• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

My Integrity Challenge

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
15,035
7,402
31
Wales
✟424,145.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
My fear would be that I would, overcome by excess funds, deny my conscience access to its usual judgement, and spend the too available money on what produces comfort rather than on what produces evidence. I.e. not so much integrity, after all.

The thing with integrity is that you often don't realise how much you actually have until you're called out on it.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Mark Quayle
Upvote 0

Tropical Wilds

Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
Oct 2, 2009
6,692
4,779
New England
✟257,133.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Since one poster here likes to bring up integrity a lot, I thought I would issue a challenge based on it.

Here's my challenge:

If you were offered one million dollars to find evidence of Noah's flood, would you:

A) Take it and go look somewhere?

B) Decline it on the basis that you are convinced scientifically that Noah's flood didn't occur?
C. Decline it because if somebody needs me to prove the scientific existence of something, I’m not it. I’m not sure what I’d be looking for, how to process the information to give data, or what to do to support my findings. I’d rather somebody else take the one million dollars who could use it to extrapolate information that’s seen as credible and quantifiable.
 
Upvote 0

Tropical Wilds

Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
Oct 2, 2009
6,692
4,779
New England
✟257,133.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Then take the money, if your integrity is for sale.



Then take the money, if your integrity is for sale.



Good for you.



Sacrificed.



Whether you find anything or not, you shot your integrity when you took the money.
Wait, so the act of taking the money means you don’t have integrity? I thought the question was if you’d take it to find the scientific proof, not if you’d self fund the exploration in order to prove the flood and thus collect $1 million.

If the question is if I would self-fund exploration to prove the flood so as to collect $1 million as a bounty, absolutely not. I can’t afford that, I would never spend my money on such a thing, and I’d suspect the terms of the payout would be vague enough to mean the house always wins and the money is never paid.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Mark Quayle
Upvote 0

SelfSim

A non "-ist"
Jun 23, 2014
7,045
2,232
✟210,136.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Private
Your integrity is shot right there.
You clearly do not realise that it is not you who gets to decide on someone else's state of integrity.

Integrity has a couple of different meanings. Someone who chooses its meaning as being the state of 'completeness and wholeness' is not necessarily bound to someone else's subjective opinion-basis of what's 'moral' and what isn't (as you falsely assume it is above).

Some of the most evil villians in history can also be assessed as being highly consistent, with their own expressed (and recorded) standards for which they advocated. They can therefore be said as having maintained their integrity even when their actions were considered immoral.

Yet again you fail to understand your own question .. in this case, due to your ignorance of meanings other than your own, applicable to the concept of 'integrity'.
 
Upvote 0

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
15,035
7,402
31
Wales
✟424,145.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
You clearly do not realise that it is not you who gets to decide on someone else's state of integrity.

Integrity has a couple of different meanings. Someone who chooses its meaning as being the state of 'completeness and wholeness' is not necessarily bound to someone else's subjective opinion-basis of what's 'moral' and what isn't (as you falsely assume it is above).

Some of the most evil villians in history can also be assessed as being highly consistent, with their own expressed (and recorded) standards for which they advocated. They can therefore be said as having maintained their integrity even when their actions were considered immoral.

Yet again you fail to understand your own question .. in this case, due to your ignorance of meanings other than your own, applicable to the concept of 'integrity'.

Hence why I kept asking 'why?' in response to that post.
 
Upvote 0

dlamberth

Senior Contributor
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
20,146
3,176
Oregon
✟929,076.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Politics
US-Others
How about respecting the integrity of the work already done? A LOT of effort, funds and time has already gone into the effort in finding evidence of Noah's flood. And through the years of trying, they keep coming up empty.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,855,604
52,510
Guam
✟5,127,865.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
C. Decline it because if somebody needs me to prove the scientific existence of something, I’m not it. I’m not sure what I’d be looking for, how to process the information to give data, or what to do to support my findings. I’d rather somebody else take the one million dollars who could use it to extrapolate information that’s seen as credible and quantifiable.

In the meantime, what do you think of those who say with conviction that there was no flood; yet would take the money?
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,855,604
52,510
Guam
✟5,127,865.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Wait, so the act of taking the money means you don’t have integrity?

It does, if you claim there is no evidence, then take someone's offer to go look.

I think that's called "putting the cart before the horse."

What if I swore up and down that Bigfoot doesn't exist, then took someone's money to go look for him?
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,855,604
52,510
Guam
✟5,127,865.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
You clearly do not realise that it is not you who gets to decide on someone else's state of integrity.

Correct.

Their actions will determine that.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,855,604
52,510
Guam
✟5,127,865.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
How about respecting the integrity of the work already done? A LOT of effort, funds and time has already gone into the effort in finding evidence of Noah's flood. And through the years of trying, they keep coming up empty.

That's a good question.

But it's not a part of this challenge.

My challenge is to those who have accepted the work already done, believe it wholeheartedly, and even go so far as to ridicule those who think otherwise.
 
Upvote 0

essentialsaltes

Fact-Based Lifeform
Oct 17, 2011
41,798
44,910
Los Angeles Area
✟1,000,559.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
In the meantime, what do you think of those who say with conviction that there was no flood; yet would take the money?
There's no shortage of them.

Following the exposure of the hoax, Jammal was initially reluctant to comment for fear of legal reprisal.[124] However, in October 1993 he admitted that he made up the entire story.[127] The wood he presented on-screen had in fact been pine found near some railroad tracks in Long Beach, California, which he boiled with spices and baked in an oven
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Mark Quayle
Upvote 0

Mark Quayle

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist
Site Supporter
May 28, 2018
14,282
6,364
69
Pennsylvania
✟944,243.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Widowed
  • Agree
Reactions: AV1611VET
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,855,604
52,510
Guam
✟5,127,865.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Upvote 0

Tropical Wilds

Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
Oct 2, 2009
6,692
4,779
New England
✟257,133.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
In the meantime, what do you think of those who say with conviction that there was no flood; yet would take the money?
I think that is between them and an entity who’s not me.
 
Upvote 0

Tropical Wilds

Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
Oct 2, 2009
6,692
4,779
New England
✟257,133.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It does, if you claim there is no evidence, then take someone's offer to go look.

I think that's called "putting the cart before the horse."

What if I swore up and down that Bigfoot doesn't exist, then took someone's money to go look for him?
It would depend if you’re open to the possibility that Bigfoot could exist.
 
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
15,464
8,138
50
The Wild West
✟752,428.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Since one poster here likes to bring up integrity a lot, I thought I would issue a challenge based on it.

Here's my challenge:

If you were offered one million dollars to find evidence of Noah's flood, would you:

A) Take it and go look somewhere?

B) Decline it on the basis that you are convinced scientifically that Noah's flood didn't occur?

I don’t think one million dollars would be enough for such a project. For a proper expeditiion, I think one would need at least twenty million dollars, for equipment, for chartering an aircraft, and so on. There is also the not inconsiderable problem of access to Mount Ararat being highly restricted by Turkey, as part of their military presence to keep the Armenians, who are the rightful owners of the mountain, from attempting to reclaim it, despite the genocide which they waged against them. They were able to get away with this during the Cold War because unfortunately for the Armenians, the Soviet Union invaded and annexed them in the 1920s, and thus the Soviet frontier ran very close to Mount Ararat.

Now, in the past, corrupt officials might have provided access to Mount Ararat, but this is no longer an option, for Americans at least, because the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act prohibits Americans from bribing officials abroad, and is even less of an option if we are talking about ethics and integrity. So ultimately everything is contingent on persuading Turkey to allow access.

I myself think the wood of the ark would have decomposed by now, or be buried under material which if disturbed could cause a landslide and much havoc, and so such an expedition is not worth it; we can assert that a flood happened since the prevailing trend is for both the mythological history and the religions of the region to record an epic deluge, which reinforces the scriptural claims concerning the Flood, although conversely, we also know that a flood could not have covered the entire planet, but in referring to the world, the Bible could well have been referring to the region in which Noah lived, which was, to all extents and purposes, his world, since other areas were effectively inaccessible to him. Just as the universe is for us limited to the observable universe; we cannot see beyond our past lightcone or hope to travel beyond the edge of our potential future lightcone, measured by the speed of light. But if you gave me twenty million, I would try to find evidence of the Ark, although even then I am not sure that would be enough money, and that would come with the caveat that the Turks could shut the entire project down before it even started.

I don’t see what’s wrong with accepting the ark as an article of faith. Furthermore, the main value of the ark in Scripture is its typological-prophetic role: the Ark is a type of the Church, which is the Ship of Salvation, and also of the Blessed Virgin Mary, in that it carried the future of mankind in its hull, just as she carried in her womb the future of mankind in the person of the Son of Man, our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ. So while I do not deny the Genesis narrative, I think, based on the ending of Luke, that we must regard it as an historical event which pointed to the future incarnation of God in the person of Jesus Christ.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,855,604
52,510
Guam
✟5,127,865.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I don’t see what’s wrong with accepting the ark as an article of faith.

But for the record, you believe the Flood was real ... right?

But what if you were convinced scientifically that the Flood wasn't real?

Would you accept that twenty million dollars to go look anyway?
 
Upvote 0