Muslim discrimination

[The Cadet]

Slavery is the same as employment today but with improved workplace rules.

If you wanted to, could you quit your job?

 

[SkyWriting]

Your defense of the practice of beating "employees", is noted.

There are biblical rules against that as well as improved rules today.

 

[SkyWriting]

If you wanted to, could you quit your job?

There are now specific laws that allow that in todays Master / Slave relationship.
Just like there were specific laws then.

15"You shall not hand over to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you.16"He shall live with you in your midst, in the place which he shall choose in one of your towns where it pleases him; you shall not mistreat him

16“Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.

 

[The Cadet]

There are now specific laws that allow that in todays Master / Slave relationship.

...That is a substantial difference, would you not agree? The ability to quit one's job, the ability to seek employment elsewhere, to ability to leave a business relationship? You keep trying to build these parallels between slavery and modern employment, while completely missing that the things that aren't parallel form the main things that make slavery so monstrous. If you are a slave, you cannot "quit" your master. Your master has no responsibility to treat you like a human being, or even to refrain from beating or maiming you. You have the freedom to be your own person. The list goes on. If you seriously cannot tell the difference, then I think you should contact the Department of Labor, because either you have no idea what you're talking about, or your boss is doing a whole lot of very illegal things.

 

[DogmaHunter]

You call them "bits" and fail to produce them. I'm willing to help you with any nasty bits you find.

I know what kind of "help" you produce.

Like calling the brutal slavery of the OT to be "not slaves" but "employees".

I'm really not interested in your defenses of the practice of brutal public executions for trivial things, the barbaric treatment of women, genocide, infanticide, slavery,...

Obviously, you do your best to minimize it all and make up excuses for it. You feel psychologically compelled to do so, to hold on to your beliefs.

But for me it is quite simple.... there are NO circumstances, NO contexts where such practices are morally okay or even neutral. It's primitive and ignorant barbarism, nothing more or less.

 

[SkyWriting]

That is a substantial difference, would you not agree? The ability to quit one's job, the ability to seek employment elsewhere, to ability to leave a business relationship? You keep trying to build these parallels between slavery and modern employment, while completely missing that the things that aren't parallel form the main things that make slavery so monstrous.

The degree to which you decide how monstrous an employer can be
does not change the fact that the Slave / Master relationship continues
today with your blessing.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The difference is that many of the conditions have been
improved by additional laws. Similar to the laws that were
in place back then. It's less barbaric, but not that great. - Sky



Children Found Sewing Clothing For Wal-Mart, Hanes & Other U.S. & European Companies
From the Institute for Global Labour and Human Rights (formerly National Labor Committee)
According to a National Labor Committee 2006 report, an estimated 200 children, some 11 years old or even younger, are sewing clothing for Hanes, Wal-Mart, J.C. Penney, and Puma at the Harvest Rich factory in Bangladesh.

The children report being routinely slapped and beaten,

sometimes falling down from exhaustion, forced to work 12 to 14 hours a day, even some all-night, 19-to-20-hour shifts, often seven days a week, for wages as low as 6 ½ cents an hour. The wages are so wretchedly low that many of the child workers get up at 5:00 a.m. each morning to brush their teeth using just their finger and ashes from the fire, since they cannot afford a toothbrush or toothpaste.

That is horrible.

Couple of points:
1. the "good book" regulates this type of "employment" and considers it okay.

2. no western secular democracy considers this "okay".

3. the slavery in the bible is still worse then this horrible story. Next to being exploited and beaten, they were also considered the PROPERTY of the master.

 

[SkyWriting]

I'm really not interested in your defenses of the practice of brutal public executions for trivial things, the barbaric treatment of women, genocide, infanticide, slavery,...
But for me it is quite simple.... there are NO circumstances, NO contexts where such practices are morally okay or even neutral. It's primitive and ignorant barbarism, nothing more or less.

And you have encouraged representatives to make laws against such things
to eliminate your discomfort. So what is the problem?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yes, it's called employment now.

No, it's not.

You seem to be suggesting that slavery "evolved" into employment. As if no FREE people were being employed at the time when FREE people also kept SLAVES.

Do you understand the word "FREE"?
Do you understand the word "PROPERTY"?
Do you understand the word "SLAVE"?

It sounds like you don't.

 

[DogmaHunter]

There are biblical rules against that as well

Yes, indeed there are. And that rule is that the "employee" can't die within 2 days as a result of the beating. If he dies on the 4th day - then that's okay.

 

[DogmaHunter]

And you have encouraged representatives to make laws against such things
to eliminate your discomfort. So what is the problem?

The problem is that you consider such barbarism to be okay and even feel the need to defend it.

 

[SkyWriting]

Next to being exploited and beaten, they were also considered the PROPERTY of the master.

Employees are treated that way today. They are considered human assets.
There are machine costs and labor costs.
Human Asset Management
Human Capital Definition
Human investment managers are at risk of being rendered obsolete by rapid advances in algorithmic trading technology, according to the brains behind one of the world’s leading computer-driven hedge funds. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/17129fc0-a48c-11e4-8959-00144feab7de.html#axzz3x7K6BJIk

 

[SkyWriting]

The problem is that you consider such barbarism to be okay and even feel the need to defend it.

It's historical fact. I defend that it's been recorded for you to read about.

 

[SkyWriting]

Yes, indeed there are. And that rule is that the "employee" can't die within 2 days as a result of the beating. If he dies on the 4th day - then that's okay.

Things have improved some.

Lewis received just $45,000 in workers’ compensation for the loss of his arm.
Potter was awarded benefits that could surpass $740,000 over his lifetime.

Yes, they can change jobs.

 

[The Cadet]

does not change the fact that the Slave / Master relationship continues

Are. You. Your. Employer's. Property? A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.

 

[SkyWriting]

Are. You. Your. Employer's. Property? A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.

Yes, that's how he treats us.

Let me give you another example.
A new coworker backed into a motorhome
causing $2000 damage. Now he will
have to be a "slave" to the boss and
do anything the boss asks. Though
he is a seasoned professional, now
he will tend to the bosses second
home, wash the floors, feed the
chickens, and do many jobs outside
his job description. Since he was out
of work before this, he doesn't have
the $2000.

So...can he go find a new job now?

 

[The Cadet]

Yes

Then call the police, because he is in violation of international and federal law, and could face over a decade in prison for what he's doing.

 

[Dave-W]

Not really. Workplace bullying is a significant problem, and there are laws on the books to prevent it. If your boss is consistently causing that kind of mental distress, there's a problem.

As a federal employee we have to go thru classes on this every 2 years. Bullying has NOT been added to the list (but the trainer keeps saying that it will be at some time in the future).

 

[DogmaHunter]

It's historical fact. I defend that it's been recorded for you to read about.

It seems to me that you are defending the practices themselves, since you feel the need to object to calling them "the nasty bits".

Also, clearly I'm not arguing against the idea that these practices were recorded.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yes, that's how he treats us.

Let me give you another example.
A new coworker backed into a motorhome
causing $2000 damage. Now he will
have to be a "slave" to the boss and
do anything the boss asks. Though
he is a seasoned professional, now
he will tend to the bosses second
home, wash the floors, feed the
chickens, and do many jobs outside
his job description. Since he was out
of work before this, he doesn't have
the $2000.

This is a stupid anecdote, not to mention that the boss can't legally demand such things.

So...can he go find a new job now?

Yes. You are always, at any time, free to find another job.
In fact, he doesn't even need to wait to find another job. You can quit your current job at any time. As in: an employer can't force an employee to not quit.

I find it amazing how removed from reality you are.