Mutation gives mouse poison resistance

[EternalDragon]

And neither can you do any of those things (personally) and state they did happen, now can you?

In absence of actually "being there" historians rely on the historical method, to determine "what likely" happened in the past. Man can write whatever he wishes in an ancient book (or really a bunch of ancient writings in which the true authors are really unknown) and then the powers at be can make the determination, of what they want to use to put in a book. Jesus wasn't the first messiah to be born of a virgin, crucified and risen form the dead, man made up several before him, do you believe in any of those?

Some christians don't like a critical OBJECTIVE eye placed on the bible and I can understand why, but it doesn't change reality. it is what it is.

None of those materialized and were actually based on prior knowledge of the real Jesus.

 

[dad]

So, there you accept the existence of beneficial mutations after all. Thanks for admitting.

Why would a created trait NOT exist in mice?

 

[bhsmte]

None of those materialized and were actually based on prior knowledge of the real Jesus.

Prior knowledge of Jesus?

You would be wrong.

 

[CabVet]

Why would a created trait NOT exist in mice?

A mutation is not a "created trait", it is a new one.

 

[dad]

A mutation is not a "created trait", it is a new one.

The ability TO mutate and change is a trait that must exist after the fact of a creature existing!

 

[EternalDragon]

A mutation is not a "created trait", it is a new one.

I just want to ask a question and it may sound like a silly one.

So you believe that a colony of mice like creatures, if they had to constantly run uphill and say flap their forearms while doing so to evade predators, would then develop enough mutations to enable their forearms to turn into wings? (New blood vessel layouts, new tendon locations, muscles, etc.)

And then enough other mutations to develop feathers, navigational skills, egg laying ability to become a......bird like creature?

All because they were trying to avoid a predator that they could have avoided by simply running faster or hiding better?

 

[CabVet]

The ability TO mutate and change is a trait that must exist after the fact of a creature existing!

There is no "ability to mutate". "Ability to mutate" is not a "trait", it is a simple physical byproduct of having genetic information encoded in DNA.

 

[CabVet]

I just want to ask a question and it may sound like a silly one.

So you believe that a colony of mice like creatures, if they had to constantly run uphill and say flap their forearms while doing so to evade predators, would then develop enough mutations to enable their forearms to turn into wings? (New blood vessel layouts, new tendon locations, muscles, etc.)

And then enough other mutations to develop feathers, navigational skills, egg laying ability to become a......bird like creature?

All because they were trying to avoid a predator that they could have avoided by simply running faster or hiding better?

No, absolutely not. What you write was written and refuted in the 1800s (yes, that is 200 years ago). Again, please try to learn what evolution is before trying to refute it.

 

[dad]

There is no "ability to mutate".

No, so they have no ability to mutate according to you? Tell us then, how does mutating occur if no one has the ability??

"Ability to mutate" is not a "trait", it is a simple physical byproduct of having genetic information encoded in DNA.

Well, no, not really. It is also a byproduct of our current laws and forces! If something is 'coded' that means there is a 'coder'! What, you think complicated codes are random?

Not only do we have a complicated code but we have a machine that houses the code (mouse in this case). Then we have this state which is the operating system!

 

[EternalDragon]

No, absolutely not. What you write was written and refuted in the 1800s (yes, that is 200 years ago). Again, please try to learn what evolution is before trying to refute it.

I was sort of thinking it was you who recently posted that video of how flight in animals developed. Maybe it was someone else.

It showed a dino running up a hill, flapping it's small arms and that is how evolutionists think wings (flight) came about.

So to be clear, you do not think that mutations and natural selection give rise to complex, new traits and cause evolution?

 

[CabVet]

No, so they have no ability to mutate according to you? Tell us then, how does mutating occur if no one has the ability??

A mutation is not an "act" or an "ability". It is something that happens. When humans get old, their hair turns gray. Gray hair is not an "ability", it is something that happens when you get old. Mutation is not an "ability", it is something that happens when your DNA is replicated.

Well, no, not really. It is also a byproduct of our current laws and forces! If something is 'coded' that means there is a 'coder'! What, you think complicated codes are random?

Not only do we have a complicated code but we have a machine that houses the code (mouse in this case). Then we have this state which is the operating system!

No, just no, take your imaginary state somewhere else, it has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

[CabVet]

I was sort of thinking it was you who recently posted that video of how flight in animals developed. Maybe it was someone else.

No, not me.

It showed a dino running up a hill, flapping it's small arms and that is how evolutionists think wings (flight) came about.

No, this is not how evolutionary biologists think.

So to be clear, you do not think that mutations and natural selection give rise to complex, new traits and cause evolution?

The process you described in the your previous post was not mutations and natural selection giving rise to complex new traits.

Yes, I do think mutations and natural selection give rise to complex, new traits and cause evolution.

 

[dad]

A mutation is not an "act" or an "ability". It is something that happens.

So something that happens say, like a carnival, is not an act? What, it is a random event??

When humans get old, their hair turns gray. Gray hair is not an "ability", it is something that happens when you get old. Mutation is not an "ability", it is something that happens when your DNA is replicated.

This world has the ability to turn a head gray! Men have the ability to be alive long enough for this to happen oftentimes. Our hair can grow, it has that ability! It also can change to gray, in response to all the current forces working on that head! If there was no man, then no hair on a man would be turning gray! First we need the man. His body has the ability to do many things.

No, just no, take your imaginary state somewhere else, it has nothing to do with this discussion.

Take your string theory somewhere else while you are at it. Imaginary dimensions can turn the hair gray if one believes in them. They have that ability.

 

[CabVet]

So something that happens say, like a carnival, is not an act? What, it is a random event??

A carnival is an act. Rain is not.

Ignoring your imaginary state unrelated text.

 

[EternalDragon]

Yes, I do think mutations and natural selection give rise to complex, new traits and cause evolution.

I may be wrong but it sounds as if you are contradicting yourself.

(You did so in another post as well but don't think you realize it.)

 

[CabVet]

I may be wrong but it sounds as if you are contradicting yourself.

(You did so in another post as well but don't think you realize it.)

I am not contradicting myself. The description of evolution in your first post is completely erroneous and I do not agree with it.

(Perhaps you should read what you wrote again. I will help you out:

I just want to ask a question and it may sound like a silly one.

So you believe that a colony of mice like creatures, if they had to constantly run uphill and say flap their forearms while doing so to evade predators, would then develop enough mutations to enable their forearms to turn into wings? (New blood vessel layouts, new tendon locations, muscles, etc.)

And then enough other mutations to develop feathers, navigational skills, egg laying ability to become a......bird like creature?

All because they were trying to avoid a predator that they could have avoided by simply running faster or hiding better?

 

[dad]

A carnival is an act. Rain is not.

If we make rain it is an act. Just because some hillbilly might not realize that does not mean that rain could not be made. God set up this world and it's weather systems. That means, whether you realize it or not, that He made the rain basically. In the flood He sent the rain. In other times He withheld the rain.

Ignoring your imaginary state unrelated text.

Until the string theory dimensions are proven, they will remain imaginary, no matter who likes it or not.

 

[CabVet]

If we make rain it is an act.

But we don't.

 

[bhsmte]

If we make rain it is an act. Just because some hillbilly might not realize that does not mean that rain could not be made. God set up this world and it's weather systems. That means, whether you realize it or not, that He made the rain basically. In the flood He sent the rain. In other times He withheld the rain.

Until the string theory dimensions are proven, they will remain imaginary, no matter who likes it or not.

Yea, the story goes he brought the rain, which caused the flood and caused a torturous death for many people, this loving God.

He either likes to use the weather (and several other means) as a weapon to torture people (he loves so much), or weather patterns are what they are, with no influence from a diety.

 

[EternalDragon]

I am not contradicting myself. The description of evolution in your first post is completely erroneous and I do not agree with it.

(Perhaps you should read what you wrote again. I will help you out:

Do mutations and natural selection produce complex features that were not present in the original group of creatures or not?