Islam Muslim Leaders/people needed

[FutureAndAHope]

I will add another note, Israel did an extensive scientific study using the scientific method to prove healing is real. The only catch is they had different groups prayer christians at one time jews another buddhists another. Here is what the study conclusively found, and if anyone wants i am happy to source. No matter what name you prayer in jesus muhammed or even satan, it all had the same effect and accelerated healing like the cases you suggest do but with evidence. The people praying to jesus had the same effect as the buddhists and the satanists. You just cant make this stuff up man.

I really do not put much weight on those types of studies. The reason why I say that is that the bible tells us that God has set with in the church people with various spiritual giftings. Just selecting a random sample of Christians to pray will not gaurentee any healing will occur, or nothing more than the expected.

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: - 1Co 12:28

If I ever get this challenge off the ground, I would be inviting people like Todd White Todd White to pray. He has a history of seeing many amazing miracles, and people like David Hogan Freedom Ministries | Jesus is King These people have past history of seeing amazing miracles.

In the mean time, you are stuck with me, and my prayers. But I am hopeful God will begin to use me more fully, than in the past.

As I mention on my website:

The above scripture show us that God, has specifically assigned people in the church to have different functions. Any Christian given time and space to grow and develop their relationship with Jesus can perform a miracle. However not all Christians can perform a miracle on the spot. I have seen some small instant healings, but I am certainly not a “worker of miracles”. God has spoken to me many times, but I am no prophet. Does that mean we should not pray for people who need a great big miracle, of course not, prayer and especially corporate prayer is very powerful. If you visit our home page you will see examples of some miracles. I have even heard of stories of people who in Jesus name have raised a dead person back to life, David Hogan in Mexico is an example of performing this. But let us remember.

 

[Cis.jd]

I know this is terrifying most people would not say this but it should be clear 911 immediately then prayer period. Not at the same time you focus on first rendering physical aid, then you can start praying once you have fulfilled all you can in that matter. None of our faith should be based on blind faith you know i think we would all agree there.

I know, and I agree with you... but I'm challenging the OP on this just based on the context of his reasoning, especially since this is going to be entered into a debate with Islam and be successful.

So the OP has to reason out why he would call an ambulance at all.

 

[Matthew86]

I really do not put much weight on those types of studies. The reason why I say that is that the bible tells us that God has set with in the church people with various spiritual giftings. Just selecting a random sample of Christians to pray will not gaurentee any healing will occur, or nothing more than the expected.

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: - 1Co 12:28

If I ever get this challenge off the ground, I would be inviting people like Todd White Todd White to pray. He has a history of seeing many amazing miracles, and people like David Hogan Freedom Ministries | Jesus is King These people have past history of seeing amazing miracles.

In the mean time, you are stuck with me, and my prayers. But I am hopeful God will begin to use me more fully, than in the past.

As I mention on my website:

The above scripture show us that God, has specifically assigned people in the church to have different functions. Any Christian given time and space to grow and develop their relationship with Jesus can perform a miracle. However not all Christians can perform a miracle on the spot. I have seen some small instant healings, but I am certainly not a “worker of miracles”. God has spoken to me many times, but I am no prophet. Does that mean we should not pray for people who need a great big miracle, of course not, prayer and especially corporate prayer is very powerful. If you visit our home page you will see examples of some miracles. I have even heard of stories of people who in Jesus name have raised a dead person back to life, David Hogan in Mexico is an example of performing this. But let us remember.

There is absolutely no reason to disregard evidence science and God do not contradict each other.
Here is a scientific verified study where random people are selected to pray and they increase healing 53% you cant make this up jesus does not heal God heals.
Effects of remote, retroactive intercessory prayer on outcomes in patients with bloodstream infection: randomised controlled trial

 

[Amittai]

What does that have to do with my comment?

Apologies, it was about the comment you were commenting on, I "mis-pasted" - sorry!

History talk is worthy of its own thread. If we accept a combination of New and Short chronologies, that still probably means Old Earth.

 

[Amittai]

Some people have been saying what scriptural basis do I have for believing Jesus will answer my, and other peoples prayers. Here is my answer. ...

The bible clearly tells us that we can have what we ask for in prayer, if we are abiding in Christ and his word. It is God’s offer. Still I can’t twist God’s arm, but I can stand on His word. Time will tell whether God want’s this challenge to keep going.

Yet the answer comes not by our goodness, but God's good offer.

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

1 - my question was, about what you define as "this challenge" and not about Christ or His will.
2 - a largish chunk of God's will is how well we look after each other, which additionally covers matters additional to "the working of" miracles. The hearing of faith only operates when those other things are there as well.
3 - God is going to cause miracles, unexpectedly, but He is not going to "Rise" to "your challenge".
4 - The complaints you have expressed in some posts against the beliefs of muslims might be about their largely (by them) supposed theology, and / or "cultural expressions", and might be well enough arguable in another context, but as it is only individuals that will read this specific thread, they will start by feeling painted into a corner, just like they get from bossy parents (if they have such), or from ideologists on "their" side. As someone else pointed out, they are not going to admire your lack of intellectual rigour. I have many years' personal experience of being subjected to the very thing you are doing in those particular posts, so I know what I am commenting about.

 

[Amittai]

I really do not put much weight on those types of studies. The reason why I say that is that the bible tells us that God has set with in the church people with various spiritual giftings. . .

. . . But covet earnestly the best gifts: - 1Co 12:28

If I ever get this challenge off the ground, I would be inviting people like Todd White Todd White to pray. He has a history of seeing many amazing miracles, and people like David Hogan Freedom Ministries | Jesus is King These people have past history of seeing amazing miracles.

In the mean time, you are stuck with me, and my prayers. But I am hopeful God will begin to use me more fully, than in the past.

As I mention on my website:
. . . Any Christian given time and space to grow and develop their relationship with Jesus can perform a miracle. . . If you visit our home page you will see examples of some miracles. I have even heard of stories of people who in Jesus name have raised a dead person back to life, David Hogan in Mexico is an example of performing this. But let us remember.

1 - strangely, you have now dropped Islam as your topic
2 - St Paul in Corinthians does NOT advocate "Bethelated Spirits" and suchlike ostentation.

 

[Amittai]

. . . I think tower of Babel story is about the collapse of Babylon's civilization and a loss of literacy.

According to David Rohl, the event occurred in the reign of Nimrod whom he "equates" to En-meru-kar who tried to not only achieve his own status vis-a-vis the religion of Aratta (as would all conquerors) but to supplant all religions with a single world religion (like Julian also tried). Some scholars place Nimrod a few hundred years nearer our own time than Rohl does - a fair whack ago at any rate!

A possible meaning in the name Aratta (albeit they may have had a monarch in practice) may have been to allude to the ideal of not having an earthly but only a heavenly King. (There are probably other possible derivations.)

This was thought to be Nimrod's most blasphemous act and following that, the kingdom fell apart anyway, with people migrating in all directions - there were probably environmental problems as well as political and economic ones.

A big part of the lesson for us is that we need, in our churches, the diversity of gifts that He intended when ascending.

 

[Amittai]

quote Not a good "source". The WCDN is run by the cultish South Korean Manmin Joongang church.
World Christian Doctors Network (WCDN ) - an arm of the Manmin cult
Manmin Central Church Explained
BBC News | Asia-Pacific | Korean TV airs controversial documentary

Their pastor was just recently sentenced to a 16 year of jail term for raping female followers.
The Seoul Times unquote

Just like I was pointing out - ostentation - outside the context of a balance of Christian virtues - and something our God is NOT going to compete in - and He respects individuals' consciences and minds if some others don't.

Well here's my counterchallenge to the OP, what is your thread actually ABOUT???

 

[th1bill]

I will gladly convert if you can prove that believers can raise other believers from the dead after several days like jesus did. Jesus said he gave you the power to raise the dead heal the sick cast out devils i am not making this up brother. Then he says these things you will do and even greater things why do you wonder after these things? The words of jesus not mine. Anything real is reproducible so i go back to what i said, post one video of what i said and again im totally throwing out non believers just to help you out. Evidence not mystical yeshua god man deity fighting the devil god to ascend up to the sun disk god head to cover you in human sacrificed blood and communicate to the perfect godhead for you. Come on how is it possible Horus who went around in egypt rtaising the dead healing the sick curing the blind and fighting the devil for your salvation HELLO did anyone else study pagan religions except me? If you claim to be of God didn't you escape from Egypt why are you doing what their pagan religions did???

What would you convert to? Christianity? I did but I did so in Faith as required and not from some staged video. Christianity, its pure form that saves is not a Religion, as the Islamic Religion is, it is faith in the teachings of the scriptures that saves. Videos are easily faked, just watch the screen as any action movie is projected upon it. I watched the same actor being killed and or murdered over and over and yet he died in his bed in Hollywood, an old man.

There is a reason, stated in scripture why we see more miracles in the US than the EU does and yet, incredibly less than in Asia and Central America. Where there is no faith, almost none are to be seen. Where there is little faith, as in the EU and the US there are more but not many. In places like Guatemala, Honduras, China or Thailand and all of Africa there are great things witnessed.

Now, there is a principal found in scripture thay all well founded Christians live by to this day, we live by faith, not by sight. But tell me, please, why are you playing the Fool's game and seeking to change the subject?

 

[Matthew86]

What would you convert to? Christianity? I did but I did so in Faith as required and not from some staged video. Christianity, its pure form that saves is not a Religion, as the Islamic Religion is, it is faith in the teachings of the scriptures that saves. Videos are easily faked, just watch the screen as any action movie is projected upon it. I watched the same actor being killed and or murdered over and over and yet he died in his bed in Hollywood, an old man.

There is a reason, stated in scripture why we see more miracles in the US than the EU does and yet, incredibly less than in Asia and Central America. Where there is no faith, almost none are to be seen. Where there is little faith, as in the EU and the US there are more but not many. In places like Guatemala, Honduras, China or Thailand and all of Africa there are great things witnessed.

Now, there is a principal found in scripture thay all well founded Christians live by to this day, we live by faith, not by sight. But tell me, please, why are you playing the Fool's game and seeking to change the subject?

Those scriptures you believe in are actually the Jewish scriptures of which there is only 1 version in the world, The english "Translations" number over 100,000 and all disagree with each other that is number 1. Without those Jewish scriptures your testament has ZERO relevance and automatically falls apart, the Jewish scriptures not only do not need jesus to stand on their own, jesus is the equivalent to the anti-christ in the Jewish Bible he does all the opposite things the Messiah will do which i can prove all day long from SCRIPTURE not magical feelings and mumbo jumbo.

Number 2 you expect everyone to believe that somehow all those places and people that have faith are also poor and don't have camera's nor common sense. They could even write articles to their local newspapers. Every local paper should have a regular column of all the weekly jesus miracles. An israeli study proved healing can be done even by non religious people and satanists those are facts published using the scientific method over several years. Again there is no reason for faith to be blind God gave us brains and things like science to help us along in life.

 

[th1bill]

Hi Bill - I am not a follower of Islam. I am a Christian, and I am praying through Jesus name. I believe Jesus still heals, etc.

As I mentioned to Mathew, I do not discourage people from seeing a doctor, I don't mind if people see a doctor, all I ask people is for the opportunity to pray for them, and see Jesus work. There are plenty of illnesses that need Jesus, doctors can't treat everything.

For Mathew: I have seen Jesus perform miracles, as I mention on my website. Everybody Matters Ministry | Online Church

Okay, then what is your tie with Islam and other Muslim believers that you have not clarified? FYI: I obviously believe in a Healing Ministry, the ministry outlined in scripture by Yashuah ha'Mashiah but Neither I, my on the field Missionaries nor any of my Baptist nor any of my Pentecostal Pastors and Missionaries believe in a healing that there are no laying on of hands nor full body, face to face contact as Elijah did for the ladies son.

 

[Matthew86]

Studies on intercessory prayer - Wikipedia

A lot of studies show insignificant results although some do show some effectiveness. Something that is not measured is a person's prayer ability you could say, as well as a patients receptiveness to prayer. Without some structure to those 2 things it is hard to say you have good data. I would agree that laying on hands is more effective than not, but this can obviously be explained by several things. I cite the fact a baby that is never or barely held will not be as healthy as those showered with love and attention.

 

[Matthew86]

Effects of remote, retroactive intercessory prayer on outcomes in patients with bloodstream infection: randomised controlled trial

There is the Disraeli study i mentioned submitted to the journal of medicine. In that study he demonstrates prayers effectiveness, although not an extreme amount, and not what i would call miraculous just a little supernatural. A miracle would be regrowing a leg or a 5 day old dead body coming back to life ( see why lazarus was important ), neither of which i have even heard a hint of being true.

 

[th1bill]

Those scriptures you believe in are actually the Jewish scriptures of which there is only 1 version in the world, The english "Translations" number over 100,000 and all disagree with each other that is number 1. Without those Jewish scriptures your testament has ZERO relevance and automatically falls apart, the Jewish scriptures not only do not need jesus to stand on their own, jesus is the equivalent to the anti-christ in the Jewish Bible he does all the opposite things the Messiah will do which i can prove all day long from SCRIPTURE not magical feelings and mumbo jumbo.

Number 2 you expect everyone to believe that somehow all those places and people that have faith are also poor and don't have camera's nor common sense. They could even write articles to their local newspapers. Every local paper should have a regular column of all the weekly jesus miracles. An israeli study proved healing can be done even by non religious people and satanists those are facts published using the scientific method over several years. Again there is no reason for faith to be blind God gave us brains and things like science to help us along in life.

No sir, I am saying nothing of the sort but unlike yourself, it appears, I am working hard to not fall back on myself but rather I seek my LORD's Council for when I try to represent Him anywhere and that, usually is and always is my sought after mental condition. I do not want to be angry with anyoe here and in spite of your efforts to change the subject I am trying hard not to just ignore you in this vain effort.

Healing Ministries are the least understood and the most abused by the Tight Fisted Money Grubing Liars such as Benny, the, now, millionaire. But you are all hung up on proof by sigtht and the scriptures demand faith. I earnestly pray you are cured of this evil and find the faith that saves... eternally.

 

[Matthew86]

No sir, I am saying nothing of the sort but unlike yourself, it appears, I am working hard to not fall back on myself but rather I seek my LORD's Council for when I try to represent Him anywhere and that, usually is and always is my sought after mental condition. I do not want to be angry with anyoe here and in spite of your efforts to change the subject I am trying hard not to just ignore you in this vain effort.

Healing Ministries are the least understood and the most abused by the Tight Fisted Money Grubing Liars such as Benny, the, now, millionaire. But you are all hung up on proof by sigtht and the scriptures demand faith. I earnestly pray you are cured of this evil and find the faith that saves... eternally.

The person i am and the knowledge i rely on comes from the Hebrew Scriptures and mainstream agreed common sense. If you want to physically help people with healing, the evidence shows you should go be a doctor of some sort, or help support those that want to become one. There is no reason to be scared of science anything that is real can be repeated and can be at bare minimum alluded to its effectiveness, throwing out science is what caused the Dark Ages remember?

- Speaking from the viewpoint of an 18 year cancer survivor that was obese and changed my life around for the better.

 

[th1bill]

The person i am and the knowledge i rely on comes from the Hebrew Scriptures and mainstream agreed common sense. If you want to physically help people with healing, the evidence shows you should go be a doctor of some sort, or help support those that want to become one. There is no reason to be scared of science anything that is real can be repeated and can be at bare minimum alluded to its effectiveness, throwing out science is what caused the Dark Ages remember?

- Speaking from the viewpoint of an 18 year cancer survivor that was obese and changed my life around for the better.

Well, that's cute. The aircraft I put all of my earthly faith in for eight years required a brand new set of equasions for Science to understand why it flew at all let alone better than a small fixed wing that require a runway or field multiple times it's length to put it on the ground or to take it off.

I will not discuss science in this string because the scientific community, in general, has no grasp on Faith and except for the rare man, knows naught about the Spiritual World.

And then you say you are Jewish. Are you a Jew or are you a Jewish Believer? The Ancient Jew, before and after he or she were called Jewish had only faith, the faith of their fathers.

 

[Matthew86]

Well, that's cute. The aircraft I put all of my earthly faith in for eight years required a brand new set of equasions for Science to understand why it flew at all let alone better than a small fixed wing that require a runway or field multiple times it's length to put it on the ground or to take it off.

I will not discuss science in this string because the scientific community, in general, has no grasp on Faith and except for the rare man, knows naught about the Spiritual World.

And then you say you are Jewish. Are you a Jew or are you a Jewish Believer? The Ancient Jew, before and after he or she were called Jewish had only faith, the faith of their fathers.

Currently a jewish believer you could say going through conversion ( 1 to 2 year education process ) I absolutely would not call myself a jew as my knowledge compared to a well educated Jew is small. I believed all the same things you and every other person that reads the new testament say the jews are of the synagogue of satan. So thank you for even asking and not treating me like i am automatically devil possessed because i believe jesus was a person and a teacher and a king but not God, simply because the Bible tells me God cannot be man. The historical evidence for jesus is there 100% but he doesn't fit in the role of Jewish messiah. World peace, no more war, God wont be taught anymore, the offerings are resumed, new temple built, messiah offers a sacrifice for his sins and the sins of the people at the temple, messiah will reign 40 years and have children, the list goes on for days.

The Jews don't have the concept of faith like christianity does, The Jewish Scriptures are an inerrant love letter from God penned by his prophets, not only to the Jews but to the world. The Jews have a strict lifestyle of preserving the scriptures ( every man must write a Torah in his lifetime ) as well as being the light to the nations we all agree with that. The 10 commandments i believe clearly has done a lot for humanity, Jews were the first to abolish slavery with the Jubilee, Jews were the first to respect the rights of women, have hygiene laws, the very language of Hebrew itself appears to be the descendant of most modern languages our alphabet, comes from the Hebrew Aleph-Bet. I could go on and on but anyone that believes all Jews are evil go to a synagogue call some Rabbis and get to know them and make up your own mind don't accept someones brainwashing.

 

[th1bill]

Currently a jewish believer you could say going through conversion ( 1 to 2 year education process ) I absolutely would not call myself a jew as my knowledge compared to a well educated Jew is small. I believed all the same things you and every other person that reads the new testament say the jews are of the synagogue of satan.

See, there you are on the assault... why are you dreaming trash to sling on me. I hold true the Judeo-Christian beliefs and have, in no way, do I automatically partition the Jewish Camp as devil worshipers, that trash is yours. Pleas objectively reread our exchanges here and please read the title of this string. If you do that you will discover that you have been very rude and sought and still seek to change the subject here while I await a Healing from the OP, a Healing that I know cannot be mine without the Perfect Will of my Heavenly Father.

Please let me know when you begin a string where we will not be intruding.

So thank you for even asking and not treating me like i am automatically devil possessed because i believe jesus was a person and a teacher and a king but not God, simply because the Bible tells me God cannot be man. The historical evidence for jesus is there 100% but he doesn't fit in the role of Jewish messiah. World peace, no more war, God wont be taught anymore, the offerings are resumed, new temple built, messiah offers a sacrifice for his sins and the sins of the people at the temple, messiah will reign 40 years and have children, the list goes on for days.

The Jews don't have the concept of faith like christianity does, The Jewish Scriptures are an inerrant love letter from God penned by his prophets, not only to the Jews but to the world. The Jews have a strict lifestyle of preserving the scriptures ( every man must write a Torah in his lifetime ) as well as being the light to the nations we all agree with that. The 10 commandments i believe clearly has done a lot for humanity, Jews were the first to abolish slavery with the Jubilee, Jews were the first to respect the rights of women, have hygiene laws, the very language of Hebrew itself appears to be the descendant of most modern languages our alphabet, comes from the Hebrew Aleph-Bet. I could go on and on but anyone that believes all Jews are evil go to a synagogue call some Rabbis and get to know them and make up your own mind don't accept someones brainwashing.

 

[summerville]

1 - strangely, you have now dropped Islam as your topic
2 - St Paul in Corinthians does NOT advocate "Bethelated Spirits" and suchlike ostentation.

In Islam a "faith healer" would be considered a swindler and a sorcerer... and that is NOT the same as praying for someone who is ill.

 

[Matthew86]

See, there you are on the assault... why are you dreaming trash to sling on me. I hold true the Judeo-Christian beliefs and have, in no way, do I automatically partition the Jewish Camp as devil worshipers, that trash is yours. Pleas objectively reread our exchanges here and please read the title of this string. If you do that you will discover that you have been very rude and sought and still seek to change the subject here while I await a Healing from the OP, a Healing that I know cannot be mine without the Perfect Will of my Heavenly Father.

Please let me know when you begin a string where we will not be intruding.

First juedo-christian is not real there is no link with judaism and christianity it is like christianity and islam.
Evidence - Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews
Talking about the children of Abraham john says.
John 8:44 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.

Paul is the first satanist 2 corinthians 4:4 satan the god of this world

Matthew 27:25 claims the jews say let jesus blood be on us and our children which isnt possible if you believe the bible only if you believe in satan

24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.
I could go on for days you support racism against an entire people and then have the nerve to claim you replaced them and the are literally children ofthe devil. Not all muslims are children of the devil i have known great muslims. You will be brought before God to be judged for those things you did and the evil you allowed and you will feel greatly ashamed at what you have done and said and supported through blind faith and satanistic christian worship.