillery.
There were frost fairs on the River Thames, the last of which was in 1814, where the 11 inch thick ice was famously strong enough to support an elephant, as well as the assorted fairground rides and stalls that enterprising Londoners set up on it.

The climate scientists will tell you that the planet has been both hotter and colder than it currently is, there have been bones of hippopotomi and polar bears recovered from the Thames over the years, what is alarming the scientists is that while they can tell the global temperature has risen and fallen umpteen times before, the current rising trend is far faster than anything they have on record or anything that they can see from the fossil record.

Without the obvious hyperbole of "killing the planet", which aint going to happen, life being far tougher and more adaptable than that. There is considerable concern that we are going to make it distinctly less habitable for the species that generates the most headlines, amongst many others.

 

[AV1611VET]

... the current rising trend is far faster than anything they have on record or anything that they can see from the fossil record.

Doesn't this comport with what Jesus taught, that as the day of His return approaches, the frequency of these events will increase?

 

[Enfeoffment75]

It is scientific. Read on.

No, I didn't see any real "data" or discussion of data. Just kvetching about who critiqued the author's earlier works.

When I say science I mean more like peer-reviewed journal type stuff. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Enfeoffment75]

Doesn't seem so. Hand wave noted.

Again, I'm not seeing any real details in the link you provided. I did see "But so-and-so said this which I disagree with!"

And to be fair I'm not a biologist by training. I'm just going by all the biology I've read in response to the usual rogues gallery of irreducible complexity (eg "eyes" and "cilia motors", both of which were soundly and easily debunked as irreducibly complex.)

But let's go with the "philosophical" aspects (which is clearly more interesting to you than the hard science based on your selection of "science" literature so far presented). Let us assume there is some "intelligent designer", you do realize this has its own set of difficulties that really doesn't add much in the way of explanation of the origin of life:

1. What is the nature of this "intelligence". If it is living then you have not shown an "origin of life", you have merely suggested some life forms which we know about were "designed" (ie where did this designer come from?)

2. "Design" is nearly impossible to detect outside of cases where we KNOW it was designed (ie things we as humans made. Beyond that it is actually quite a difficult thing to suggest something was "Designed". There are a huge number of things in the universe which are very, very complex and "feel" to the human observer to be "designed" mainly because they are bafflingly complex. But then a pet iguana APPEARS to share some human emotions with their owners. Is it really true? Or is it our human tendency to anthropomorphize?) In other words: "seeming" to be something is not evidence for it to actually BE that thing.

 

[Belk]

Like you guys do with Henry Morris?Like you guys do to Ken Ham, Kent Hovind, ICR, DI, and any and all others?

What are you claiming their expertise to be?

 

[redleghunter]

How about no.

Maybe some cannot identify it, but the attribution of deity to natural selection clearly is held by some. They won't admit it but alas it's there.