My Human Being Challenge

[lesliedellow]

Work? as in being accepted by all denominations?

Labels like "evangelical" and "modernist" can be made to mean whatever the user wants them to mean. Especially the latter, which in the mouth of a fundamentalist means little more than "not a fundamentalist".

 

[AV1611VET]

In context it is irrelevant.

Actually it is.

The church I attend does not affiliate itself with Evangelicalism or Modernism.

Fundamentalists get their name from The Fundamentals.

I seriously doubt that.

How's come I never heard of this creep Lyman Stewart, then?

And for the record, I question R.A. Torrey's and Moody Bible Institute's participation in this movement.

Also, Independent Baptist is a contradiction in terms.

Is it now?

Baptists are a denomination.

Good for them.

We are not a denomination though ... we are a church.

It goes like this:

One person is a believer.
Two or more believers make a church.
Two or more churches make churches.

Egyptian (worldly) Baptists go like this:

One person is a believer.
Two or more believers make a church.
Two or more churches make a denomination.

Therefore, if you are independent of it, you are, by definition, not a Baptist.

Um ... wrong.

We don't send our money to a central location, and they don't tell us what to preach.

 

[AV1611VET]

Labels like "evangelical" and "modernist" can be made to mean whatever the user wants them to mean.

Speaking from experience?

 

[HitchSlap]

What I have said has nothing to do with the physical world

Or reality, for that matter.

 

[lesliedellow]

I seriously doubt that.

Doubt it or not, it is a fact; although the number of fundamentalists who have read The Fundamentals could probably be counted on the fingers of one hand - without putting your thumb to any undue trouble.

How's come I never heard of this creep Lyman Stewart, then?

I haven't a clue who he is, but you have clearly heard of him, because you have just used his name.

 

[lesliedellow]

Speaking from experience?

Speaking as somebody who has heard Karl Barth being described as a modernist.

 

[AV1611VET]

Speaking as somebody who has heard Karl Barth being described as a modernist.

The Protestant MOVEMENT should have ended centuries ago.

As far as I know, the Baptists do not recognize a Protestant denomination.

And if they do ... well ... whatever floats their boat, I guess.

 

[lesliedellow]

The Protestant MOVEMENT should have ended centuries ago.

The Pope has just joined your fan club.

 

[AV1611VET]

The Pope has just joined your fan club.

He'd better change his theology then, or he won't be taking communion in our church.

 

[Ana the Ist]

So intelligence dictates a person's demeanor?

Not alone...no.

 

[miknik5]

Not alone...no.

Really, Ana?

Then what does?

And please don't say the circumstances of life

Yes, we understand that but it's those circumstances that make a person who they are inwardly

And it's those circumstances that affect the condition of their heart and mind

That's their spirit

 

[Ana the Ist]

Really, Ana?

Then what does?

It's a combination of things...chemicals, hormones, and certainly the interplay between genetics on both of those factors...as well as culture, intelligence, and probably several other factors.

It's difficult for me to understand how this isn't so obvious to you. You're old enough to have been around women during their monthly hormonal changes...haven't you noticed how drastically that can alter their personalities? Even if only for a few hours on a few days? Ever been around someone who is drinking alcohol? Ever notice how just that one chemical introduced into the bloodstream can make some act dramatically different from their everyday personality?

I'm curious how you reconcile such obvious things with your personal beliefs about the "spirit" or the "soul"...do you think souls get drunk as well? Perhaps souls go through hormonal changes on a monthly basis lol? I'm sorry, but it's hard not to laugh at such naivete.

And please don't say the circumstances of life

Why not? Cannot those also have profound impacts upon who we are and they way we think?

Yes, we understand that but it's those circumstances that make a person who they are inwardly

They can...depending upon the circumstances and the person.

And it's those circumstances that affect the condition of their heart and mind

That's their spirit

If by "heart" you mean their emotions...which are chemical in origin...yeah. If by mind you mean the architecture of the brain and it's ability to alter itself due to changing perceptions and conditions...yeah.

When you dismiss all these things as merely being a soul or spirit though...you've basically ended any sort of rational inquiry into what is going on inside a person...and what reasons cause them to act the way they do. We're never going to find a soul...or a spirit...because they don't exist. Those concepts are lazy attempts to avoid difficult questions and only impede any real understanding into who someone is and why they act the way they do.

 

[miknik5]

It's a combination of things...chemicals, hormones, and certainly the interplay between genetics on both of those factors...as well as culture, intelligence, and probably several other factors.

It's difficult for me to understand how this isn't so obvious to you. You're old enough to have been around women during their monthly hormonal changes...haven't you noticed how drastically that can alter their personalities? Even if only for a few hours on a few days? Ever been around someone who is drinking alcohol? Ever notice how just that one chemical introduced into the bloodstream can make some act dramatically different from their everyday personality?

I'm curious how you reconcile such obvious things with your personal beliefs about the "spirit" or the "soul"...do you think souls get drunk as well? Perhaps souls go through hormonal changes on a monthly basis lol? I'm sorry, but it's hard not to laugh at such naivete.




Why not? Cannot those also have profound impacts upon who we are and they way we think?



They can...depending upon the circumstances and the person.



If by "heart" you mean their emotions...which are chemical in origin...yeah. If by mind you mean the architecture of the brain and it's ability to alter itself due to changing perceptions and conditions...yeah.

When you dismiss all these things as merely being a soul or spirit though...you've basically ended any sort of rational inquiry into what is going on inside a person...and what reasons cause them to act the way they do. We're never going to find a soul...or a spirit...because they don't exist. Those concepts are lazy attempts to avoid difficult questions and only impede any real understanding into who someone is and why they act the way they do.

What do you mean it's difficult for you to understand why I don't know this?

Do you know anything past this present temporal existence

Do you even believe that there is anything past this present temporal existence?

Your post was a very good one if there were no GOD and no truth that there is more than just this temporal physical existence

 

[miknik5]

What you have laid out in concrete words and medical explanations for these invisible hidden expressions within a man that manifest themselves outwardly through the person's actions/works translates to a person's spirit

 

[miknik5]

And it's this "hidden expression" which GOD sees and will judge
Because the heart is the wellspring of life and out of it comes what is inwardly hidden in the man

 

[Ana the Ist]

What do you mean it's difficult for you to understand why I don't know this?

It just seems to me that if any thought were given to the topic...my statements would appear rather obvious. I'll admit though, that perhaps I've assumed too much about you.

Do you know anything past this present temporal existence

This is confusing the way you worded it. Did you mean "apart from this reality?" If you did...I'm fairly certain that even if the entire universe and everything in it were obliterated, 1+1 would still equal 2.

Do you even believe that there is anything past this present temporal existence?

Again, I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with this question by the way you worded it. Are you asking if I believe that there's anything beyond my own temporal existence? If so...yes...our conversation is evidence enough for the existence of at least one other temporal existence (yours).

Your post was a very good one if there were no GOD and no truth that there is more than just this temporal physical existence

Thanks? I'm not sure you meant that as a compliment...but it reads as one from where I'm sitting.

How hard have you looked into the topic at hand? Did you just accept what you've been told at Sunday school or did you examine it critically?

The fact is, there are many many cases now in medical record of people receiving a traumatic brain injury that while not reducing their capabilities or intelligence...it dramatically altered their personality. If whatever concept you hold of a "soul" or "spirit" is your explanation of how one's personality is "generated"....how could you explain such medical facts?

Furthermore, why are you so resistant to the idea that our personalities are the result of the interplay between the material architecture of our brains, the chemicals in our bodies, and hormones and such? Why is it so vexing for you?

 

[Ana the Ist]

What you have laid out in concrete words and medical explanations for these invisible hidden expressions within a man that manifest themselves outwardly through the person's actions/works translates to a person's spirit

And it's this "hidden expression" which GOD sees and will judge
Because the heart is the wellspring of life and out of it comes what is inwardly hidden in the man

Were these two posts directed at me? I'm only asking because they were posted so closely to the one you did direct at me....and you worded them as if you're speaking to someone specifically.

 

[miknik5]

It just seems to me that if any thought were given to the topic...my statements would appear rather obvious. I'll admit though, that perhaps I've assumed too much about you.



This is confusing the way you worded it. Did you mean "apart from this reality?" If you did...I'm fairly certain that even if the entire universe and everything in it were obliterated, 1+1 would still equal 2.



Again, I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with this question by the way you worded it. Are you asking if I believe that there's anything beyond my own temporal existence? If so...yes...our conversation is evidence enough for the existence of at least one other temporal existence (yours).



Thanks? I'm not sure you meant that as a compliment...but it reads as one from where I'm sitting.

How hard have you looked into the topic at hand? Did you just accept what you've been told at Sunday school or did you examine it critically?

The fact is, there are many many cases now in medical record of people receiving a traumatic brain injury that while not reducing their capabilities or intelligence...it dramatically altered their personality. If whatever concept you hold of a "soul" or "spirit" is your explanation of how one's personality is "generated"....how could you explain such medical facts?

Furthermore, why are you so resistant to the idea that our personalities are the result of the interplay between the material architecture of our brains, the chemicals in our bodies, and hormones and such? Why is it so vexing for you?

What I've been told?
Do you know WHO told me?

That TRUTH has settled it...for me

Yes, there is more to this than this present temporal existence/reality

And 1+1=2 until what is prophecied in 2 Thessalonians 2 actually comes to pass

Then all the things which have held as long held "truths"

Will no longer hold

When that happens, though the realities of this will be terrible and frightening, I pray the brains of some will receive the correct stimulus that instead of cursing/blaming GOD, they will turn to HIM and repent

 

[bhsmte]

What I've been told?
Do you know WHO told me?

That TRUTH has settled it...for me

Yes, there is more to this than this present temporal existence/reality

And 1+1=2 until what is prophecied in 2 Thessalonians 2 actually comes to pass

Then all the things which have held as long held "truths"

Will no longer hold

When that happens, though the realities of this will be terrible and frightening, I pray the brains of some will receive the correct stimulus that instead of cursing/blaming GOD, they will turn to HIM

Opinion

 

[miknik5]

Opinion

TRUTH