My church just changed their stance on homosexuals. What do I do?

[Albion]

Why are you so afraid of being called names?

I'm not afraid of that and didn't say anything about being afraid. It was a simple statement of fact.

 

[CCHIPSS]

A gay person's sin are 100% forgiven, if they accept Jesus are their saviour.

We straight men cannot help but have lustful thoughts when we look at certain women. And we are forgiven.

But there are limits. For example gay marriages should not be hosted inside churches. Christians are free to celebrate a gay marriage with them outside of church. But a church cannot celebrate a sin.

 

[Albion]

A gay person's sin are 100% forgiven, if they accept Jesus are their saviour.

We straight men cannot help but have lustful thoughts when we look at certain women. And we are forgiven.

But there are limits. For example gay marriages should not be hosted inside churches. Christians are free to celebrate a gay marriage with them outside of church. But a church cannot celebrate a sin.

I like that you've gone to the heart of the matter. Gay activists always try to make Christians "accept and celebrate diversity" etc. etc., which means embracing the sin as well as the sinner.

It's that which the churches cannot do, but in the propaganda war, the churches often allow themselves to be pictured as hating people for being different in ways that don't matter.

 

[Pastor Don]

A gay person's sin are 100% forgiven, if they accept Jesus are their saviour.

We straight men cannot help but have lustful thoughts when we look at certain women. And we are forgiven.

But there are limits. For example gay marriages should not be hosted inside churches. Christians are free to celebrate a gay marriage with them outside of church. But a church cannot celebrate a sin.

I do not believe that it is ever 'ok' to celebrate sin. What we are essentially saying here is that it would be equally ok for us to walk into a bar and celebrate an alcoholics latest drinking binge, or to walk into a drug house and celebrate a drug deal or to look at a wife beater and say 'good job you two, way to go with your relationship development."

Secondly, we are given forgiveness but are expected to repent from our sinfulness and then seek to walk in the way of Christ. This would imply that though we may fall victim to our lusts in the beginning of our relationship with Christ, we should be seeking ways to 1) control ourselves better by seeking God's guidance in this matter 2) keeping ourselves away from being tempted. We know where we are weak and we should seek to stay away from those areas. 3) Begin to see ourselves as God's children instead of animals. We have the ability to choose whether or not we will react to temptation and whether or not we will sin. Seeing a woman that is attractive to us is not sinful. We can walk away and thank the Lord for giving us His strength. Fantasizing about that woman or intentionally flirting with her is another issue entirely.

I do not think we get forgiven for sin that we do not honestly want to repent from. If you lust after women all the time and ask God to forgive you, then you are telling God you want to change.... If you are not willing to change, then you are not repenting and that sin is not forgiven because you did not really come to God with it in your heart in the first place...

Peace

 

[Upper Cut]

As I see it, it boils down to two choices:

#1) If you feel you have a good chance of leading the fight to change the issue, then I would probably stay if I was otherwise happy

#2) You may have to consider finding a new church home, However, it is as likely as not you will find something that in time will wear you down as well.

 

[Job8]

Recently my church announced that they apologize for their anti gay stance, and have changed official doctrine to recognize that homosexuals are born that way. And that as long as homosexuals refrain from sexual relations, they can hold many church positions and have full fellowship. This has probably always been policy, and I understand that we can't block people from worshiping that want to. But it's the born that way change that bothers me.

While homosexuals are a decided minority, they have been extremely vocal and hostile towards those who oppose a public recognition of their perversions as being acceptable. Almost all the politicians and judges have caved in to their demands. Since your church (and probably denomination) have caved in, that does not leave you with any alternatives other than to walk away. It will certainly be painful, but that's the price one pays for standing for what is right.

 

[pdudgeon]

yep, I've been in that situation and left when it was obvious that the change in direction of a church in question was going away from what God teaches us.
and i have not been alone in that decision.
unbeknownst to me at the time, many other Christians were also being called to make that same decision.

in other words my beliefs had remained true and faithful, and had not changed.
but the practices of the church where i held my membership had changed direction.
it was actually the church that changed it's course of direction and left me behind.
They chose to follow a different way.

so yes, it sounds to me like it is time to assess your situation,
come to grips with what has happened,
sever existing ties and leave that church behind you,
and go to where God leads you.

Certainly you won't be alone.
that is a journey that has been taken many times in both the OT and NT.

 

[ken777]

A church being more accepting of homosexuals while still maintaining strong opposition to accepting homosexual behaviour is not a bad change of direction. SSAD (same sex attraction disorder) should not preclude a person from being a member of your church, or even holding an office.

Twin studies show that ssa is an interaction between biology and environment; it is not solely choice. But genes cannot ever be an excuse for sin. A celibate person with SSAD is no more a sinner than any other person in your church.

 

[Albion]

A church being more accepting of homosexuals while still maintaining strong opposition to accepting homosexual behaviour is not a bad change of direction. SSAD (same sex attraction disorder) should not preclude a person from being a member of your church, or even holding an office.

Twin studies show that ssa is an interaction between biology and environment; it is not solely choice. But genes cannot ever be an excuse for sin. A celibate person with SSAD is no more a sinner than any other person in your church.

You are correct, but the OP writer sees signs of his church preparing the congregation for more extensive changes in its stance. He's not willing to "jump ship" yet, so I don't think we can conclude that he's overreacted. Not yet.

 

[pdudgeon]

As I see it, it boils down to two choices:

#1) If you feel you have a good chance of leading the fight to change the issue, then I would probably stay if I was otherwise happy

#2) You may have to consider finding a new church home, However, it is as likely as not you will find something that in time will wear you down as well.

a few points here....
1. this person has to be in a position of authority in order to change the church's position. sitting in the peanut gallery does not give one the authority to do so.
2. beware of becomming another Martin Luther in your zeal.
3. probably best to consider a quiet move out the back door rather than to risk fracturing the church.
especially if you don't also have the skill and the calling (both are equally important) to repair those fractures.

 

[Janice Orbi]

Its cool you don't agree with me, you don't have too. I was merely explaining my views on the subject. One question though, if a person is not born with that tendency/desire, then when in your opinion do they learn it?

Why are we making excuses for sin, regardless if you think you were born that way, we were all born with sin that is why Jesus shed his blood. To continue to live in that sin is not repentance at all. Where is the Bible does it say it is okay to continue sinning. Yes we all sin, that is where repentance comes from the desire in your heart should be to live a life pleasing to God.

 

[Janice Orbi]

Well first you said that rebellion to God causes homosexuality and now it's a whole bunch of things. I'm not going to get into symantics with you because I'm not a therapist or a doctor that studies this stuff, I just know what the Bible says on the subject, in a small part. I don't claim to know everything about the subject because it is a vast one. I appreciate your comments though but I have said my piece and will bow out. God bless.

I believe sin originated with Adam & Eve, so now it is passed on to everyone no one is without sin, and yes it was sin that caused all of these problems with Homosexuals, Diseases, liars, mental issues all of them. Sin is passed down from the beginning of time, I am not saying it is the individual who suffers from the consequence of sin was there fault. However that being said Christian should not live in sin because would be against God.

 

[Janice Orbi]

As more messages get posted here I get more sick to my stomach. How can we claim to have God's love in our heart if we keep the lost, no matter who they are, at a sticks distance at all times? Jesus Himself said He was called a friend of sinners and that He came for the lost not the righteous. Homosexuals are just one more class of lost individuals that need Him, much like a person who merely is dishonest. You don't let your children not play with their friends because they lie do you? We all, myself included, need to be loving towards those who need the Lord and ask Him for guidance and wisdom and love in dealing with them. Not suiting up in our anti-chemical suits everytime one comes around.

Who has said to do that, yes you are to love the sinners but not the sin. It is difficult to do at times because how do you know if you are not sending them the wrong message that living in sin is okay. Where do we draw the line. I hope someone can answer this question.

 

[Janice Orbi]

It's not exactly that simple. Look at how cpnservative the WBC is and their actions. I read and agree with what tigger said on the first page. The fact is as Christians we should be accepting of the fact that people are gay just like we accept that every person in church has sinned whether it be lieing or lustful thoughts. Christians need to be a lot less judgemental towards gays as they should not be held in worse opinions that you because you have sinned (unless you're Jesus). A lot of people don't realise lust towards women is as bad as lust towards other men in Gods eyes assuming he exists (in my beliefs). I used to be pretty conservative on the gay marriage issue until I saw a Missouri pastor give his opinion. The bible first and foremost preaches to love God thru Jesus but the first two commandments it teaches are to not be judgemental and to love your neighbour as yourself, not look down on them cos they're gay or theyve cheated on their wives because why shouldn't Jesus then look down on you? I haven't heard of huge rallies to ban pre marital sex? I know it's not going to happen and it shouldn't because as equal rights we should have our own choice whether it be religion or celibacy.I may not agree with what people do with their equal rights but look at the middle east Muslim areas, women are treated dis respectfully and religion is forced on people. As a Christian you shouldn't be forcing your beliefs on people just as Gay people should force their beliefs that you should be gay or whatever the case....instead of stopping and crossing the street from a person cos he/she is gay how about talking to them about and telling them you believe in the word of Jesus Christ and explain your beliefs and let them explain their preferences to you, that person could become your best friend and you never know they may come to know the Lord because of you. You could do a lot more for Jesus regarding the issue of gay people by accepting them as what they are, humans than by avoiding them and praying to God you never come in contact with them. Sorry for the long post and God Bless you

Edit: just retread this and this isn't a personal attack...just speaking in general..

I'd also like to add that I am still against gay marriage but not decided on THE RIGHT for gay marriage. I pray that the Lord will give me discernment and that I agree people should rebuke Gay acts just as I believe people should rebuke looking at a woman which Im Pretty sure most of you have done.

So you are saying that we are to accept sin in our lives, yes we are to love 1st, but not love the sin, I do agree that we should allow them to attend our church and pray for them, but not become members are say that is is okay to be homosexual.

 

[Janice Orbi]

Firstly, welcome to the forums.

One thing that needs to be made clear, is that blanket statements can't be used when talking about sexuality. From what I understand, sexual preferences can be the result of different things coming together. Here are the main two;

Physiological development - within the womb

Are People Born Gay? Genetics and Homosexuality

Biology and sexual orientation - Wikipedia

Environmental Factors - how a child is raised, what they're exposed to (trauma/abuse - sexual abuse including sexism, parental neglect or abuse either to their children or spouse, abuse or neglect from someone of respect - teachers, head of church etc. - and lack of equal interaction between girls and boys/women and men).

Environment and sexual orientation - Wikipedia

Homosexual Behavior Largely Shaped By Genetics And Random Environmental Factors

Yes, people can be born with pre propositions that could result in homosexuality (this is not the same as being born 'gay', rather it means in the right environment a person's sexual development could result in homosexual preferences). However, whether someone chooses to live in the homosexual lifestyle or not, is a choice.

It still is a choice and it still does not make it sin regardless of how you look at it. Sin is sin we can not change that. Because of sin passed down this is the repercussion of sin from the beginning of time

 

[Janice Orbi]

Do you struggle with lust or gluttony or know someone who is? Unfortunately, it's said that whenever there is a Christian conference at hotels, that inappropriate content movie rentals go up. So, are we as conservative Christians better at not sinning or better hiding it? There are quite a few brothers and sisters and Christ who struggle with the sin, but you would never know it unless you were in the accountability group.

You are going down a slippery slope. Paul had a thorn in his flesh but was still a Christian. We do not know exactly what the thorn was, but it could have been some secret sin.

Yes you are right some Christians hide their sin better than others but we can not call them on it if it is hidden to openly approve of it is a different situation all together. I believe that we should allow the to come to our church because we are to love the sinner but not the sin, however I do not believe we should allow them to join the church if they profess to be homosexual and not willing to repent from it. We should preach about sin and how Jesus came to save us from it.

 

[Dave G.]

One pastor I heard got it right, " homosexuals are welcome as long as when they come in holding hands but leave going out separate doors". The point being they are welcome but if they are going to remain practicing sin then they have to be cut loose. The metaphor indicates they separated.

 

[Rubricnigel]

Yes you are right some Christians hide their sin better than others but we can not call them on it if it is hidden to openly approve of it is a different situation all together. I believe that we should allow the to come to our church because we are to love the sinner but not the sin, however I do not believe we should allow them to join the church if they profess to be homosexual and not willing to repent from it. We should preach about sin and how Jesus came to save us from it.

Church is a hospital for sinners. Some want us to openly accept sin, or turn our eyes from it. We must welcome the sinner, help them better themselves. Jesus never told anyone, "Its ok to sin, do what you want".

I feel bad that i hear all the time about churches bowing to political pressure to allow sin. I have a link here that says some more from a very smart priest

The Homosexual Christian

 

[The Gryphon]

I can only say my own stance and that is G_d loves the sinner but hates the sin and no sin can enter into His presence. So to me no actively practicing homosexual can enter into the kingdom of heaven. I have stated it here in threads but a very dear teacher used to say. You can't stop birds from flying over your head but you can stop them from making nests in your hair. Everyone can be tempted by the Evil One according to their weaknesses however if you resist him in the name of the Lord and dwell in G_d's word the Evil One, he will flee you.