My experience...Ken Ham and YEC.

[Dizredux]

So are you going to leave the faith because Ron Wyatt said he discovered Sodom and Gomorrah, when he probably didn't? Or because you can probably collect a barrel's worth of "nails from the cross" from various European towns?

No my issue is with people who think along with Martin Luther

What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church...a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them.

It is a well known phenomena also known as "Lying for Christ" and is very common with many YECers. Hovind and Baugh are good examples of this.

The problem I had was that if such dishonesty is a part of Christianity, did I really want anything to do with it?

I have no problems with anyone being YEC when it is part of their religious beliefs but when they lie to people and present their dishonesty as fact that I have issues.

This is shown as one of the main reasons young people leave the church.

Here is a good discussion on this based on research by the Barna Group
https://www.barna.org/teens-next-gen-articles/528-six-reasons-young-christians-leave-church

It is a serious issue make no doubt about it. According to a Baptist survey done in 2002 Family Life Council says it's time to bring family back to life -

88 percent of the children raised in evangelical homes leave church at the age of 18, never to return.

Dizredux

 

[RickG]

I haven't been there for a while, but think they do, too. Neither of us are abandoning the faith because of him, are we?

No, but I have never questioned my faith until I encountered YEC's.

 

[ChetSinger]

When I can be shown to be wrong, I have no problem openly acknowledging that. However, things I post and describe problems with here, concern my actual academic background and experience. I tend to say out of discussions for which I have little experience or understanding. Like many of the YEC's here, I am not an example of Dunning-Kruger.

As previously mentioned, I have no problem with anyone's religious beliefs. I do have a problem with the misrepresentation of specific physical sciences with which I am more than familiar.

OK. I'll never defend dishonesty for the faith, so we're in agreement on that.

 

[ChetSinger]

No my issue is with people who think along with Martin Luther It is a well known phenomena also known as "Lying for Christ" and is very common with many YECers. Hovind and Baugh are good examples of this.

The problem I had was that if such dishonesty is a part of Christianity, did I really want anything to do with it?

I have no problems with anyone being YEC when it is part of their religious beliefs but when they lie to people and present their dishonesty as fact that I have issues.

This is shown as one of the main reasons young people leave the church.

Here is a good discussion on this based on research by the Barna Group
https://www.barna.org/teens-next-gen-articles/528-six-reasons-young-christians-leave-church

It is a serious issue make no doubt about it. According to a Baptist survey done in 2002 Family Life Council says it's time to bring family back to life -
Dizredux

OK. As I told RickG, I'll never defend dishonesty for the faith.

 

[Dizredux]

OK. As I told RickG, I'll never defend dishonesty for the faith.

Good, in my opinion, honesty is an integral part of bringing people to Christ if it is going to stick. Note the Baptist figures.

Dizredux

 

[RickG]

OK. I'll never defend dishonesty for the faith, so we're in agreement on that.

I applaud that, but why does the greater Christian community not speak out against it. Seriously, organizations such as AiG, etc., don't present a different "interpretation" of science. It is out right deception and misrepresentation.

 

[ChetSinger]

I applauder that, but why does the greater Christian community not speak out against it. Seriously, organizations such as AiG, etc., don't present a different "interpretation" of science. It is out right deception and misrepresentation.

Christianity is a big tent, and there's a lot more YEC out there than just AIG. I myself am a YEC, at least pretty much, anyway; it's where I come to when I read the scriptures and look around the creation. And I've got a degree in Physics, to boot. So go figure...

 

[Papias]

Chetsinger wrote:

Originally Posted by ChetSinger

OK. I'll never defend dishonesty for the faith, so we're in agreement on that.

Great to see!

From what I've seen here and elsewhere, there isn't much left to YEC after the outright lies are removed.

I'd hate to be in the position of defending YEC after saying I wouldn't support lying.

In Christ-

Papias
​

 

[Paulos23]

This whole YEC thing is driving me right to becoming an out-and-out atheist/antitheist.

I would recommend you don't. It sounds like you are on an emotional ride and that is never a good time to reject your beliefs. It would be far more logical to leave that church and then work through if you beleive the rest of your religion. I know plenty of friend who have become unchurched Christians because of things like this in their church.

 

[CabVet]

I would recommend you don't. It sounds like you are on an emotional ride and that is never a good time to reject your beliefs. It would be far more logical to leave that church and then work through if you beleive the rest of your religion. I know plenty of friend who have become unchurched Christians because of things like this in their church.

Exactly, or just find a church where they are not YEC (or don't mention it). There are plenty of them out there, I even go to one from time to time for the friendships!

 

[TLK Valentine]

This whole YEC thing is driving me right to becoming an out-and-out atheist/antitheist.

I, for one, wouldn't want to see that happen. All you have to do is realize that your faith in God does not have to be saddled with a mountain of pseudoscientific gibberish.

You can be a Christian and accept the evidence for evolution; why not?

 

[TLK Valentine]

What about Spiritual dishonesty? How do you feel about that?

You seem to be pretty good at pointing your finger at other Christians and their beliefs and calling it intellectual dishonesty while standing in the world claiming God and dismissing some pretty important elements of the faith.

YEC is hardly an important element of the faith.

 

[keith99]

I would recommend you don't. It sounds like you are on an emotional ride and that is never a good time to reject your beliefs. It would be far more logical to leave that church and then work through if you beleive the rest of your religion. I know plenty of friend who have become unchurched Christians because of things like this in their church.

What kind of an atheist are you? Not closing the deal when you have a chance!

Oh yea, one like me, one who cares about the person.

 

[Aureus]

And why are you discussing your crisis of faith in a forum populated by people who are eager to destroy it?

Has anyone responded to this thread with anything but evidence of Christians accepting Science when it comes to Evolution and the origins of the earth or with words of caution to not abandon his faith in a state of emotional turmoil? Where are these people eager to bring his faith down? Hiding?

 

[CabVet]

Has anyone responded to this thread with anything but evidence of Christians accepting Science when it comes to Evolution and the origins of the earth or with words of caution to not abandon his faith in a state of emotional turmoil? Where are these people eager to bring his faith down? Hiding?

Hiding in creationists minds.

 

[RickG]

Christianity is a big tent, and there's a lot more YEC out there than just AIG. I myself am a YEC, at least pretty much, anyway; it's where I come to when I read the scriptures and look around the creation. And I've got a degree in Physics, to boot. So go figure...

The thing that disturbs me most about YEC is YE part of it. And it is not about believing the earth may only be 6 k - 10 k. It's the out right lying they perform to justify that belief. In other words, for the wrong reasons. There are literally scores or ways to show the earth is older than that.

 

[Andy 998]

And why are you discussing your crisis of faith in a forum populated by people who are eager to destroy it?

No one want's to destroy your faith all we ask is that you think about why you believe what you do,
if you thinking about your faith destroys your faith then it wasn't worth having in the first place was it?

 

[Loudmouth]

This whole YEC thing is driving me right to becoming an out-and-out atheist/antitheist.

As an atheist, my advice to you is to not give up on christianity solely because of creationism. That would be like rejecting Aesop's Fables because animals don't talk. If you don't believe other tenets of christianity then that is completely understandable, but rejecting christianity because of something that you aren't required to believe in seems like a poor decision.

 

[Paulos23]

What kind of an atheist are you? Not closing the deal when you have a chance!

Oh yea, one like me, one who cares about the person.

Try too. Some days people make it hard to do so.

 

[Oncedeceived]

YEC is hardly an important element of the faith.

That was not what I was referring to.