• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

My experience...Ken Ham and YEC.

ChetSinger

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2006
3,518
651
✟140,168.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
There are also scores of reasons why people can't come back from the dead. But Jesus did, and so, we hope, will we. The creation, however it happened, had a supernatural cause: the will of God. Our religion is a supernatural one, filled with creation, prophecy, miracles, angels, etc. Every time you pray you are engaging in a supernatural act that science says is fruitless.
 
Upvote 0

RickG

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 1, 2011
10,092
1,430
Georgia
✟128,873.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married

What has any of that have to do with what you quoted me saying?
 
Upvote 0

Split Rock

Conflation of Blathers
Nov 3, 2003
17,607
730
North Dakota
✟22,466.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single

So it was a miracle that God made the earth look much, much older than it really is??
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic
There are also scores of reasons why people can't come back from the dead. But Jesus did, and so, we hope, will we.

Jesus' resurrection didn't leave any empirical evidence that we can test in the modern age. We do have evidence in the modern age of how the Earth formed and how life changed. The two can't be compared.


The Bible describes God knitting a baby together in the mother's womb. We have very natural explanations for how embryos develop, and those explanations are backed by mountains of evidence.

Either the Bible is falsified by the scientific field of embryonic development, or God can act through nature. Your pick. The age of the Earth and evolution are hardly the only problem areas for a literal Bible.

Psalm 139:

12Even the darkness is not dark to You, And the night is as bright as the day. Darkness and light are alike to You. 13For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb. 14I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well.…
 
Reactions: Ada Lovelace
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic
Only that our religion flies in the face of convention at many turns.

Belief in the resurrection requires faith, but it does not require rejection of facts. YEC does require the rejection of facts. That's the difference. YEC requires God to create a fake history in the fields of astronomy, geology, and biology.
 
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,792
✟254,941.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Only that our religion flies in the face of convention at many turns.

I think what you really mean is, certain religious beliefs require one to reject evidence against the belief.

YEC, would certainly be the poster child for rejecting objective evidence, to hold onto a faith belief.
 
Upvote 0

ChetSinger

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2006
3,518
651
✟140,168.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
I think what you really mean is, certain religious beliefs require one to reject evidence against the belief.

YEC, would certainly be the poster child for rejecting objective evidence, to hold onto a faith belief.
Actually, the linchpin of Christianity is the resurrection of Christ. Christians have many different origins beliefs (YEC, OEC, TE, etc.), but faith in the physical resurrection of Christ is what makes us, well, Christians:

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. - Romans 10

And again, here:

In Christianity, the resurrection of Christ is the most important event in mankind's history: it healed the breach between God and Man.

This was a bit of a diversion, but there is plenty of observational evidence against belief in the resurrection: we don't see people rising from the dead.
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic
This was a bit of a diversion, but there is plenty of observational evidence against belief in the resurrection: we don't see people rising from the dead.

We don't have evidence from the supposed resurrection, so we can't say one way or another. However, we do have evidence from Earth's past that tells us how old it is, how life evolved, etc. That's the difference.
 
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,792
✟254,941.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others

I agree the resurrection is the key to Christian belief.

I also agree that there is no objective verifiable evidence the resurrection took place and is why, NT historians don't see the event as historically credible, from a historical method standpoint.

So, one must believe it on faith.
 
Upvote 0

ChetSinger

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2006
3,518
651
✟140,168.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Actually, I think the primary reason people reject the resurrection is scientific, not historical. I think if we occasionally saw people rising from the dead after three days we'd have no problem believing that the Jesus of the NT had also done so. Imo, anyway.
 
Upvote 0

TLK Valentine

I've already read the books you want burned.
Apr 15, 2012
64,493
30,322
Behind the 8-ball, but ahead of the curve.
✟541,572.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single

Even though there is more than enough textual evidence to indicate that the Crucifixion/Resurrection accounts bite their own tails more times than an objective reader could be comfortable with, that evidence is circumstantial -- and off topic.

The evidence for the age of the Earth, however, is (no pun intended) rock solid and can only be explained away with a sackful of "miracles" engineered by a God who intended to deceive us -- anyone want to believe in that?
 
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,792
✟254,941.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others

If we had experiences with people rising from the dead, we could then study those circumstances and likely understand them better.

And regarding history, the vast majority of NT historians do not validate the claim of the resurrection as historically credible, because historians determine what the most likely explanation of any event in the past is and they search for various pieces of evidence to determine credibility. Since a miracle (resurrection) by definition is the least likely explanation, it can not be verified by adhering to the historical method.

Again, which is why it must be taken on faith.
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic
Actually, I think the primary reason people reject the resurrection is scientific, not historical.

Then I am not your usual person. I tentatively reject the resurrection because there is no evidence for it. I don't cite the absence of other people resurrecting as evidence against Jesus' resurrection.

I think if we occasionally saw people rising from the dead after three days we'd have no problem believing that the Jesus of the NT had also done so. Imo, anyway.

We believe that it was possible that Jesus rode a mule into Jerusalem since people did that all of the time. That doesn't mean he was the Son of God.
 
Upvote 0

EternalDragon

Counselor
Jul 31, 2013
5,757
26
✟28,767.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican

Depends on what you define evolution as. No one has any problem accepting that species change and adapt to differing conditions through natural selection. We can observe that.

What you have with evolution is a bunch of what if's and maybe this or that happened, thrown into the mix and accepted as fact. Evolution is observable fact mixed in with a bunch of assumptions about the past which is not observed.

So the conflict really is with man's word or God's word. Which one do you trust more? Or do you not even believe the bible when it says God guided men to write His words?
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,143
Visit site
✟98,025.00
Faith
Agnostic
What you have with evolution is a bunch of what if's and maybe this or that happened, thrown into the mix and accepted as fact. Evolution is observable fact mixed in with a bunch of assumptions about the past which is not observed.

This is the type of nonsense that Ryukil is talking about. Creationists continually misrepresent the science as you do. You won't deal with the evidence, and keep making false allegations of using assumptions.
 
Upvote 0

RickG

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 1, 2011
10,092
1,430
Georgia
✟128,873.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
This is the type of nonsense that Ryukil is talking about. Creationists continually misrepresent the science as you do. You won't deal with the evidence, and keep making false allegations of using assumptions.

Ditto.
 
Upvote 0

EternalDragon

Counselor
Jul 31, 2013
5,757
26
✟28,767.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
This is the type of nonsense that Ryukil is talking about. Creationists continually misrepresent the science as you do. You won't deal with the evidence, and keep making false allegations of using assumptions.

I'm not misrepresenting science in any way. It's already misrepresented.
 
Upvote 0

EternalDragon

Counselor
Jul 31, 2013
5,757
26
✟28,767.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
So it was a miracle that God made the earth look much, much older than it really is??

The earth was created mature just as everything else was from stars to plants to Adam and Eve. There is no miracle or mystery to it.
 
Upvote 0