My Bicycle Challenge

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,664
51,417
Guam
✟4,896,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I have a lot containing 100 brand-new shiny bicycles that I leave sitting out in the elements.

After three years, they are rusty & dirty.

I then build a bicycle, using one part from each of the bicycles: a seat from one, handlebars from another, front tire from another, chain from another, etc.

Two questions:

  1. How old is the new bicycle physically?
  2. How old is the new bicycle existentially?
 

OllieFranz

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2007
5,328
351
✟23,548.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
This is the inverse of the philosophical conundrum known as The Ship of Theseus. The Athenians preserved the original ship of the hero Theseus for hundreds of years. As one board rotted or was infested with vermin, etc, it would be replaced with new wood. Eventually there was no original wood left on the ship. Is it still the same ship? If not, at what point did it cease to be the Ship of Theseus?

Another conumdrum, which combines the original Ship of Theseus with the inverse is "Which is the real Nick Chopper?" In the later Oz books, we learn that the Tin Woodsman was originally a real human being named Nick Chopper, who was cursed by one of the wicked witches. (I don't remember which one, but that's not important.) Under the curse, a missed swing of his axe took off an arm, and he had a tinsmith build him an artificial one. But the curse was not finished, and one by one he lost and replaced all of his body parts until he was entirely made of tin.

In the meantime, the witch had made a golem or robot for herself, and every time Nick lost a body part, he would get it and would use it to replace the corresponding body part on her creation. So once the woodsman was all tin, the robot was all flesh -- Nick's flesh. So which was the "real" Nick Chopper?

Each of these versions of the conundrum has several proposed solutions, but there is no
 
Upvote 0

Split Rock

Conflation of Blathers
Nov 3, 2003
17,607
730
North Dakota
✟22,466.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
I have a lot containing 100 brand-new shiny bicycles that I leave sitting out in the elements.

After three years, they are rusty & dirty.

I then build a bicycle, using one part from each of the bicycles: a seat from one, handlebars from another, front tire from another, chain from another, etc.

Two questions:

  1. How old is the new bicycle physically?
  2. How old is the new bicycle existentially?

Define: "existential" for us please.
 
Upvote 0

Phileas

Newbie
Aug 31, 2009
454
42
✟8,312.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
In Relationship
It depends how far back you want to go and how detailed you want the answer. Simple answer is that the bike is as old as when you built it. Slightly more in depth answer; it is as old as the when the parts that make it up were made. More in depth; it's as old as the material that consists of the parts, i.e. as old as whichever star formed the heavy elements making up that bike. One step further; it's as old as the matter that makes up the atoms, i.e. as old as the universe. I guess it's sort of like a fractal problem with no one conclusive answer, but it would be common sense that if someone asked you the age of your bike you'd say that you built it last week.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,664
51,417
Guam
✟4,896,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
It depends how far back you want to go and how detailed you want the answer. Simple answer is that the bike is as old as when you built it. Slightly more in depth answer; it is as old as the when the parts that make it up were made. More in depth; it's as old as the material that consists of the parts, i.e. as old as whichever star formed the heavy elements making up that bike. One step further; it's as old as the matter that makes up the atoms, i.e. as old as the universe. I guess it's sort of like a fractal problem with no one conclusive answer, but it would be common sense that if someone asked you the age of your bike you'd say that you built it last week.
I'm looking for numbers in your answers -- a commodity Internet scientists seem to be low on.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Orogeny

Trilobite me!
Feb 25, 2010
1,599
54
✟9,590.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
What kind of bikes? Mountain or road? Which brand? Shimano drivetrain? How much are you selling them for, and where are you located? Do you have anything in the 54cm range? I'll settle for a 52cm if necessary. Do you ship, or do I have to pick the bikes up myself?

You can just PM me with details. Thanks, AV!
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,664
51,417
Guam
✟4,896,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
What kind of bikes? Mountain or road? Which brand? Shimano drivetrain? How much are you selling them for, and where are you located? Do you have anything in the 54cm range? I'll settle for a 52cm if necessary. Do you ship, or do I have to pick the bikes up myself?

You can just PM me with details. Thanks, AV!

This stuff says a lot.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Split Rock

Conflation of Blathers
Nov 3, 2003
17,607
730
North Dakota
✟22,466.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Time in existence, trips around the sun.

If that is the case, I see no reason to differentiate between "physical" age and "existential" age. They are the same. Since the bicycle parts are all three years old, I would say the bicycle is three years old.

Now what?
 
Upvote 0

CabVet

Question everything
Dec 7, 2011
11,738
176
Los Altos, CA
✟28,402.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
If that is the case, I see no reason to differentiate between "physical" age and "existential" age. They are the same. Since the bicycle parts are all three years old, I would say the bicycle is three years old.

Now what?

Exactly, if you change the tires of a car with used tires you cannot claim you have "new" tires.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,664
51,417
Guam
✟4,896,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
If that is the case, I see no reason to differentiate between "physical" age and "existential" age. They are the same. Since the bicycle parts are all three years old, I would say the bicycle is three years old.

Now what?
So the gestalt I present to you (the manufactured bicycle) has gone around the sun three times?

It's parts have, but not the bicycle itself.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,664
51,417
Guam
✟4,896,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Exactly, if you change the tires of a car with used tires you cannot claim you have "new" tires.
That's not the same -- individual parts are not the subject of this OP.

Either make a whole new car from parts of other cars, or your point is moot.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

CabVet

Question everything
Dec 7, 2011
11,738
176
Los Altos, CA
✟28,402.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
That's not the same -- individual parts are not the subject of this OP.

Either make a whole new car from parts of other cars, or your point is moot.

You cannot make a "new" car (or bike) with used parts.
 
Upvote 0