My Apple Challenge II

[AV1611VET]

But it would certainly lend credence to the idea that apples can be created ex nihilo...

I couldn't care less. It's not my job to further "lend credence" to my own hypothetical. In other words, I shouldn't have to dance through hoops if I create an apple and hand it to you and ask a simple question. If you don't have an answer - you simply don't have an answer; and there's nothing wrong with admitting that.

 

[TheBear]

Thank you --- you want to answer my OP, now?

I already did. I even pointed it out to you. You're either too stubborn or too dishonest to admit that your "challenge" is just as ludicrous and inane as mine.

Have a nice day.

 

[LewisWildermuth]

I couldn't care less. It's not my job to further "lend credence" to my own hypothetical. In other words, I shouldn't have to dance through hoops if I create an apple and hand it to you and ask a simple question. If you don't have an answer - you simply don't have an answer; and there's nothing wrong with admitting that.

I have had people "create" cards, coins, birds, all sorts of things out of "nothing" in front of me before. Every time it was a simple magic trick, if you refuse to provide evidence otherwise why should I believe you?

The refusal to provide evidence or even repeat the apple creation further pushes people to believe it was just a trick.

 

[pgp_protector]

I have had people "create" cards, coins, birds, all sorts of things out of "nothing" in front of me before. Every time it was a simple magic trick, if you refuse to provide evidence otherwise why should I believe you?

The refusal to provide evidence or even repeat the apple creation further pushes people to believe it was just a trick.

True, 8th rule of magic is never repeat the same trick

 

[Tiberius]

You don't.

So all I have is your word?

Yeah, because no one's ever told a lie in order to put themselves into a better position.

Until you can give me proof, you'll get no belief from me.

Would you believe me if I told you that the apple I was holding had been created ex nihilo just a few moments ago? Even if I couldn't provide any supporting evidence at all?

 

[Psudopod]

If I examned the apple, found it to be just like any other apple and came to the conclusion that it was not created ex -nihilo, then yes, I would be wrong. But could you blame me?

I know you'll say yes for not having faith, but you've yet to show me why I should have faith in you for saying you created the apple. Even if I did believe you, if I studied the apple, all I could conclude was that it was no different to one growing on a tree. I could go "Whoo! Go AVET with your awesome apple creating powers!", but it wouldn't change what I knew about apples, and it wouldn't change what I did if I wanted to know more about apples.

 

[Tomk80]

Bear, believe it or not, someone started another thread somewhere about caterpillars morphing into butterflies; and I answered with a children's song saying, in so many words, "God did it" (pertaining to that very topic) --- and I got reported for spamming.

I promise you --- I won't stoop to that level here.

How does this thread differ from spam? Especially with you refusing to answer decent posts that you don't like because they don't say exactly what you want them to say.

 

[Tomk80]

Reading the rest of the thread, I will once more make the observation that the OP is in no way analogous to the "ex nihilo" creation of the universe for very obvious reasons.

 

[AV1611VET]

So all I have is your word?

Yeah, because no one's ever told a lie in order to put themselves into a better position.

Until you can give me proof, you'll get no belief from me.

Would you believe me if I told you that the apple I was holding had been created ex nihilo just a few moments ago? Even if I couldn't provide any supporting evidence at all?

Tiberius --- take another look at my OP:

I present to you an apple that was created ex nihilo.

How can you refuse to accept that --- without being wrong?

I'm not asking you to believe it --- that's not the point. In fact, whether a person believes the first sentence or not - should not change the answer at all.

I'm going to give you another one, just to hammer my point home.

This challenge is just for you, Tiberius, so you can see clearly where I'm coming from:

1 + 1 = 2.

How can you refuse to accept that --- without being wrong?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Especially with you refusing to answer decent posts that you don't like because they don't say exactly what you want them to say.

Indeed. It's just a rehash of the old apple challange.

 

[AV1611VET]

Indeed. It's just a rehash of the old apple challange.

In a way --- yes.

This challenge is different, though. In the original challenge, you are the "middleman." I give you an apple, and ask you to take it to your friend. There are three parties involved.

But in this challenge, you are the "end man." You are given an apple by me. There are only two parties involved.

The perspectives have changed.

I almost called this thread: MY INVERSE APPLE CHALLENGE.

 

[Tomk80]

Help me out here, AV. How does this make this "challenge" any more meaningful. Because I cannot see how it would apply to anything.

 

[Loudmouth]

I present to you an apple that was created ex nihilo.

How can you refuse to accept that --- without being wrong?

If you are making it up I would be right. If you hallucinated the whole thing I would be right.

If you had a hallucination and refused to accept it you would be wrong.

 

[Nathan Poe]

In a way --- yes.

This challenge is different, though. In the original challenge, you are the "middleman." I give you an apple, and ask you to take it to your friend. There are three parties involved.

But in this challenge, you are the "end man." You are given an apple by me. There are only two parties involved.

The perspectives have changed.

Indeed -- now you're the middleman -- one with zero credibility.

 

[[serious]]

well, with only 2 people involved, there are 4 possibilities:

1. you are lying
2. you are crazy
3. you have magic powers
4. I misunderstood your claim

Now, we can rule out #4 in the hypothetical though It ask for clarrification in real life. A lie detector could provide evidence for #1. A psych eval could provide evidence for #2. further carefully controlled tests of your magic powers (to rule out trickery) could provide evidence for #3.

refusal to participate in such evidence gathering would indicate lying.

 

[POSW]

I present to you an apple that was created ex nihilo.

How can you refuse to accept that --- without being wrong?

I can't refuse to accept that without being wrong. But I don't know that I'm wrong, and what you claim to have done goes against all known science, as well as my personal experience.

So your question is a trick question.

I hand an ordinary apple to you, and claim that I just bought it from the grocery store. I show you the receipt.

How can you refuse to accept THAT without being wrong?

 

[AV1611VET]

Hi, POSW --- nice to meet you ---

Welcome to CF! I hope you enjoy it here.

I hand an ordinary apple to you, and claim that I just bought it from the grocery store. I show you the receipt.

How can you refuse to accept THAT without being wrong?

If you're trying to mimic my OP, you've added an extra ingredient.

I present to you an apple that was created ex nihilo.

How can you refuse to accept that --- without being wrong?

See the difference? You're only claiming it, whereas I'm stating mine as fact.

In order to answer your challenge, I would have to compare the apple to your receipt, and make a judgment call based on those two together.

In mine, you're holding an apple created ex nihilo, and asked how you can deny it.

You're handing me two things --- I'm handing you one.

 

[Tiberius]

Okay, let's try this.

I present to you a universe and its contents which I created ex nihilo five minutes ago - the very universe we are in, actually, and everything in it. I'm not claiming it, I am stating it as fact.

How can you refuse to accept it without being wrong?

 

[AV1611VET]

Okay, let's try this.

I present to you a universe and its contents which I created ex nihilo five minutes ago - the very universe we are in, actually, and everything in it. I'm not claiming it, I am stating it as fact.

How can you refuse to accept it without being wrong?

Tiberius, I can understand everyone wanting to be an AV1611VET; but do it in your own thread, okay?

 

[AintNoMonkey]

This may be the most worthless thread I've ever read, and I've read some Chan threads. Wow.

Now thank me for my contribution.