My Bicycle Challenge

[PsychoSarah]

1. How old is the new bicycle physically?

As old as the parts you used.

1. How old is the new bicycle existentially?

This question has no meaning, because the bike is without consciousness, and thus would have no mental age. If you mean how long it has existed as the current bike it is, technically not 3 years (a few minutes if you are talking about right after you built it).

Interestingly, we'd be able to tell that this bike was made from bits of other bikes, as it would be highly unlikely that all the bike parts wore down exactly the same between the original 100 new bikes. What I mean by that is, one bike chain could be more rusted than another, etc.

 

[AV1611VET]

If you mean how long it has existed as the current bike it is, technically not 3 years (a few minutes if you are talking about right after you built it).

So a 3-year-old bike has been in existence for 3 minutes ... right?

 

[PsychoSarah]

So a 3-year-old bike has been in existence for 3 minutes ... right?

Only a dishonest person would sell the bike claiming it is so new. However, to be blunt, a bike is still the sum of its parts. The parts may have been put together for only 3 minutes, but they are still 3 years old, and thus, so is the bike. It just has been put together for only 3 minutes.

If you put an 80 year old heart in my body, it doesn't matter that the majority of me is 22, that heart is still going to be 80 years old and function as such. Likewise, the rest of my body is still going to function as it would normally, with some hindrance from the older part.

I want to comment that if this is going in the direction of "making something old recently", the parts were still made 3 years ago, and could have been put together at any point and worked.

 

[AV1611VET]

Only a dishonest person would sell the bike claiming it is so new.

What if that 'dishonest person' sold the bike with a manual detailing what he did, when he did it, how he did it, how long it took to do it, why it took that long, where it was done, and who the eyewitnesses were?

I want to comment that if this is going in the direction of "making something old recently", the parts were still made 3 years ago, and could have been put together at any point and worked.

That is correct.

The direction this is going is toward the fact that something can indeed have two different ages: one physical and one existential.

 

[PsychoSarah]

What if that 'dishonest person' sold the bike with a manual detailing what he did, when he did it, how he did it, how long it took to do it, why it took that long, where it was done, and who the eyewitnesses were?That is correct.

Nope, that person would just be abusing a technicality, that being that the bike was only recently put together. Since the parts aren't new, the bike isn't. Furthermore, that person could write whatever they want, and claim as many eyewitnesses as they wanted, but if those eyewitnesses are dead, they can't testify.

The direction this is going is toward the fact that something can indeed have two different ages: one physical and one existential.

-_- the point of that being what? That a deity could make a man 25 years old, even though he only existed just then, and not for 25 years? That doesn't really help your case, seeing as you have to demonstrate that a deity exists before making claims on its capabilities.

 

[quatona]

What if that 'dishonest person' sold the bike with a manual detailing what he did, when he did it, how he did it, how long it took to do it, why it took that long, where it was done, and who the eyewitnesses were?That is correct.

Are you suggesting that God merely assembled the Universe from pre-existing parts? His alleged "manual" seems to state otherwise.

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you suggesting that God merely assembled the Universe from pre-existing parts?

No.

 

[Colter]

I have a lot containing 100 brand-new shiny bicycles that I leave sitting out in the elements.

After three years, they are rusty & dirty.

I then build a bicycle, using one part from each of the bicycles: a seat from one, handlebars from another, front tire from another, chain from another, etc.

Two questions:

1. How old is the new bicycle physically?
2. How old is the new bicycle existentially?

It's a new creation.

 

[quatona]

No.

Good, since whatever point it is that you are trying to make here - it is irrelevant for your idea of creatio ex nihilo.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Well?

How old is this thread? Is it 5 years or 2 days old?

And I think you made a good point in post #44. This thread is too long already.

 

[look4hope]

can a car encounter the same dilemma?

 

[AV1611VET]

can a car encounter the same dilemma?

I would assume so.

 

[durangodawood]

I have a lot containing 100 brand-new shiny bicycles that I leave sitting out in the elements.

After three years, they are rusty & dirty.

I then build a bicycle, using one part from each of the bicycles: a seat from one, handlebars from another, front tire from another, chain from another, etc.

Two questions:

1. How old is the new bicycle physically?
2. How old is the new bicycle existentially?

1. 3 years old.
2. 3 years old.

Age of bike typically refers to age of the frame. This would be reinforced by all the parts being that age too.

 

[AV1611VET]

1. 3 years old.
2. 3 years old.

Age of bike typically refers to age of the frame. This would be reinforced by all the parts being that age too.

How about My Canoe Challenge?

 

[durangodawood]

How about My Canoe Challenge?

Thats a brand new canoe. You are very talented.

 

[AV1611VET]

You are very talented.

Awww - go on!

 

[Kylie]

I have a lot containing 100 brand-new shiny bicycles that I leave sitting out in the elements.

After three years, they are rusty & dirty.

I then build a bicycle, using one part from each of the bicycles: a seat from one, handlebars from another, front tire from another, chain from another, etc.

Two questions:

1. How old is the new bicycle physically?
2. How old is the new bicycle existentially?

For the sake of argument, we'll say that we are looking at all this the day after you put all the different pieces together.

The bicycle has been in its current arrangement for a day.

The parts from which you built this bicycle are three years old.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

For the sake of argument, we'll say that we are looking at all this the day after you put all the different pieces together.

The bicycle has been in its current arrangement for a day.

The parts from which you built this bicycle are three years old.

Yes. This challenge is just 'recycling' the 'Ship of Theseus' puzzle (sometimes known as Grandfather's Axe); it's a semantic problem, about how we define identity.

 

[Ophiolite]

it's a semantic problem, about how we define identity.

You say it's to do with semantics. I say it's to do with some antics: the antics of an individual who has never let his good nature stand in the way of being thoroughly close minded.

 

[AV1611VET]

You say it's to do with semantics. I say it's to do with some antics: the antics of an individual who has never let his good nature stand in the way of being thoroughly close minded.

LOL -- stealth compliment? or stealth insult?