My Gospel by Paul

[Strong in Him]

Interesting, you make such a big deal about people unable to explain to you.

I didn't.
I previously asked you to explain why you were saying that Jesus/the apostles and Paul preached different Gospels, when they taught the same thing.
Your answer: "look at this chart that someone else has made" - and which didn't answer my question anyway.

So when they actually do explain to you slowly and carefully, you don't even want to consider what they are saying.

Once you formed your belief, you don't really care what Galatians 1:8-9 is actually saying.

I know what Galatians 1:8-9 - and the rest of the book is saying.

People were going around teaching that circumcision was necessary as well as faith in Jesus; in other words "Jesus isn't enough; be circumcised as well in order to be saved". Paul says that he was astonished that they were deserting Christ and living by another Gospel. - "which is really no Gospel at all." Galatians 1:7. He said that some were trying to confuse the Galatians and pervert the Gospel of Christ. But that even if an angel from heaven were to preach a Gospel that was different from the one that Paul had preached to them, they should be cursed. The rest of the book is an argument against circumcision and being under the law. If the Galatian Christians valued circumcision, it meant that Christ was of no value to them at all.

Yes, this addressed to the Galatians, who seemed to have a problem with/were giving into the doctrine of salvation by circumcision. But the principle still applies to us - there is one Gospel, don't be deceived and tempted to abandon it for a gospel which isn't really a Gospel at all.
For us that might be; obey the law/do good works/tithe/go to a certain church/read a certain Bible to be true Christians and to be saved.
Jesus died for our sins, is the Way to the Father and is the only name by which we can be saved - Jesus, Paul and Peter all taught that.

 

[bling]

Well technically the sun is stationary relative to the earth and all the planets as they revolve around the sun.
God could have stopped the earth from rotating & also mitigated all the acceleration forces that would result so nobody would fly off etc.
If He can stop the earth rotating for a period then stopping the moon would be a cinch. He need not do anything else in the solar system, just stop the earth & moon for a period of time.

Just a reminder you were going to get back with me explaining these passages:

You asked:

Ok, can you provide the relevant passages please & I will have a look.

II replied:
Acts 11:19 Now those who had been scattered by the persecution that broke out when Stephen was killed traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, spreading the word only among Jews. 20 Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus. 21 The Lord’s hand was with them, and a great number of people believed and turned to the Lord…..they sent Barnabas to Antioch….25 Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch.

Read the sermon Paul preached in the synagogue to both Jews and Gentiles on his first Sabbath day there in Acts 13 and tell me how the Jewish Gospel is different from the Gentile gospel, since Gentiles were there also?

Acts 13: 46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

Paul is not saying he is preach anything different to the Gentiles, they might not have complained if Paul was preaching a different message to the gentiles.

Acts 14: 1 At Iconium Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the Jewish synagogue. There they spoke so effectively that a great number of Jews and Greeks believed.

Acts 17: 1 When Paul and his companions had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue. 2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said. 4 Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and quite a few prominent women.

Acts 17:10…On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. 11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. 12 As a result, many of them believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.

Acts 18: 2 There he met a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla,

Acts 18: 5 Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah.

Acts 18: 7 Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. 8 Crispus, the synagogue leader, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard Paul believed and were baptized.

 

[Sorn]

Just a reminder you were going to get back with me explaining these passages:

You asked:


II replied:
Acts 11:19 Now those who had been scattered by the persecution that broke out when Stephen was killed traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, spreading the word only among Jews. 20 Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus. 21 The Lord’s hand was with them, and a great number of people believed and turned to the Lord…..they sent Barnabas to Antioch….25 Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch.

Read the sermon Paul preached in the synagogue to both Jews and Gentiles on his first Sabbath day there in Acts 13 and tell me how the Jewish Gospel is different from the Gentile gospel, since Gentiles were there also?

Acts 13: 46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

Paul is not saying he is preach anything different to the Gentiles, they might not have complained if Paul was preaching a different message to the gentiles.

Acts 14: 1 At Iconium Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the Jewish synagogue. There they spoke so effectively that a great number of Jews and Greeks believed.

Acts 17: 1 When Paul and his companions had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue. 2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said. 4 Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and quite a few prominent women.

Acts 17:10…On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. 11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. 12 As a result, many of them believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.

Acts 18: 2 There he met a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla,

Acts 18: 5 Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah.

Acts 18: 7 Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. 8 Crispus, the synagogue leader, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard Paul believed and were baptized.

I did reply, post #191. Your essential questions was did Paul teach 1 or 2 gospels & i gave my opinion.
With regard to baptism, many do regard it as essential, though i think as you do in your post #192.
However if it is just a way of celebrating being saved then a person should be free to choose anyway they want to celebrate, though of course most will choose baptism as its the traditional way of doing so given the symbology in the practice.

 

[Jipsah]

a person should be free to choose anyway they want to celebrate, though of course most will choose baptism as its the traditional way of doing so given the symbology in the practice.

There's also a commandment to be baptized given us by from our Lord Christ that a lot of people take very seriously. I 'spect that has more to do with it than either tradition or symbologogy.

 

[bling]

Paul would not have taught 2 gospels, just the one, the main difference between what Paul would have taught and what Perter would have taught, as I see it, is that Peter would have taught that baptism was required, as per Mark 16:16, whereas Paul was never instructed by Christ that baptism was required, 1 Cor 1:16-17.
However Paul would not have had a problem if someone wanted to be baptized, especially if they were a jew or a proselyte.

Both the Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians attended the same church, each city Paul started churches in did not have Jewish and gentile churches, but Rome might have had two denominations, which Paul taught against in Romans.
You said in post 16: Paul is the apostle to the gentiles only. The other 11 apostles are the apostles to the Jews and they taught a slightly different gospel.
I showed He went to the Jews first in all the cities he went to and sometimes Gentiles were listening in.
I am not saying Baptism was a celebration event, but something Christians need to do, to help them.
Do you have a problem being adult believer water baptized?

 

[ladodgers6]

What "covenant of works"?
God told Adam he could eat from any tree in the garden except one. He disobeyed.

Thanks for the question, read Hosea 6:7. If you need more information let me know.

 

[Guojing]

I know what Galatians 1:8-9 - and the rest of the book is saying.

Yes, this addressed to the Galatians, who seemed to have a problem with/were giving into the doctrine of salvation by circumcision. But the principle still applies to us - there is one Gospel, don't be deceived and tempted to abandon it for a gospel which isn't really a Gospel at all.

Yes, of course Galatians 1:8-9 apply to us. We are gentiles, just like who the unto you was directed to.

I am saying, Paul is not saying there is only ONE gospel for everyone there, and you are misinterpreting him as saying that.

When Peter, James and John tell the circumcised that their faith required works to be justified/righteous (James 2:24, 1 John 3:7), they are preaching another gospel, which is the gospel of the circumcision. (Galatians 2:7-9)

But Paul would not say they are accursed, because the circumcised are not the audience of his unto you.

You get my point now?

 

[Guojing]

OK, every sentence spoken by or Lord, or St. Paul, or any of the other saint, is a different "gospel" because they didn't all say the same precise thing.

Silliness abounds.

So if the term gospel means good news, God has various different good news throughout scripture that he gave to different people at different times.

Why would you consider that silly?

 

[Jipsah]

So if the term gospel means good news, God has various different good news throughout scripture that he gave to different people at different times.

Why would you consider that silly?

Because you've taken a term that actually means something, ie, the Good News of Christ, and made it mean nothing at all.

 

[Guojing]

Because you've taken a term that actually means something, ie, the Good News of Christ, and made it mean nothing at all.

As I said, the word "gospel" simply means good news.

Gospel is not equivalent to Gospel of Christ. It is only silly if you automatically assume these 2 terms are equivalent.

 

[Sorn]

I am not saying Baptism was a celebration event, but something Christians need to do, to help them.
Do you have a problem being adult believer water baptized?

So is a person saved if they are not baptized but believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior who is God the Son and died for our sins, was buried and rose again so we will too? If you can be a Christian without being baptized then baptism is a celebration only, it may be a good one but a celebration only. To say otherwise means its a work & we are back to works for salvation.
Also re 'to help them', well reading the bible helps then too, having fellowship with other Christians helps them too, is someone not saved if they don't do these things??

 

[Sorn]

There's also a commandment to be baptized given us by from our Lord Christ that a lot of people take very seriously. I 'spect that has more to do with it than either tradition or symbologogy.

Thats why some say there are 2 Gospels, or 'ways to be saved'. Paul was not given that command. Either you area Christian based on your faith and the grace of God through the saving work of Jesus & that is enough or a work from us is also required.

 

[Jipsah]

Thats why some say there are 2 Gospels, or 'ways to be saved'. Paul was not given that command.

More rubbish.

 

[Jipsah]

So is a person saved if they are not baptized but believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior who is God the Son and died for our sins, was buried and rose again so we will too?

Above my pay grade, and irrelevant in any case. Unless you simply want to say that a commandment from our Lord may be igored if it doesn't jibe with our symbology or traditions.

If you can be a Christian without being baptized then baptism is a celebration only, it may be a good one but a celebration only.

Just a pointless exercise, then, eh? Right up there with communion.

To say otherwise means its a work & we are back to works for salvation.

we're pretty much free to do as we please, then, right? "Do as thou wilt..."?

Also re 'to help them', well reading the bible helps then too

That's a lot of trouble too, though, isn't it?

, having fellowship with other Christians helps them too, is someone not saved if they don't do these things??

I think I've got it reduced down to sitting at home and drinking beer. Pretty good plan, huh?

 

[Sorn]

Above my pay grade, and irrelevant in any case. Unless you simply want to say that a commandment from our Lord may be igored if it doesn't jibe with our symbology or traditions.

Just a pointless exercise, then, eh? Right up there with communion.

we're pretty much free to do as we please, then, right? "Do as thou wilt..."?

That's a lot of trouble too, though, isn't it?

I think I've got it reduced down to sitting at home and drinking beer. Pretty good plan, huh?

Reading the bible and having fellowship helps Christians grow, but its not what saved them, getting baptized is not what saves you, not even 1% of it.

When you finish university, if you don't attend the graduation ceremony, do you still get your degree?

 

[Strong in Him]

.

 

[Strong in Him]

When Peter, James and John tell the circumcised that their faith required works to be justified/righteous (James 2:24, 1 John 3:7), they are preaching another gospel, which is the gospel of the circumcision. (Galatians 2:7-9)

No, they are not.

James says that a person demonstrates their faith by their actions.
Abraham was declared righteous before God, because he believed God when he promised that Abraham, a 90 year old man, would have, not just one child but many descendants, Genesis 15:6. At that point, Abraham was righteous.
But he showed his great faith in God by being prepared to offer his only son, to God, in a sacrifice. That action did not "save" Abraham, make him righteous, worthy of receiving blessings, or anything else. Abraham already had faith, had already been declared righteous, had a covenant with God and been promised many blessings. His action demonstrated the faith which he already had.
As William Barclay says, faith and action are inseparable; they are opposite sides of a man's experience with God.
Jesus said something similar when he said, "whoever hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice, is like a foolish man who built his house on sand", Matthew 7:26.
(That said, if a person was on their deathbed and accepted Christ, I believe that would be enough to save them - though they had no time to do anything.)

And John does not talk about being saved by works, at all. So there is no "gospel of works", or circumcision.

 

[Guojing]

No, they are not.

James says that a person demonstrates their faith by their actions.
Abraham was declared righteous before God, because he believed God when he promised that Abraham, a 90 year old man, would have, not just one child but many descendants, Genesis 15:6. At that point, Abraham was righteous.
But he showed his great faith in God by being prepared to offer his only son, to God, in a sacrifice. That action did not "save" Abraham, make him righteous, worthy of receiving blessings, or anything else. Abraham already had faith, had already been declared righteous, had a covenant with God and been promised many blessings. His action demonstrated the faith which he already had.
As William Barclay says, faith and action are inseparable; they are opposite sides of a man's experience with God.
Jesus said something similar when he said, "whoever hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice, is like a foolish man who built his house on sand", Matthew 7:26.
(That said, if a person was on their deathbed and accepted Christ, I believe that would be enough to save them - though they had no time to do anything.)

And John does not talk about being saved by works, at all. So there is no "gospel of works", or circumcision.

I am taking what they stated in James 2:24 and 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:15 literally

You are spiritualizing those verses.

But the point is, the gospel of the circumcision, works are required to show faith, and yes, you understood Matthew 7:26 correctly there.

Jesus, James and John preached that to Israel.

While our gospel of the uncircumcision, we are justified by faith alone, without works (Romans 4:5).

 

[Strong in Him]

I am taking what they stated in James 2:24 and 1 John 3:7 literally

You are spiritualizing those verses.

You don't seem to understand the difference between reading/studying verses in context, and spiritualising.

But the point is, the gospel of the circumcision, works are required to show faith.

There is no "gospel of circumcision.
"Gospel" means "Good News". That circumcision was needed to be saved was not the Gospel, was not Good News and is precisely what Paul, and others, were arguing against.

Works are not required to show faith - otherwise those on their deathbeds could not have faith and be saved. The penitent thief on the cross could do no works, yet Jesus said he would be with him in paradise.
Jesus saves - no other name, Acts 4:12, no other way to the Father, John 14:6.

 

[Guojing]

There is no "gospel of circumcision.

Galatians 2:7-9 stated those 2 gospels clearly, again I take the KJV literally there.

You are not going to change your mind, no matter how I explain, so let's just move on.