My church just changed their stance on homosexuals. What do I do?

[AzureBlue]

This is why I'm never going to have kids anyways, what for? the world will get worse eventually and they will suffer, get away from that church intermediately...

 

[aggiefan47]

find another church

 

[J0SHUA]

I think you should talk your wife into switching churches

 

[1Feather]

Christianity teaches we are all born that way. Born sinners. Transgressors of right behavior, God's will and law.

We are not to be enabled in remaining so. We're to be ministered to, redeemed,sincerely repentant and reborn to a life where we cast off the worldly ego and attach ourselves to the spirit.

A dear friend of ours, and just before she was taken from us suddenly, invited us to her church. She thought her medications were causing her to mishear the minister in some of his teachings of late and she wanted two people she trusted who were not of that church and would then feel reluctant to critique the spiritual leader to sit in and judge for themselves.

She wasn't mishearing a thing. His doctrine was one of extraordinary liberal teachings. To the point that he announced on our one and only visit that the board had decided to permit gay marriages in the church amid members and non now that gay marriage was made legal in the State. He saw that as a sign from God and the board thought they were following God's appointment.

My thought is if you can not in your heart remain in a church wherein the teachings feel wrong, leave!
Because that is God's instruction to you, his warning, that you are right and the doctrine you're encountering is not.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"changed official doctrine to recognize that homosexuals are born that way."

This gets a little complex, but I'd hesitate to support the 'ol "Homosexuality is always a willful choice" stance.

The FACT is that Chromosomal disorders DO exist, and ARE known medically. And what we'd call "Flamers" ARE "Born that way" - it's called "Kleinfelter Syndrome" - males with an extra "X" chromasome in some percentage of their makeup. Extreme cases of Kleinfelters are a-sexual, in fact, but would naturally find themselves more acceptable to the gay community that among Straights - who WILL Judge them as gay because of their appearance/mannerisms.

You need to do some research into "Gender ambiguity" which affect a surprisingly large percentage of live births, from minor cases, to extreme ones where it's literally impossible to identify the sex of the baby without chromosomal examination.

AND, of course, there's the old "Super SIN" foolishness that seeks to make Homosexual behavior a MUCH WORSE behavior that Adultry, or Heterosexual Promiscuity, which is, in all likelyhood more rampant within the church that Homosexual issues. But it's "Winked at" (relatively) because it's supposedly "Normal" whereas Homosexuality supposedly isn't. But the simple FACT is that both issues fall under the heading of "Sexual SIN", and ALL SIN (Sexual or otherwise) is a problem for the individuals involved to deal with.

 

[Albion]

Still in all, when a church starts using that line, it's a danger sign because that is one of the leading claims made by gay activists, i.e. "God made me this way, so who are we/you to find fault?"

"changed official doctrine to recognize that homosexuals are born that way."

This gets a little complex, but I'd hesitate to support the 'ol "Homosexuality is always a willful choice" stance.

The FACT is that Chromosomal disorders DO exist, and ARE known medically. And what we'd call "Flamers" ARE "Born that way" - it's called "Kleinfelter Syndrome" - males with an extra "X" chromasome in some percentage of their makeup. Extreme cases of Kleinfelters are a-sexual, in fact, but would naturally find themselves mor acceptable to the gay community that among Straights - who WILL Judge them as gay because of their appearence.

You need to do some research into "Gender ambiguity" which affect a surprisingly large percentage of live births, from minor cases, to extreme ones where it's literally impossible to identify the sex of the baby without chromosomal examination.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"one of the leading claims - etc."

Well - YOU can base your doctrine on the claims of "Special interest Groups" if you please.

But that, of course has absolutely NOTHING to do with the REAL question, which is:

IS HOMOSEXUALITY a "naturally occurring Physical/Emotional/Mental condition in humans???

Whether it IS, or isn't - the Church needs to adress the issue PROPERLY, since the SIN issue ISN'T "Being Homosexual" - it's performing homosexual physical activities.

The proper message to the "gay community" is that regardless of whether Same Sex physical activities are "Normal for y'all" or not - They are SINFUL ACTIVITIES that should be avoided.

SImple as that.

What NORMAL for humanity is to be "AT ENMITY" with God in everything, since we are BASICALLY SINFUL by nature. Acting "According to our sinful nature" is the LAST thing we should generally do.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"What church in its right mind would allow a sinner to be a member of the church."

ALL of them, of course. None of us are anything more than cleaned up human garbage that Jesus Died for. If You're a member of a church, and YOU sin (like we all do), then your question is answered.

 

[Albion]

"one of the leading claims - etc."

Well - YOU can base your doctrine on the claims of "Special interest Groups" if you please.

But that, of course has absolutely NOTHING to do with the REAL question, which is:

IS HOMOSEXUALITY a "naturally occurring Physical/Emotional/Mental condition in humans???

That is not the issue raised in the OP, even if the genetics of the matter holds some special interest for you. What was presented to us was the picture of a church that seemed to be getting ready to change its policies on gays...and the tell-talk terminology that was coming from the pulpit--jargon that is taken right from the gay lobby's playbook.

It might be technically correct...or not...but that isn't the issue. The issue is the direction of the church and what our friend should do about it.

Whether it IS, or isn't - the Church needs to adress the issue PROPERLY, since the SIN issue ISN'T "Being Homosexual" - it's performing homosexual physical activities.

You're fighting an entirely different battle there. Most people know the point you are making, and it doesn't do much for the inquirer who has good reason to think his church is greasing the skids for a change in its policies regarding towards homosexuality.

The proper message to the "gay community"

The "message to the 'gay community' is not the concern here. You are just editorializing at the expense of the person who has good reason to think that his church is about to abandon its traditional position with regard to this particular issue.

Read the title of this thread, Bob. THAT's the issue we've been presented with, not your own musings about what causes homosexuality or how to relate to homosexuals in the church.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"The issue is the direction of the church and what our friend should do about it."

And since there's in all likelyhood NOTHING significant that he can "Do about it" beyond giving his opinion to whomever asks, then he has TWO REAL choices,

Stick with it, Pray a lot, and see where it goes (It'll be an interesting ride).

OR

GET OUTTA THERE, and find a different Church that more accurately reflects his mindset.

Simple as that.

The "Ice block" rule applies. It' O.K. to sit on a block of ice - as long as the ice is melting under you. But when your posterior commences to freeze - it's time to move.

 

[Gospel Guy]

Any advice?

Yes... find a church that accepts God's Word FIRST and foremost above pleasing men.

It's very simple... you cannot force people to not be gay, and they cannot force you to ignore what God has said on the subject, so it's time to got to one of those wild full gospel churches where they take God's Word as it is written!

You'll have alot more fun and the devil will be scared of you!

 

[Ayleeann]

The pastor at my current church doesn't like to broach the subject, or let prayer leaders talk about it in small group Bible studies. About 80% of the people in this small congregation are over 50 including me and our pastor. However, he is fearful of driving some parishioners away because there are some folks who have gay kids or family members and they've accepted their lifestyle. I think he's wrong in trying to be politically correct and please everyone. He even discourages us from "visiting other churches" (I think because the congregation is kind of small) saying "we're all family here in the body, and if you visit other churches instead of coming here, you're hurting the body". I'm about ready to dislocate myself from this church and find one not so PC, or soft pressuring control. The pastors wife went so far as to tell my young adult daughter that it was basically "sinful" to listen to secular music and she needed to listen to only Christian bands....would you stay or leave?

 

[Albion]

The pastor at my current church doesn't like to broach the subject, or let prayer leaders talk about it in small group Bible studies. About 80% of the people in this small congregation are over 50 including me and our pastor. However, he is fearful of driving some parishioners away because there are some folks who have gay kids or family members and they've accepted their lifestyle. I think he's wrong in trying to be politically correct and please everyone. He even discourages us from "visiting other churches" (I think because the congregation is kind of small) saying "we're all family here in the body, and if you visit other churches instead of coming here, you're hurting the body". I'm about ready to dislocate myself from this church and find one not so PC, or soft pressuring control. The pastors wife went so far as to tell my young adult daughter that it was basically "sinful" to listen to secular music and she needed to listen to only Christian bands....would you stay or leave?

From what you've told us, I can't think of any reason to stay.

Everyone needs to be in the church that he feels is doing and believing right, that is good for the children, and that nurtures and develops one's spiritual life. There are many ways that any congregation can fall down on one of these points...and if so, leave for a better one. It's not as though you're turning your back on God, even though there are people who will try to convince you of that.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Not nature. Nurture. They probably just want the money that those people bring in.

However, God is TOLERANT!

And everyone else should be too!

 

[mandyangel]

If you have a pastor... a man trusted to speak for God... and he is speaking against God's wishes... that's not trustworthy.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

If you have a pastor... a man trusted to speak for God... and he is speaking against God's wishes... that's not trustworthy.

A Priest, if called by God, and who has been ordained and sanctified and anointed, and lives a holy life, is worthy of serving God on the people's behalf. He is not necessarily speaking for God, as a Prophet would, but is supposed to understand God's Law and Love well enough to be able to judge and forgive sins in Jesus' name, with God's grace.

Priests have always fallen from grace, from the first Priest, Aaron. They are just men, and are subject to sin. But if a Priest sins, it is the most grievous sin there is.

 

[jesse630]

As more messages get posted here I get more sick to my stomach. How can we claim to have God's love in our heart if we keep the lost, no matter who they are, at a sticks distance at all times? Jesus Himself said He was called a friend of sinners and that He came for the lost not the righteous. Homosexuals are just one more class of lost individuals that need Him, much like a person who merely is dishonest. You don't let your children not play with their friends because they lie do you? We all, myself included, need to be loving towards those who need the Lord and ask Him for guidance and wisdom and love in dealing with them. Not suiting up in our anti-chemical suits everytime one comes around.

 

[jesse630]

I totally agree with you. I didn't say they should not be allowed to come to church, just the same as anyone else. Just because they are gay doesn't make them unlovable.... their sin is no worse than a liar, but to be a member of the church, they should be repented of their sins. To continue with their life style as a gay person is not repenting... neither is a man and woman who live together and come to church, or a drunk, etc.

true

 

[jesse630]

I don't know what to think sometimes. Let's just leave it at that

 

[Fenny the Fox]

A Priest, if called by God, and who has been ordained and sanctified and anointed, and lives a holy life, is worthy of serving God on the people's behalf. He is not necessarily speaking for God, as a Prophet would, but is supposed to understand God's Law and Love well enough to be able to judge and forgive sins in Jesus' name, with God's grace.

Priests have always fallen from grace, from the first Priest, Aaron. They are just men, and are subject to sin. But if a Priest sins, it is the most grievous sin there is.

I agree...right up to the emphasized part. No pastor/priest/clergy is able to FORGIVE any sin. The scriptures tell us quite clearly that only Christ can forgive - a minister may be able to help lead a person down a rightful path, may be able to help guide their walk, even be quite important in leading to Christ Himself - but they CANNOT forgive any sin at all.