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My family is threatening to disown me if I get married to my fiance

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The whole of Christianity IS a compromise of 'gods' word. Paul of Tarsus changed practically everything, to win over Gentile converts. Jesus said 'not one jot or tittle of the law is to be changed'

Paul totally obliterated all the jots & tittles!
My fellow Christians, behold exhibit A as evidence as to the reason for the moral depravity in our culture. It is because Christians compromised the word of God to appease an ever-changing world which is never satisfied. So Theo, please enlighten us. What exactly did Paul change that warrants all of Christendom to "throw the baby out with the bathwater".

BTW...In regards to "jots and tittles", what did Jesus say immediately after your quote? Surely you know. I will give you a hint, it begins with "until".
 
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Theo Barnsley

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Exactly. It’s where people cherry pick that is the issue. However you apply and interpret the Bible, it needs to be uniformly.
I have never met once a christian who dosnt cherry pick!
 
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Theo Barnsley

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My fellow Christians, behold exhibit A as evidence as to the reason for the moral depravity in our culture. It is because Christians compromised the word of God to appease an ever-changing world which is never satisfied. So Theo, pleas enlighten us. What exactly did Paul change that warrants all of Christendom to "throw the baby out with the bathwater".

BTW...In regards to "jots and tittles", what did Jesus say immediately after your quote? Surely you know. I will give you a hint, it begins with "until".
You sound deluded by your own sense of grandeur "My fellow christians" Do you think you are a reincarnation of Paul or something?

Paul made the claim that Christians no longer needed to follow the Jewish law. He also said that it was impossible to follow the law, despite the fact that there are Jews living today who still observe the law.

All you have to do is believe in the resuretion of christ or something similar. I dont remember the full gist of it, because it has been a while. And whenever anything is bought up in the old testament that christians dont like, they are always ready to remind everybody of the fact that the Jewish law no longer applies. Of course when they say that, they mean all laws except the one relating to homosexuality!

In the King James Version of the Bible the text reads:

For verily I say unto you, Till
heaven and earth pass, one jot or one
tittle shall in no wise pass from
the law, till all be fulfilled.

The World English Bible translates the passage as:

For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven
and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter
or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away
from the law, until all things are accomplished.

Has heaven & earth passed away?
 
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In the King James Version of the Bible the text reads:

For verily I say unto you, Till
heaven and earth pass, one jot or one
tittle shall in no wise pass from
the law, till all be fulfilled.
The World English Bible translates the passage as:

For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven
and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter
or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away
from the law, until all things are accomplished.

Has heaven & earth passed away?
Well, what does John 19:30 say?
 
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Theo Barnsley

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So, let me get this straight. You think it is okay for a father to have a consensual sexual relationship with his adult daughter?
I really have no opinion on it, as long as it is between consenting adults. It is not something I have given much thought to. If I heard arguments for & against I might be swayed either way, If the arguments could prove harm to one of the parties, or a third party I may be against it. But if we are going to outlaw something, then there should be valid reasons for it. It shouldnt be legal just because the bible says it is OK, but it also shouldnt necessarily be illegal if no harm is caused to any other parties. The question of children being born from such a relationship is definately something that needs to be taken into consideration.

The bible DOES have an opinion on it however, & as it happened a no. of times in the bible with 'righteous men' who god saw as good men, then from a biblical point of view it seems to be perfectly OK.

You seem to be trying to trap me with things that the BIBLE itself says is OK. You are the one that is making the claim that because the bible condemns homosexuality it is wrong. Then YOU bring up polygamy & incest, & are trying to trap me with them, but it is the bible itself that says it is OK.

Didnt LOT (who offered his daughters to a group of men to be gang raped) in sodom & gomorah & who god saved before destroying sodom & gomorrah then go on to have sex with his own daughters? God must have known he would, because god apparently knows everything beforehand. Yet god still saved him because he is apparently righteous. Apparently in Gods view, you can offer up your daughters for gang rape, & then have sex with your daughters & still be righteous. Rather than trapping me, I think you have trapped yourself.
 
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Theo Barnsley

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Well, what does John 19:30 say?
So you dont like Jesus words in the synoptic gospels, so you have to try & explain it away by bringing up John. Why not just get rid of all the synoptic gospels & just leave the gospel of John in the bible? Whats the point of them being there, if you claim that they arent valid, because you dont like what Jesus said in them.

Whenever it is mentioned that Jesus never actually said he was god in the synoptic gospels, John is always quoted. Is the bible the word of god, or isnt it?If it is, then surely the synoptic gospels are every bit as valid as John. Or is only the Gospel of John the word of God? Why did Jesus words change when the gospel of John was written (which was well after the other gospels were written).

OR maybe we can get rid of the gospel of John & just stick to the synoptic gospels. It would certainly avoid a lot of confusion. Since they are written closer to Jesus death, they are more likely to closer to the account than John. And at least they do back one another up, to a point. Most of what is claimed in John has no other witness to it at all. Quite franly, I think that the gospel of Mark is probably the only honest gospel in the bible. If only the gospel of Mark was in the bible, I think we would have a much more accurate description of the real jesus.

And are you trying to make the claim that because Jesus supposedly said that 'it is finished' in the gospel of John (a statement that no other gospel confirms, so where is the 2 witness rule), that that means that heaven & earth has passed away? Well I am still here, so obviously earth has NOT passed away. Just more creative interpretation on your part to try & explain something that you know cant be explained.
 
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I really have no opinion on it, as long as it is between consenting adults. It is not something I have given much thought to. If I heard arguments for & against I might be swayed either way, If the arguments could prove harm to one of the parties, or a third party I may be against it. But if we are going to outlaw something, then there should be valid reasons for it. It shouldnt be legal just because the bible says it is OK, but it also shouldnt necessarily be illegal if no harm is caused to any other parties. The question of children being born from such a relationship is definately something that needs to be taken into consideration.

The bible DOES have an opinion on it however, & as it happened a no. of times in the bible with 'righteous men' who god saw as good men, then from a biblical point of view it seems to be perfectly OK.

You seem to be trying to trap me with things that the BIBLE itself says is OK. You are the one that is making the claim that because the bible condemns homosexuality it is wrong. Then YOU bring up polygamy & incest, & are trying to trap me with them, but it is the bible itself that says it is OK.

Didnt LOT (who offered his daughters to a group of men to be gang raped) in sodom & gomorah & who god saved before destroying sodom & gomorrah then go on to have sex with his own daughters? God must have known he would, because god apparently knows everything beforehand. Yet god still saved him because he is apparently righteous. Apparently in Gods view, you can offer up your daughters for gang rape, & then have sex with your daughters & still be righteous. Rather than trapping me, I think you have trapped yourself.
There are numerous examples of incest in the Bible. The most commonly thought-of examples are the sons/daughters of Adam and Eve (Genesis 4), Abraham marrying his half-sister Sarah (Genesis 20:12), Lot and his daughters (Genesis 19), Moses’ father Amram who married his aunt Jochebed (Exodus 6:20), and David’s son Amnon with his half-sister Tamar (2 Samuel 13). It is important to note, however, that in two of the above instances (Tamar and Lot), one of the parties involved was an unwilling participant in the incest—better described as rape in those cases.

It is important to distinguish between incestuous relationships prior to God commanding against them (Leviticus 18:6–18) and incest that occurred after God’s commands had been revealed. Until God commanded against it, it was not incest. It was just marrying a close relative. It is undeniable that God allowed “incest” in the early centuries of humanity. Since Adam and Eve were the only two human beings on earth, their sons and daughters had no choice but to marry and reproduce with their siblings and close relatives. The second generation had to marry their cousins, just as after the flood the grandchildren of Noah had to intermarry amongst their cousins. One reason that incest is so strongly discouraged in the world today is the understanding that reproduction between closely related individuals has a much higher risk of causing genetic abnormalities. In the early days of humanity, though, this was not a risk due to the fact that the human genetic code was relatively free of defects.

But once again, your biblical justification for same sex marriage is to argue that because Christians made compromises in the past, you demand that they throw the baby out with the bathwater.
 
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Theo Barnsley

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There are numerous examples of incest in the Bible. The most commonly thought-of examples are the sons/daughters of Adam and Eve (Genesis 4), Abraham marrying his half-sister Sarah (Genesis 20:12), Lot and his daughters (Genesis 19), Moses’ father Amram who married his aunt Jochebed (Exodus 6:20), and David’s son Amnon with his half-sister Tamar (2 Samuel 13). It is important to note, however, that in two of the above instances (Tamar and Lot), one of the parties involved was an unwilling participant in the incest—better described as rape in those cases.

It is important to distinguish between incestuous relationships prior to God commanding against them (Leviticus 18:6–18) and incest that occurred after God’s commands had been revealed. Until God commanded against it, it was not incest. It was just marrying a close relative. It is undeniable that God allowed “incest” in the early centuries of humanity. Since Adam and Eve were the only two human beings on earth, their sons and daughters had no choice but to marry and reproduce with their siblings and close relatives. The second generation had to marry their cousins, just as after the flood the grandchildren of Noah had to intermarry amongst their cousins. One reason that incest is so strongly discouraged in the world today is the understanding that reproduction between closely related individuals has a much higher risk of causing genetic abnormalities. In the early days of humanity, though, this was not a risk due to the fact that the human genetic code was relatively free of defects.

But once again, your biblical justification for same sex marriage is to argue that because Christians made compromises in the past, you demand that they throw the baby out with the bathwater.
As Paul of Tarsus (& now most Christians because Paul of Tarsus rules were easier to follow than Jesus rules which was to observe Jewish law) said that Jewish law is no longer required to be followed, then that also means that (Leviticus 18:6–18) is no longer required to be followed, according to the Christian view.

So if you look at the logic that 1. the laws under Leviticus 18:6–18
no longer need to be followed (according to Paul, because Jewish law no longer applies) & 2. There were plenty of instances where god approved of incest in the bible, a case could be made by any Christian that incest should be legalised. That is using a purely biblical interpretation. I wouldnt make that case, because I dont believe the bible should be used as the basis for any law, but a christian like yourself might.

And because Lot was drunk, that was his excuse was it? That excuse wouldnt hold up in any court of law today though, would it!
 
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Theo Barnsley

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This is starting to sound more and more like the standard "let's attack Christianity" thread.

Was the scenario in the OP just a hypothetical?
How hypocritical!

It was Ok to attack me & my girlfriend by linking transgender to paedophilia, beastiality & incest, & then when I fight back, ohhhh, its just an excuse to attack christians! i didnt attack anybody until I was attacked. NO, the thread WAS starting to sound like a "lets attack homosexuality thread" by suggesting it leads to beastialiity, inceest & paedophilllia. So I have just given back what was dished out in the 1st place.

If you read all of my posts, I never attacked anybody until that outrageous claim was made!
 
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Paul made the claim that Christians no longer needed to follow the Jewish law. He also said that it was impossible to follow the law, despite the fact that there are Jews living today who still observe the law.

All you have to do is believe in the resuretion of christ or something similar. I dont remember the full gist of it, because it has been a while. And whenever anything is bought up in the old testament that christians dont like, they are always ready to remind everybody of the fact that the Jewish law no longer applies. Of course when they say that, they mean all laws except the one relating to homosexuality!
I think at this point hearing what Paul writes in Romans 2 would be helpful. And I will provide the entire chapter so that you don't accuse me of "Cherry Picking". First the part that I think you will like:
"Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. 3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:" (Romans 2:1-6)

Sounds good right? Lets keep reading.

"7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God."

12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


Now this is the part I want to point out to all the Christians who have compromised the word of God and made excuses an accommodations at its expense. In this case they are no different than the Jews mentioned below.

The Jew Is Condemned by the Law
17 But if you bear the name “Jew” and upon the Law and boast in God, 18 and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth, 21 you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.

25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God
 
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Theo Barnsley

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My fellow Christians, behold exhibit A as evidence as to the reason for the moral depravity in our culture. It is because Christians compromised the word of God to appease an ever-changing world which is never satisfied.
How come when Christians talk about moral depravity, it is ALWAYS related to sex, as though there is NO OTHER form of moral depravity that has ever existed.

Wasnt people & animals being used as sport by the roman emperors in fights to the death, & other extreme cruelties a moral depravity.

Wasnt slavery a form of moral depravity? I am sure that any normal thinking & reasonable person in todays society would say that it is, yet, acccording to the god of Jews & christianity, perfectly OK.

(Today it is outlawed (only took several thousand years after the advent of christianity to do it), however unfortunately still exists in some areas).

Isnt racism a form of moral depravity (still exists unfortunately, but a lot better than it used to be).

Isnt anti-semitism a form of moral depravity (introduced into the christian bible in the Gospels after Mark, despite Jesus himself being a Jew). Millions of jews were killed by christians over the centuries, just because they were a Jew.

Wouldnt stoning somebody to death for breaking the sabbath or adultery be a moral depravity?

Isnt torturing somebody to force them to convert to a religion, or having them burnt at the stake or some other xtremely cruel death be a moral depravity?

Isnt genocide a moral depravity? (practised & ordered by the god of the O.T. on many occasions).

Isnt any form of unecessary animal cruelty a moral depravity?

We are probably much more moral as a society than we have ever been, especially in Secular countries. The main countries where most of the moral depravities still occur today is in the highly religious countries (mainly muslim countries these days, however christian countries were far worse than the worst of the muslim countries in the past).

I know that lots of Christians always point out the attrocities that still occur in Muslim countries today, to try to make the point that their religion is superior to the Muslim religions. However the reason that most of the atrocities has stopped in most christian countries is because they have become secular, & are no longer controlled by religious zealots.

Look at the shameful & cruel slavery that existed in America till the late 1800's (& really continued until the 1900's under the guise of share cropping). Also the slaughter of the Native Americans, & the segregation that was practised in parts of the USA until the 1960's, to name just a few things (not just picking on America, these attrocities & more occured in many other 'Christian' countries as well).

I keep hearing that we are approaching end times by Christians, because of all the 'moral depravity' in the world. Yet the only thing they can ever point to is sexual immorality & abortions. They never take into account the many other advances we have made as a society, in which many REAL depravities have decreased.

The majority of the so called 'sexual moral depravities' that are between consenting adults affects nobody else, & if christians werent so obseesed with it, it would not affect their life at all. The only reason it affects christians at all is because they WANT to be enraged about it. I guess if they didnt have something to be enraged about, many would lose all purpose in their life, & have no reason to keep believing that 'end times' are approacjhing, because there are not that many 'moral depravities' they can still point to.

The funny thing is, (really sad thing actually, because they may have been stamped out much earlier) when most of the moral depravities actually WERE occuring, most Christians didnt seem to think they were actually moral depravities, because they werent related to sex!

As for abortion, the no. of conceived babies that survive today (which includes aborted babies), is higher than it has ever been thanks to our increased understanding of the importance cleanliness & other medical advances. This is why the population stayed relatively static for many tens of thousands of years, & in the last 100 years there has been a population explosion.

Also in amcient times, especially in Israel due to the strict laws against adultery, in which a woman who had sex outside of marriage could be stoned to death, young women were forced to conceal the pregnancy, then go outside the town to a secluded place, where she would give birth & then leave the baby to die.

If there were complications during birth, the young woman would also die all alone. This was the affect of the stupidly harsh penalty for adultery, & an extremely cruel way for a new born child & mother to die. But probably less cruel than being stoned to death. And dont forget that, as well as the mother being stoned to death, the unborn child would also be getting stoned to death, a completely innocent party.
 
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That may be, but such arguments are utterly unconvincing to conservative Christians.
I acknowledge this.

Still, if conservatives can acknowledge that many people who accept
same-sex marriage are trying to honor principles from the Scriptures,
just as I can acknowledge that many conservatives are also trying
to honor principles from the Scriptures, our conversations can
be more civil, even though we disagree.
 
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How come when Christians talk about moral depravity, it is ALWAYS related to sex, as though there is NO OTHER form of moral depravity that has ever existed.

Wasnt people & animals being used as sport by the roman emperors in fights to the death, & other extreme cruelties a moral depravity.

Wasnt slavery a form of moral depravity? I am sure that any normal thinking & reasonable person in todays society would say that it is, yet, acccording to the god of Jews & christianity, perfectly OK.

(Today it is outlawed (only took several thousand years after the advent of christianity to do it), however unfortunately still exists in some areas).

Isnt racism a form of moral depravity (still exists unfortunately, but a lot better than it used to be).

Isnt anti-semitism a form of moral depravity (introduced into the christian bible in the Gospels after Mark, despite Jesus himself being a Jew). Millions of jews were killed by christians over the centuries, just because they were a Jew.

Wouldnt stoning somebody to death for breaking the sabbath or adultery be a moral depravity?

Isnt torturing somebody to force them to convert to a religion, or having them burnt at the stake or some other xtremely cruel death be a moral depravity?

Isnt genocide a moral depravity? (practised & ordered by the god of the O.T. on many occasions).

Isnt any form of unecessary animal cruelty a moral depravity?

We are probably much more moral as a society than we have ever been, especially in Secular countries. The main countries where most of the moral depravities still occur today is in the highly religious countries (mainly muslim countries these days, however christian countries were far worse than the worst of the muslim countries in the past).

I know that lots of Christians always point out the attrocities that still occur in Muslim countries today, to try to make the point that their religion is superior to the Muslim religions. However the reason that most of the atrocities has stopped in most christian countries is because they have become secular, & are no longer controlled by religious zealots.

Look at the shameful & cruel slavery that existed in America till the late 1800's (& really continued until the 1900's under the guise of share cropping). Also the slaughter of the Native Americans, & the segregation that was practised in parts of the USA until the 1960's, to name just a few things (not just picking on America, these attrocities & more occured in many other 'Christian' countries as well).

I keep hearing that we are approaching end times by Christians, because of all the 'moral depravity' in the world. Yet the only thing they can ever point to is sexual immorality & abortions. They never take into account the many other advances we have made as a society, in which many REAL depravities have decreased.

The majority of the so called 'sexual moral depravities' that are between consenting adults affects nobody else, & if christians werent so obseesed with it, it would not affect their life at all. The only reason it affects christians at all is because they WANT to be enraged about it. I guess if they didnt have something to be enraged about, many would lose all purpose in their life, & have no reason to keep believing that 'end times' are approacjhing, because there are not that many 'moral depravities' they can still point to.

The funny thing is, (really sad thing actually, because they may have been stamped out much earlier) when most of the moral depravities actually WERE occuring, most Christians didnt seem to think they were actually moral depravities, because they werent related to sex!

As for abortion, the no. of conceived babies that survive today (which includes aborted babies), is higher than it has ever been thanks to our increased understanding of the importance cleanliness & other medical advances. This is why the population stayed relatively static for many tens of thousands of years, & in the last 100 years there has been a population explosion.

Also in amcient times, especially in Israel due to the strict laws against adultery, in which a woman who had sex outside of marriage could be stoned to death, young women were forced to conceal the pregnancy, then go outside the town to a secluded place, where she would give birth & then leave the baby to die.

If there were complications during birth, the young woman would also die all alone. This was the affect of the stupidly harsh penalty for adultery, & an extremely cruel way for a new born child & mother to die. But probably less cruel than being stoned to death. And dont forget that, as well as the mother being stoned to death, the unborn child would also be getting stoned to death, a completely innocent party.
Perhaps you can post those questions in the apologetics sections. Did you get the answer you were looking for in your OP?
 
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Saramae

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You may not have been looking for my advice, since I am atheist....but here are my thoughts regarding your original post:

While your fiance's initial reaction is understandable, because she feels upset and hurt that your parents will not accept her, your parents' opinions on her should not affect whether or not you get married. Marriage should be the agreement between two individuals to pledge to live their previously separate lives together as one, until death. It's not something you should enter lightly into because a relationship has become serious or you want to make some kind of statement to the outside world. It should be between you two only.

That being said, there are other things you might be able to do to help ease the rift that has been created between your parents and your fiance. You can see if her parents will talk to yours about it. You can simply back off for a while and give them some time to process this news. Think about it from their point of view -- perhaps they feel betrayed, because they assumed your fiance was a female but have now found out she was born a male. Even though this decision has nothing to do with them, it can feel like deception when a revelation like this is suddenly made. Whether it is right of them to feel that way or not is irrelevant -- they can't control their feelings; only how they react.

Time can generally heal a lot of things. You can let your parents know you are very sorry they feel this way and that you would love to have them attend your wedding, but if they chose not to come, that is their choice. You'll be going through with it because you love your fiance very much, and you hope that eventually they are able to come around and celebrate with the two of you. Let them know that as long as they are civil to you and your fiance, they will always be welcome to visit, and the door is always open.

Then just leave it at that. You cannot make them accept something, but hopefully over time they will realize that a relationship with their son is more important than standing there and judging your fiance. I wish you the best of luck with this.

-------------------------------------------------

I will add the caveat, that you probably don't want to hear, that gender identity disorder is a disorder, and people who are unable to reconcile with an aspect of themselves should receive compassion and therapy to work through any issues they have. They should not be encouraged to take hormones which greatly increase risk of blood clots and cancer and/or mutilate their bodies to match how they feel. There is no evidence that hormonal therapy or plastic surgery improves the well-being and psychological health of transgender people in the long term. I hope your fiance is able to help for this.
 
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FireDragon76

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Hi everybody,

I grew up in a fairly strict Christian family. Around the age of 19, I started to doubt the religion I had been raised in, & now consider myself agnostic. This in itself caused a lot of problems with my parents, however, they have sort of accepted it, probably because they are hoping I will change my mind again later in life & return to Christianity.

At the age of 21, I met my current fiance, who I am very much in love with, & we are going to get married in 6 months time. When my family 1st met my fiance about 2 years ago, they had no problems with her & seemed very happy that we were together. They also seemed happy when we announced our engagement 6 months ago. My fiance is also from a Christian family, so I think they were relieved about that.

So whats changed? Well, my fiance was born with male genitals, but from an early age, she thinks as early as 4 years old, she started behaving & identifying as a girl. She is on hormone treatment, & as female as any other female I know, & I have never seen her as anything but female. 2 months ago we decided that we should tell my parents about her transition, as they had no idea before. Now my parents are convinced if I marry this girl I will be going straight to hell. They have said that they won't attend our wedding, & if I marry her they will disown me.

My fiance is very upset about this, & I don't know what to do. She thinks we should call off the wedding until my parents accept it, but I don't know if they ever will, & I don't think my parents should dictate who I marry.

My fiances own parents are Christian, but they accepted many years ago the reality that their son is now their daughter, & they are happy for our marriage.

Just looking for advice from the perspective of other Christians I guess.


Don't let your parents control you- you are a grown adult. They simply are not all that loving anyways if they want to continue to try to manipulate you into agreeing with them. Move on with your life.
 
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Godistruth1

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Hi everybody,

I grew up in a fairly strict Christian family. Around the age of 19, I started to doubt the religion I had been raised in, & now consider myself agnostic. This in itself caused a lot of problems with my parents, however, they have sort of accepted it, probably because they are hoping I will change my mind again later in life & return to Christianity.

At the age of 21, I met my current fiance, who I am very much in love with, & we are going to get married in 6 months time. When my family 1st met my fiance about 2 years ago, they had no problems with her & seemed very happy that we were together. They also seemed happy when we announced our engagement 6 months ago. My fiance is also from a Christian family, so I think they were relieved about that.

So whats changed? Well, my fiance was born with male genitals, but from an early age, she thinks as early as 4 years old, she started behaving & identifying as a girl. She is on hormone treatment, & as female as any other female I know, & I have never seen her as anything but female. 2 months ago we decided that we should tell my parents about her transition, as they had no idea before. Now my parents are convinced if I marry this girl I will be going straight to hell. They have said that they won't attend our wedding, & if I marry her they will disown me.

My fiance is very upset about this, & I don't know what to do. She thinks we should call off the wedding until my parents accept it, but I don't know if they ever will, & I don't think my parents should dictate who I marry.

My fiances own parents are Christian, but they accepted many years ago the reality that their son is now their daughter, & they are happy for our marriage.

Just looking for advice from the perspective of other Christians I guess.
If she was born with male genitals then she's not a she but he. It's he wanting to be she. It's a psychological issue not a male born a female.
 
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trophy33

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Hi everybody,

I grew up in a fairly strict Christian family. Around the age of 19, I started to doubt the religion I had been raised in, & now consider myself agnostic. This in itself caused a lot of problems with my parents, however, they have sort of accepted it, probably because they are hoping I will change my mind again later in life & return to Christianity.

At the age of 21, I met my current fiance, who I am very much in love with, & we are going to get married in 6 months time. When my family 1st met my fiance about 2 years ago, they had no problems with her & seemed very happy that we were together. They also seemed happy when we announced our engagement 6 months ago. My fiance is also from a Christian family, so I think they were relieved about that.

So whats changed? Well, my fiance was born with male genitals, but from an early age, she thinks as early as 4 years old, she started behaving & identifying as a girl. She is on hormone treatment, & as female as any other female I know, & I have never seen her as anything but female. 2 months ago we decided that we should tell my parents about her transition, as they had no idea before. Now my parents are convinced if I marry this girl I will be going straight to hell. They have said that they won't attend our wedding, & if I marry her they will disown me.

My fiance is very upset about this, & I don't know what to do. She thinks we should call off the wedding until my parents accept it, but I don't know if they ever will, & I don't think my parents should dictate who I marry.

My fiances own parents are Christian, but they accepted many years ago the reality that their son is now their daughter, & they are happy for our marriage.

Just looking for advice from the perspective of other Christians I guess.
Wow, thats complicated.

I think that your partner is basically a homosexual, but with even some other mental issues about identity.

Because it is obviously a very complicated situation, I would not advice such marriage.
 
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FireDragon76

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You sound deluded by your own sense of grandeur "My fellow christians" Do you think you are a reincarnation of Paul or something?

Paul made the claim that Christians no longer needed to follow the Jewish law. He also said that it was impossible to follow the law, despite the fact that there are Jews living today who still observe the law.

All you have to do is believe in the resuretion of christ or something similar. I dont remember the full gist of it, because it has been a while. And whenever anything is bought up in the old testament that christians dont like, they are always ready to remind everybody of the fact that the Jewish law no longer applies. Of course when they say that, they mean all laws except the one relating to homosexuality!

In the King James Version of the Bible the text reads:

For verily I say unto you, Till
heaven and earth pass, one jot or one
tittle shall in no wise pass from
the law, till all be fulfilled.

The World English Bible translates the passage as:

For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven
and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter
or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away
from the law, until all things are accomplished.

Has heaven & earth passed away?

That's an expression. It is not necessarily referring to the end of the world as you might understand it.
 
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FireDragon76

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That may be, but such arguments are utterly unconvincing to conservative Christians.

Conservative Christians do not have a monopoly on ideas, nor are their notions necessarily grounded in anything but traditionalism and cultural conservativism.

Everyone is welcome at my church and that's our policy. We do not shame people that are transsexual by calling a person who presents herself as a woman, a man. That's just uncivil and unkind. Quibble with metaphysics some place else other than with a stranger that you owe hospitality.
 
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