My church just changed their stance on homosexuals. What do I do?

[veryconservative]

Dear Forum,
I am a new member of this forum and am very troubled right now.
I am a very conservative old fashioned person, but I am in my 30's I am married and have three children.

I feel like the world has liberalized before my very eyes the last 15 years. I feel that as the older generation dies off we are left with a very liberal accepting younger generation. I belong to a church that had an extremely strong stance on homosexuals. They are still very against Gay marriage, and homosexual sexual relations. But they used to teach that gay people were not born that way, but that it is a perversion or sinful behavior, much like a sex addiction, or a pedophile, or married spouse that cheats on his wife 30 times.

My church came under fire for donating resources and man hours to pass Proposition 8 in California. I was proud of this accomplishment, and felt it was a great thing. I guess there was an overwhelming backlash from gays and their liberal friends. As well as liberal members within the congregation.

Recently my church announced that they apologize for their anti gay stance, and have changed official doctrine to recognize that homosexuals are born that way. And that as long as homosexuals refrain from sexual relations, they can hold many church positions and have full fellowship. This has probably always been policy, and I understand that we can't block people from worshiping that want to. But it's the born that way change that bothers me. I find it hard to believe that someone could act like one of those crazy flaming homosexuals, because they are born that way. Are people born as pedophiles then? Are the people with the strange fetishes born that way as well? What about the situations where a young boy is molested, and then becomes gay later in life? Surely he was not born that way? Or the battered angry wife, that divorces her husband and moves in with a woman and becomes a lesbian? Surely she was not born that way, but has turned her back on traditional relationships, because of her bad experience, and experiments.

My church also produced an instructional video where several gay people were interviewed, and their mannerisms were disgusting to me, and they even mentioned how fulfilling their gay relationships were.

I shelter my young kids very much. They do not watch movies with any intimate scenes, don't go on the internet except for kids sites, and then under supervision, and we don't let them play at other kids houses unless we really know the family well. I am concerned about them seeing the flamboyant behavior of a homosexual person. And personally I don't want to see it either. I am sick of their agenda. I want it the way it was 20+ years ago before they were emboldened. I don't think that gays that get married and adopt kids are families.

I feel like my church is jumping the bandwagon now, because they know that this lifestyle is going to be completely acceptable in another 20 years across the board, and that people that voice opinions like my own then will be looked at like racists are now. Like crackpots. Both me and my wife have a lot of time in this church. My wife doesn’t care about this as much as I do. But I am very bothered. Not attending church or changing denominations is not an option because it would cause a lot of strife in my marriage.

Sorry that this post is so long.

Any advice?

 

[Albion]

Hi. You are not alone, and you are perfectly entitled to your viewpoint. The problem arises when a person such as yourself is faced with making a hard decision about church membership. It is probably the case, as you suspect, that the church is bending over backwards in order to deflect criticism dating back to Prop 8, attempting to demonstrate a loving attitude towards homosexuals while still maintaining an opposition to the gay agenda.

But this is a slipperly slope and will most likely result in future concessions. Therefore, you have to decide whether you can, in good conscience, stay...or if you have to go. If you decide to switch congregations, I am sure (without knowing your denomination) that you can find one that is similar to your old one but more resolute on this issue.

That will be somewhat disruptive to you and require you to meet new friends, perhaps change worship times, and so on. How strongly do you feel about this?...because you are not going to get your present church to turn back.

 

[true2theword]

Dear Forum,
I am a new member of this forum and am very troubled right now.
I am a very conservative old fashioned person, but I am in my 30's I am married and have three children.

I feel like the world has liberalized before my very eyes the last 15 years. I feel that as the older generation dies off we are left with a very liberal accepting younger generation. I belong to a church that had an extremely strong stance on homosexuals. They are still very against Gay marriage, and homosexual sexual relations. But they used to teach that gay people were not born that way, but that it is a perversion or sinful behavior, much like a sex addiction, or a pedophile, or married spouse that cheats on his wife 30 times.

My church also produced an instructional video where several gay people were interviewed, and their mannerisms were disgusting to me, and the even mentioned how fulfilling their gay relationships were.

My church came under fire for donating resources and man hours to pass Proposition 8 in California. I was proud of this accomplishment, and felt it was a great thing. I guess a there was an overwhelming backlash from gays and their liberal friends. As well as liberal members within the congregation.

Recently my church announced that they apologize for their anti gay stance, and have changed official doctrine to recognize that homosexuals are born that way. And that as long as homosexuals refrain from sexual relations, they can hold many church positions and have full fellowship. This has probably always been policy, and I understand that we can't block people from worshiping that want to. But is the born that way change that bothers me. I find it hard to believe that someone could act like one of those crazy flaming homosexuals, because they are born that way. Are people born as pedophiles then? Are the people with the strange fetishes born that way as well? What about the situations where a young boy is molested, and then becomes gay later in life? Surely he was not born that way? Or the battered angry wife, that divorces her husband and moves in with a woman and becomes a lesbian? Surely she was not born that way, but has turned her back on traditional relationships, because of her bad experience, and experiments.

I shelter my young kids very much. They do not watch movies with any intimate scenes, don't go on the internet except for kids sites, and then under supervision, and we don't let them play at other kids houses unless we really know the family well. I am concerned about them seeing the flamboyant behavior of a homosexual person. And personally I don't want to see it either. I am sick of their agenda. I want it the way it was 20+ years ago before they were emboldened. I don't think that gays that get married and adopt kids are families.

I feel like my church is jumping the bandwagon now, because they know that this lifestyle is going to be completely acceptable in another 20 years across the board, and that people that voice opinions like my own then will be looked at like racists are now. Like crackpots. Both me and my wife have a lot of time in this church. My wife doesn’t care about this as much as I do. But I am very bothered. Not attending church or changing denominations is not an option because it would cause a lot of strife in my marriage.

Sorry that this post is so long.

Any advice?

run and run fast! get away from such a perverse body of believers before they corrupt your family, we are thoroughly warned that these types of satanic doctrines would come in, as a former sinner I was all these things,

there is a choice in these matters, and there is a way to be made a new creation in Christ, having the old things pass away and all things becomming new, but it requires repentance and rejection of the old sin's

 

[Tigger45]

I think some are born that way but very few but even with that it's not excuse. I was born a lier, lustful and vengeful and those are some of the reasons I need/ed a Savior. That's why it says in Mark 1:5 repent and believe. I think if your church taught it that way I would be fine with it. Gay people shouldn't be treated as if their sins are worse than anyone else's but it shouldn't condoned either.

 

[Faith.Man]

Hi. You are not alone, and you are perfectly entitled to your viewpoint. The problem arises when a person such as yourself is faced with making a hard decision about church membership. It is probably the case, as you suspect, that the church is bending over backwards in order to deflect criticism dating back to Prop 8, attempting to demonstrate a loving attitude towards homosexuals while still maintaining an opposition to the gay agenda.

But this is a slipperly slope and will most likely result in future concessions. Therefore, you have to decide whether you can, in good conscience, stay...or if you have to go. If you decide to switch congregations, I am sure (without knowing your denomination) that you can find one that is similar to your old one but more resolute on this issue.

That will be somewhat disruptive to you and require you to meet new friends, perhaps change worship times, and so on. How strongly do you feel about this?...because you are not going to get your present church to turn back.

I echo what Albion says above. I would only add to pray about this, preferably with your spouse before making a final decision. My wife and I left a church for different reasons than stated in the OP. But we were in agreement when we left. We were about 3 weeks apart in hearing from God, in this case I heard first (not always the case), but when she heard from God, we left and had peace with our decision.

 

[motherprayer]

I am also a quite conservative Christian, and my friend, I know so well how you feel! The direction this world is taking scares me for the sake of my young children. I pray Jesus comes soon.

Personally, I would find another church if I were you. I take special issue with allowing them to serve in ministry "as long as they don't engage in sexual activity." To me, that is like saying it is okay for a couple to live together before they get married as long as they remain chaste. They may SAY they will wait until marriage, but... well you know the rest :-/

I will be praying for you!

 

[lismore]

[
I feel like my church is jumping the bandwagon now, because they know that this lifestyle is going to be completely acceptable in another 20 years across the board, and that people that voice opinions like my own then will be looked at like racists are now. Like crackpots. Both me and my wife have a lot of time in this church. My wife doesn’t care about this as much as I do. But I am very bothered. Not attending church or changing denominations is not an option because it would cause a lot of strife in my marriage.

Sorry that this post is so long.

Any advice?

Hello

Did your church have a congregational vote on changing their stance? Maybe many of the other members share your concern.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

There is a pretty lengthy discussion in the Spirit-filled/Charismatic forum about this titled "Born Gay"... You should check that out something by searching for it. May help out. I will say briefly that I believe a person can be born with tendencies to that effect. Much how a person can be born with the nature to lie or steal or have lust... It's part of the sin nature. Now I will say that I do not believe if a person chooses to stay in that lifestyle that they can not be a Christian (Paul makes it pretty clear in 1 Cor 6 and Gal 5) and they should not be able to hold church office. I see nothing wrong with a view that says individuals are born that way because the sin nature is not something learned (although some sins are), it's something we are all born with. Read in Psalm 51 about how David admits he was born in sin and had sin from birth. That nature contains all forms and fashions of sin. Atleast that's my view on it. You can't say God makes us all perfect because then that implies that God's Word is false (see again Psalm 51:5) and that we lose perfection after we sin, something the Bible doesn't teach. Last I checked there's only been 3 people in Earth's history to be perfect: Adam, Eve, and Jesus. The first 2 obviously fit that previously stated mold but Jesus we know was entirely perfect. Just my view on it.

 

[veryconservative]

"Did your church have a congregational vote on changing their stance? Maybe many of the other members share your concern."

There was no congregational vote. Only among the heirachy. I am sure that there are a lot of people that will be upset by this.

I went and spoke to someone about it today for a few minutes, and discussed my fealings as I described them in my original post. He seemed understanding. But he certainly didn't seem to be anywhere near concerned as I am. He mostly listened to me and didn't really have any other input other than I should pray about it, and read scriptures. Which is good advice.
I certainly feel better at least getting my feelings out discussing this with him. At least he will know somebody is upset by it. I may get more than the 3 hours of sleep I got last night after tossing and turning, thinking about it.

Thanks for all your advice

 

[true2theword]

There is a pretty lengthy discussion in the Spirit-filled/Charismatic forum about this titled "Born Gay"... You should check that out something by searching for it. May help out. I will say briefly that I believe a person can be born with tendencies to that effect. Much how a person can be born with the nature to lie or steal or have lust... It's part of the sin nature. Now I will say that I do not believe if a person chooses to stay in that lifestyle that they can not be a Christian (Paul makes it pretty clear in 1 Cor 6 and Gal 5) and they should not be able to hold church office. I see nothing wrong with a view that says individuals are born that way because the sin nature is not something learned (although some sins are), it's something we are all born with. Read in Psalm 51 about how David admits he was born in sin and had sin from birth. That nature contains all forms and fashions of sin. Atleast that's my view on it. You can't say God makes us all perfect because then that implies that God's Word is false (see again Psalm 51:5) and that we lose perfection after we sin, something the Bible doesn't teach. Last I checked there's only been 3 people in Earth's history to be perfect: Adam, Eve, and Jesus. The first 2 obviously fit that previously stated mold but Jesus we know was entirely perfect. Just my view on it.

Romans teaches how Homosexuality happens, Its rebellion! its surpressing the truth in unrighteousness, they are without excuse, they did not glorify God nor were they thankful, thus they became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened,


professing to be wise they became fools, they became idolaters, today self worship is prominate, people are their own gods, so the bible says God gave them over to uncleanness, to the lust in their hearts, to dishonor their bodies amongst themselves, they exchanged the truth of God for a lie...etc ...etc ......its all there in Romans one


I tend to believe the bible over what secular studies try teaching

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Romans teaches how Homosexuality happens, Its rebellion! its surpressing the truth in unrighteousness, they are without excuse, they did not glorify God nor were they thankful, thus they became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened,


professing to be wise they became fools, they became idolaters, today self worship is prominate, people are their own gods, so the bible says God gave them over to uncleanness, to the lust in their hearts, to dishonor their bodies amongst themselves, they exchanged the truth of God for a lie...etc ...etc ......its all there in Romans one


I tend to believe the bible over what secular studies try teaching

Isnt all sin rebellion though? Im sure it is. Plus homosexuality is not the only consequence listed in Romans chapter 1: Romans 1:28-32 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; [they are] gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

So your point is really mute as all sin is a consequence of rebellion to God and we are all born with that nature.

 

[true2theword]

Isnt all sin rebellion though? Im sure it is. Plus homosexuality is not the only consequence listed in Romans chapter 1: Romans 1:28-32 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; [they are] gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

So your point is really mute as all sin is a consequence of rebellion to God and we are all born with that nature.

true we are born with a sin nature, what were not born with is same sex orientation

 

[ByTheSpirit]

true we are born with a sin nature, what were not born with is same sex orientation

Its cool you don't agree with me, you don't have too. I was merely explaining my views on the subject. One question though, if a person is not born with that tendency/desire, then when in your opinion do they learn it?

 

[true2theword]

Its cool you don't agree with me, you don't have too. I was merely explaining my views on the subject. One question though, if a person is not born with that tendency/desire, then when in your opinion do they learn it?

considering I know way to much about this topic, I can assure you the list of triggers and variables that can push a person in that direction is huge.

It would probably be as big as what causes Autism, many times its not just one thing, its probably a whole dynamic of things.

knowing that evil spirits know your weaknesses better than you do, is also a big factor in this equation, because when God gives you over to such things, ........guess who is over such things, there is complete recovery from such things, just as there is complete recovery from any addiction, and or sin

 

[JohnDB]

"Did your church have a congregational vote on changing their stance? Maybe many of the other members share your concern."

There was no congregational vote. Only among the heirachy. I am sure that there are a lot of people that will be upset by this.

I went and spoke to someone about it today for a few minutes, and discussed my fealings as I described them in my original post. He seemed understanding. But he certainly didn't seem to be anywhere near concerned as I am. He mostly listened to me and didn't really have any other input other than I should pray about it, and read scriptures. Which is good advice.
I certainly feel better at least getting my feelings out discussing this with him. At least he will know somebody is upset by it. I may get more than the 3 hours of sleep I got last night after tossing and turning, thinking about it.

Thanks for all your advice

Well...this is where the problem lies then. If these men do not speak for you or many of your friends in the congregation...time to rally them together. You can do this by petition, phone calls, letters and other means to get them to listen to you and your friends who all donated money to stop the legislation.

Remind them that they are SERVANT leaders. Not bosses by fiat. And unilaterally they have made this decision that is going to upset a whopping portion of their congregation and that if they can't get it straight and soon that you and your friends are going to get a new hierarchy which will reflect the desires of the congregation of being more Godly. Romans is very clear on the subject and if the church wants a policy that is in direct defiance of that scripture then all of you will want a new church. And that one way or the other...this is wrong and you all are going back to the original.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

considering I know way to much about this topic, I can assure you the list of triggers and variables that can push a person in that direction is huge.

It would probably be as big as what causes Autism, many times its not just one thing, its probably a whole dynamic of things.

knowing that evil spirits know your weaknesses better than you do, is also a big factor in this equation, because when God gives you over to such things, ........guess who is over such things, there is complete recovery from such things, just as there is complete recovery from any addiction, and or sin

Well first you said that rebellion to God causes homosexuality and now it's a whole bunch of things. I'm not going to get into symantics with you because I'm not a therapist or a doctor that studies this stuff, I just know what the Bible says on the subject, in a small part. I don't claim to know everything about the subject because it is a vast one. I appreciate your comments though but I have said my piece and will bow out. God bless.

 

[SharonL]

A church that has in it's acceptance something that is plainly stated in the Bible as an abomination to God is not following God's Word or leading. I would remove myself from that church as I would not want my children taught this kind of acceptance. It will be hard enough for them to not be confused because of the teaching in schools. They don't need more.

 

[true2theword]

Well first you said that rebellion to God causes homosexuality and now it's a whole bunch of things. I'm not going to get into symantics with you because I'm not a therapist or a doctor that studies this stuff, I just know what the Bible says on the subject, in a small part. I don't claim to know everything about the subject because it is a vast one. I appreciate your comments though but I have said my piece and will bow out. God bless.

No I stick with what I first said, the second in which you wanted to know when these orientations change, can be manipulated by many different factors

In the same way I could take a small child and from a young age train him to steal, and make him a thief. was he born a thief?, what led him to thievery?, at some point the child knew right from wrong, and when he continued to be a thief is when He rebelled against God. he knowingly sins,
so what caused him to be a thief?.........shall we say he was born with a genetic flaw that caused him to continually take things that didn't belong to him?

 

[Faith.Man]

you needed to pray about it?.........wow......spiritual discernment has left the church

God desires a relationship with Him through His Son Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I pray quite often and highly recommend the practice. You should try it sometime.

 

[true2theword]

God desires a relationship with Him through His Son Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I pray quite often and highly recommend the practice. You should try it sometime.

you are right the other day I was thinking "should I get a gun and kill my whole family".......hmmm I thought to myself, I wonder what God thinks about murdering my whole family in cold blood?........hmmmm I think I should pray about it, cuz I'm just not sure how God feels about such things?