My Detour Challenge

[Strathos]

Keep in mind I'm not against displaying the Ten Commandments in such places... I just don't see why it's such a big deal. To me it really doesn't make a difference either way.

 

[AV1611VET]

Keep in mind I'm not against displaying the Ten Commandments in such places... I just don't see why it's such a big deal.

The Boss ... (not THE Boss ... their Boss) ... doesn't like it; so he orders his disciples to arc & spark.

To me it really doesn't make a difference either way.

You're a good man.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

(Actually, I'm guilty of apathy as well ... in many matters.)

 

[Strathos]

How is it evil if a monument is or is not displayed publicly?

It's not like they're trying to remove crosses from churches or something.

 

[AV1611VET]

How is it evil if a monument is or is not displayed publicly?

It's not like they're trying to remove crosses from churches or something.

Let me remind you who this thread is predominantly aimed at:

If you're so afraid the Ten Commandments will end up evangelizing someone and turning them into a God-fearing, born again, love thy neighbor Bible believing Christian, how is it that you weren't changed?

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Hi there!

So I got to thinking.

If you're one of those who arc & spark that the Ten Commandments are on the courthouse lawn, why not lobby to have traffic routed around the courthouse, rather than have the Ten Commandments locked in the cellar or something?

Given that there is no established religion in your country why should one religion be given precedence over any other? Would you object if others asked to have verses from Quran/Book of Mormon/Dharmmapada on the lawn instead?

 

[Gene2memE]

Hi there!

So I got to thinking.

If you're one of those who arc & spark that the Ten Commandments are on the courthouse lawn, why not lobby to have traffic routed around the courthouse, rather than have the Ten Commandments locked in the cellar or something?

Why not just have it removed and placed on private property, where it wouldn't be in violation of part of the US constitution?

And if you disagree and think this is a stupid proposition, then let me ask you this:

If you're so afraid the Ten Commandments will end up evangelizing someone and turning them into a God-fearing, born again, love thy neighbor Bible believing Christian, how is it that you weren't changed?

This is not about whether people's opinions or beliefs are changed or not. This is about whether it could be inferred that the US Government is explicitly favouring and/or endorsing a particular set of religious instructions - given that the US constitution explicitly forbids the government from legislating for/against establishing a religion.

And furthermore, do you still drive past the courthouse, knowing those commandments are still there?

If so, why aren't you walking your talk and detouring around the affected area?

Would Clark Kent keep walking past the Kryptonite lab day after day?

These situations are not analogous, even in the slightest.

This in not about the physical presence of a 10 Commandments monument, or any other religious statuary. This is about whether putting such an object on public lands (particularly lands of one of the government branches that creates/enforces laws) amounts to State endorsement of those particular religious views.

The 10 Commandments contain multiple explicit religious orders which have no secular puropse - I am the one true god and you shall have no other gods; Keep the Sabbath holy; No blasphemy; Make no idols of other gods.

If a court followed these religious commandments, it could preclude giving a US citizen of non-Christian beliefs fair and equal treatment under the law.

 

[VirOptimus]

Why is this posted in the science forums?

 

[Strathos]

Let me remind you who this thread is predominantly aimed at:

Well apparently you have the same attitude towards those who vehemently want to remove these monuments as you do towards those who honestly don't care either way.

 

[Strathos]

The 10 Commandments contain multiple explicit religious orders which have no secular puropse - I am the one true god and you shall have no other gods; Keep the Sabbath holy; No blasphemy; Make no idols of other gods.

If a court followed these religious commandments, it could preclude giving a US citizen of non-Christian beliefs fair and equal treatment under the law.

Because a statue outside automatically means that the court has to do what it says...

 

[Gene2memE]

Because a statue outside automatically means that the court has to do what it says...

Did is say that? Notice the 'If' at the start of the second paragraph. Nice strawmanning.

Looking at court cases where 10 commandment monuments were ordered removed, you've got this from Oklahoma:

In the Oklahoma Constitution, which states: “No public money or property shall ever be appropriated, applied, donated, or used, directly or indirectly, for the use, benefit, or support of any sect, church, denomination, or system of religion . . . .” In a per curiam decision, the court held that a Ten Commandments display operates by definition for “the use, benefit, or support” of a system of religion"
​

Similar cases in Alabama, Texas, Kansas and New Mexico all ruled for the removal of similar monuments on the grounds that they violated the 1st Amendment to the US constitution.

When monuments have not been removed, its typically been on grounds that they are 'historical', and in one case that permanent monuments in public parks are not subject to the free speech analysis that applies to speeches and leaflets in public forums. Basically, that monuments outside of public forums are "government speech" and thus the government can decide what goes up, or comes down.

 

[Strathos]

Did is say that? Notice the 'If' at the start of the second paragraph. Nice strawmanning.

Looking at court cases where 10 commandment monuments were ordered removed, you've got this from Oklahoma:

In the Oklahoma Constitution, which states: “No public money or property shall ever be appropriated, applied, donated, or used, directly or indirectly, for the use, benefit, or support of any sect, church, denomination, or system of religion . . . .” In a per curiam decision, the court held that a Ten Commandments display operates by definition for “the use, benefit, or support” of a system of religion"
​

Similar cases in Alabama, Texas, Kansas and New Mexico all ruled for the removal of similar monuments on the grounds that they violated the 1st Amendment to the US constitution.

When monuments have not been removed, its typically been on grounds that they are 'historical', and in one case that permanent monuments in public parks are not subject to the free speech analysis that applies to speeches and leaflets in public forums. Basically, that monuments outside of public forums are "government speech" and thus the government can decide what goes up, or comes down.

Why do you care so much? I honestly don't see the point.

 

[lesliedellow]

Members of other religions tend not to be offended by Christian symbols in the uk, but the "enlightened" ones do not let the opportunity pass to be offended on their behalf.

 

[HitchSlap]

A courthouse is a hub of activity.

People go there.

From janitors to judges ... lawyers to criminals ... and educated to born again.

What better place to post the Ten Commandments?

Should all religions be allowed to list their holy mantras, or just the white supremacist types?

 

[Strathos]

Should all religions be allowed to list their holy mantras, or just the white supremacist types?

Where are you getting white supremacism from?

 

[HitchSlap]

Where are you getting white supremacism from?

Because white supremacists largely promote racism using the Kor... Oh, wait. NVM.

 

[AV1611VET]

Should all religions be allowed to list their holy mantras, or just the white supremacist types?

No.

 

[AV1611VET]

Because white supremacists largely promote racism using the Kor... Oh, wait. NVM.

Don't you mean Darwin's, The Preservation of Favoured Races?

 

[HitchSlap]

Don't you mean Darwin's, The Preservation of Favoured Races?

I almost forgot about your infatuation with Darwin.

Legit' bro-crush.

 

[HitchSlap]

No.

I didn't think so.

 

[VirOptimus]

Don't you mean Darwin's, The Preservation of Favoured Races?

Thats a very disenginius post. Childish too.