Multiverse Theory and multiple Ezekiel 37 type events.

[DennisTate]

Attempts to find sub-atomic physics in the pages of the Bible make me cringe.

If you will do a search for the name Dr. Chaim Henry Tejman you might find that Wave Theory helps to explain how the universe works.

 

[Radrook]

...I think a better explanation would be that the author was prone to ASC (Altered States of Consciousness) or that s/he was using symbolic language.

Unfortunately, that altered-state explanation can be understood as dovetailing nicely with a casting of doubt on the Bible's authenticity as inspired by God via holy spirit:

2 Tim 3:15 15 From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…

2 Peter 1:21 ►
New International Version
For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Extreme caution must be taken when the Holy Spirit is involved:

Matthew 12:31 ►
New International Version
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

[/QUOTE]

BTW
It is not uncommon for unbelievers to suggest that both Ezekiel and the Apostle John were under the influence of some type of mind-altering drugs when they had their visions.

 

[DennisTate]

Unfortunately, that altered-state explanation can be understood as dovetailing nicely with a casting of doubt on the Bible's authenticity as inspired by God via holy spirit:





Extreme caution must be taken when the Holy Spirit is involved:

BTW
It is not uncommon for unbelievers to suggest that both Ezekiel and the Apostle John were under the influence of some type of mind-altering drugs when they had their visions.

Near death experiencer Dannion Brinkley saw a fulfillment of
the Mark of the Beast during his brush with death that fits well with both
Multiverse Theory...... as well as with the Book of Revelation.

He was shown a time line for this though that fits with Multiverse Theory.....
because it seems that in our time line many of the disasters have been delayed and delayed and delayed.......
which fits with the desire that G-d has that all men be saved........
and the promise that Messiah Yeshua will draw all men to Himself.

John 12:32

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

BOX 12: Technology & Virus

The 11th box was gone & I was into the 12th box. Its visions addressed an important event in the distant future, the decade of the 90's (remember, this was 1975), when many of the great changes would take place. In this box, I watched as a biological engineer from the Middle East found a way to alter DNA & create a biological virus that would be used in the manufacture of computer chips. This discovery allowed for huge strides in science & technology. Japan, China, & other countries of the Pacific Rim experienced boom times as a result of this discovery & became powers of incredible magnitude. Computer chips produced from this process found their way into virtually every form of technology, from cars & airplanes to vacuum cleaners & blenders.

Before the turn of the century, this man was among the richest in the world, so rich that he had a stranglehold on the world economy. Still the world welcomed him, since the computer chips he had designed somehow put the world on an even keel. Gradually, he succumbed to his own power. He began to think of himself as a deity & insisted on greater control of the world. With that extra control, he began to rule the world.

His method of rule was unique. Everyone in the world was mandated by law to have one of his computer chips inserted underneath his or her skin. This chip contained all of an individual's personal information. If a government agency wanted to know something, all it had to do was scan your chip with a special device. By doing so, it could discover everything about you, from where you worked & lived to your medical records & even what kind of illnesses you might get in the future.

There was an even more sinister side to this chip. A person's lifetime could be limited by programming this chip to dissolve & kill him with the viral substance it was made from. Lifetimes were controlled like this to avoid the cost that growing old places on the government. It was also used as a means of eliminating people with chronic illnesses that put a drain on the medical system. People who refused to have chips implanted in their bodies roamed as outcasts. They could not be employed & were denied government services." (Dannion Brinkley, Saved By The Light, chapter 5)

 

[Radrook]

Near death experiencer Dannion Brinkley saw a fulfillment of
the Mark of the Beast during his brush with death that fits well with both
Multiverse Theory...... as well as with the Book of Revelation.

He was shown a time line for this though that fits with Multiverse Theory.....
because it seems that in our time line many of the disasters have been delayed and delayed and delayed.......
which fits with the desire that G-d has that all men be saved........
and the promise that Messiah Yeshua will draw all men to Himself.

John 12:32

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

The visions that John and Ezekiel are described as inspired by holy spirit and not due to mere altered states of consciousness.

 

[DennisTate]

The visions that John and Ezekiel are described as inspired by holy spirit and not due to mere altered states of consciousness.

I agree....... but the fact that some near death experiencers report being shown many similar things should perhaps give us Christians reason to study these things further.

 

[brinny]

Dennis, unless i missed it, who is "Q"?

 

[DennisTate]

Matthew 11:20 - 24
Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:


Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

"But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee."

.........
Could it be that in non-linear time Messiah Yeshua - Jesus will do works in Sodom and Gomorrah that will result in a greater revival in those cities than in Capernaum?

 

[DennisTate]

I don't think the physicist touched on the subject of prophecy.

Probably not.... but I know of a prophet who to my thinking.......
is getting into subjects that relate to Theoretical Physics.......(I think)?????!

 

[DennisTate]

Dennis, unless i missed it, who is "Q"?

A character on the Star Trek series......
who can walk through walls and meet with Captain Kirk, Spok and the crew
much as Messiah Yeshua - Jesus appeared to the disciples after his resurrection..... even when the doors were locked.

 

[DennisTate]

Here is an interesting angle on Ezekiel 37:

Ken Rank

United 2 Restore (and a few other groups) are centered around Ezekiel 37:17 which states about Ezekiel taking the two sticks into his hand, “Then JOIN them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.” The thing is, the word for “join” in this verse is qarav, and it isn't so much “join” as it is “draw near.” So Ezekiel draws the two sticks near one another but they remain unique, they remain the sticks/houses of Judah and Joseph, UNTIL God makes them echad in HIS HAND (vs. 19). Exactly what we will look like at that point is something only God knows. I suspect both sticks will give in a little and both sticks will find out that they aren't right about everything. As God has said through Jeremiah, twice, “I will indeed discipline you but only in due measure.” We will all be corrected which should be the foundation for a humbling of us all. That Great Wall of religious pride simply can't be part of this movement.

That is why so many have determined, prayerfully, that living in mutual respect of one another is the only way we can “draw near” and respect who each is, individually, until God makes us one. But, mutual respect is not just something we say, we HAVE TO make it part of how we live, how we approach each other. If we are trying to make the other stick accept the beliefs and practices of our stick, that is not mutual respect. God promised to make us one, HE WILL DO IT, in His timing, not ours. So, we have to decide between us trusting what He said He will do, or continue trying to do His work for Him. The House of Judah and the House of Israel will become one united House of Israel again and forever. God has promised, it is written, it will be done.

 

[RealityCheck01]

An online friend of mine posted an explanation in the language of high level theoretical physics...

The quote is correctly called word salad. In this case words from nuclear physics mashed together in a fairly incomprehensible text. Cranks also tend to use inappropriate capitalization as in that quote. Massive overuse (and maybe ignorance of) ellipsis

An ellipsis (plural ellipses; from the Ancient Greek: ἔλλειψις, élleipsis, "omission" or "falling short") is a series of dots (typically three, such as "…") that usually indicates an intentional omission of a word, sentence, or whole section from a text without altering its original meaning.[1]

The author is ignorant about science since there are no actual multiverses in his text. There is gibberish about a black dog.

The author is at least misleading about Ezekiel 37, which is

Ezekiel 37 is the thirty-seventh chapter of the Book of Ezekiel in the Hebrew Bible or the Old Testament of the Christian Bible. This book contains the prophecies spoken by the prophet Ezekiel, and is a part of the Books of the Prophets.[1] This chapter contains a vision of the resurrection of dry bones, widely known as the vision of the "valley of dry bones", in which Ezekiel at last assures the captives in Babylon that they will return from exile.[2]

Conclusion: A probably ignorant person somewhere on the internet.

ETA: He does get some basics right, e.g. how quarks make up protons, neutrons and mesons.

ETA: Also "the language of high level theoretical physics" is called mathematics together with coherent English descriptions.

 

[Kaon]

An online friend of mine posted an explanation in the language of high level theoretical physics that fits extremely well with the idea that Ezekiel chapter 37 is not limited to being a one time event but instead may occur again and again and again as G-d leads all Israel and all the world closer and closer to the time spoken of by Paul......

Romans 11:32....."For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."

Your friend is talking about quantum chromodynamics - it is something I am familiar with, but that isn't my specialty.

However, I am familiar with scalar fields, and the probability of observing elementary particles such as quarks and neutrinos. Generally, every single one of the particles that exists can, and do exist anywhere in space at any given instant. The spiel is that one must make observations to "ground" a particle, or collection of particles (mass/energy). That includes spacial dimensions.

His explanation of the dynamics of the elementary particles, and the comparison to multiverse theory may be better received if we replace "multiverse" with "multi/inter"dimensional. Then, we can begin to address the issues in QM - like bilocation, remote fields/non-locality, and scalar vacuum energies of elementary particles. We observe inter-dimensional action of particles, but usually call it something else.

I think I am missing how this connects to Ezekiel 37, though.

 

[Ophiolite]

Attempts to find sub-atomic physics in the pages of the Bible make me cringe.

In all fairness, the pages are made of sub-atomic particles, held together by sub-atomic forces.

 

[DennisTate]

Your friend is talking about quantum chromodynamics - it is something I am familiar with, but that isn't my specialty.

However, I am familiar with scalar fields, and the probability of observing elementary particles such as quarks and neutrinos. Generally, every single one of the particles that exists can, and do exist anywhere in space at any given instant. The spiel is that one must make observations to "ground" a particle, or collection of particles (mass/energy). That includes spacial dimensions.

His explanation of the dynamics of the elementary particles, and the comparison to multiverse theory may be better received if we replace "multiverse" with "multi/inter"dimensional. Then, we can begin to address the issues in QM - like bilocation, remote fields/non-locality, and scalar vacuum energies of elementary particles. We observe inter-dimensional action of particles, but usually call it something else.

I think I am missing how this connects to Ezekiel 37, though.

Thank you for this excellent reply...........
The connection to Ezekiel 37 happens when we combine this basic idea with information from near death experience accounts.... that could be about other time lines..... that may have already occurred.

If.... what near death experiencer Dannion Brinkley was shown that sounds like another time line..... then the implication is that you and I....... .have gone through an Ezekiel 37 event...... we have been resurrected..... into a new time line..... in which we can delay, and delay and delay and delay...... the fulfillment of the mark of the beast that occurred well before 2018.... in that other time line.

BOX 12: Technology & Virus

The 11th box was gone & I was into the 12th box. Its visions addressed an important event in the distant future, the decade of the 90's (remember, this was 1975), when many of the great changes would take place. In this box, I watched as a biological engineer from the Middle East found a way to alter DNA & create a biological virus that would be used in the manufacture of computer chips. This discovery allowed for huge strides in science & technology. Japan, China, & other countries of the Pacific Rim experienced boom times as a result of this discovery & became powers of incredible magnitude. Computer chips produced from this process found their way into virtually every form of technology, from cars & airplanes to vacuum cleaners & blenders.

Before the turn of the century, this man was among the richest in the world, so rich that he had a stranglehold on the world economy. Still the world welcomed him, since the computer chips he had designed somehow put the world on an even keel. Gradually, he succumbed to his own power. He began to think of himself as a deity & insisted on greater control of the world. With that extra control, he began to rule the world.

His method of rule was unique. Everyone in the world was mandated by law to have one of his computer chips inserted underneath his or her skin. This chip contained all of an individual's personal information. If a government agency wanted to know something, all it had to do was scan your chip with a special device. By doing so, it could discover everything about you, from where you worked & lived to your medical records & even what kind of illnesses you might get in the future.

There was an even more sinister side to this chip. A person's lifetime could be limited by programming this chip to dissolve & kill him with the viral substance it was made from. Lifetimes were controlled like this to avoid the cost that growing old places on the government. It was also used as a means of eliminating people with chronic illnesses that put a drain on the medical system. People who refused to have chips implanted in their bodies roamed as outcasts. They could not be employed & were denied government services." (Dannion Brinkley, Saved By The Light, chapter 5)

Jeremiah 23:20

"The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly."

If I am correct that this theory implies at least one full fledged fulfillment of Ezekiel 37..... .then we can know that G-d loves us immensely and gets us to do it again.... and perhaps again.... and perhaps again.... until we get it right.... and turn to G-d with our whole hearts....... and love our neighbours as ourselves.

 

[DennisTate]

The quote is correctly called word salad. In this case words from nuclear physics mashed together in a fairly incomprehensible text. Cranks also tend to use inappropriate capitalization as in that quote. Massive overuse (and maybe ignorance of) ellipsis


The author is ignorant about science since there are no actual multiverses in his text. There is gibberish about a black dog.

The author is at least misleading about Ezekiel 37, which is


Conclusion: A probably ignorant person somewhere on the internet.

ETA: He does get some basics right, e.g. how quarks make up protons, neutrons and mesons.

ETA: Also "the language of high level theoretical physics" is called mathematics together with coherent English descriptions.

To you as an Atheist....
you would tend to take it that way... but as you run into more and more evidence for non-linear time......... think about the probable implications!

Non-linear time implies a Creator so powerful that they can recreate all of us...... without even making it clear to us that we have been resurrected...... and given another chance to live out our lives......... and grow into the mind set that we can make it into heaven...... For the record near death experiencer Bob Jones was shown that only two percent of us can go into heaven immediately after death so all of us..... both Atheists and Christians.... we have a lot to learn.

Near death experiencer Mellen Benedict who was an Atheist at the time of his NDE reports going right up to the Being of Light of NDE fame and asking question after question after question...... and all of his questions were answered brilliantly......... Mellen Benedict though an Atheist...... assumed that the brilliant light he saw as his consciousness left his body..... .surely must be as nice as some of his professors and teachers.... So Atheist Mellen Benedict asked him questions.... . whereas on the other hand.... many Christians see the being of light...... feel guilt and shame.... and try to hide.


Ezekiel 37:1 (KJV)

Eze 37:1

¶
The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,

And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.

.......

Eze 37:10

So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

 

[DennisTate]

In all fairness, the pages are made of sub-atomic particles, held together by sub-atomic forces.

Indeed...... and the explanation for a Theistic version of the Cyclic Model of the Universe....... that is somewhat similar to chapter 13 of Stephen Hawking's Universe.....
that was given to Atheist Mellen Benedict......
can play a huge role in the transformation of Theoretical Physics.


Mellen-Thomas Benedict's Near-Death Experience

I was in pre creation, before the Big Bang. I had crossed over the beginning of time / the First Word/the First vibration. I was in the Eye of Creation. I felt as if I was touching the Face of God. It was not a religious feeling. Simply I was at one with Absolute Life and Consciousness. When I say that I could see or perceive forever, I mean that I could experience all of creation generating itself. It was without beginning and without end. That’s a mind-expanding thought, isn’t it? Scientists perceive the Big Bang as a single event that created the Universe. I saw during my life after death experience that the Big Bang is only one of an infinite number of Big Bangs creating Universes endlessly and simultaneously. The only images that even come close in human terms would be those created by super computers using fractal geometry equations.

The ancients knew of this. They said God had periodically created new Universes by breathing out, and recreated other Universes by breathing in. These epochs were called Yugas. Modern science called this the Big Bang. I was in absolute, pure consciousness. I could see or perceive all the Big Bangs or Yugas creating and recreating themselves. Instantly I entered into them all simultaneously. I saw that each and every little piece of creation has the power to create. It is very difficult to try to explain this. I am still speechless about this.

It took me years after I returned from my near-death experience to assimilate any words at all for the Void experience. I can tell you this now: the Void is less than nothing, yet more than everything that is! The Void is absolute zero; chaos forming all possibilities. It is Absolute Consciousness; much more than even Universal Intelligence. The Void is the vacuum or nothingness between all physical manifestations. The SPACE between atoms and their components. Modern science has begun to study this space between everything. They call it Zero point. Whenever they try to measure it, their instruments go off the scale, or to infinity, so to speak. They have no way, as of yet, to measure infinity accurately. There is more of the zero space in your own body and the Universe than anything else!

 

[RealityCheck01]

To you as an Atheist....
....

To me as a person who can read, I read a lie about Ezekiel 37 and an ignorant person spouting rubbish.
23 April 2018 DennisTate: The signatures of a crank in your quote (word salad, ignorance, a lie about Ezekiel 37)

24 April 2018 DennisTate: A lie that a Mellen Benedict saw visions related to Ezekiel 37:1 (KJV) (no "valley which was full of bones", etc.) when he saw light.

 

[RealityCheck01]

Mellen-Thomas Benedict's NDE a skeptical look
A small problem is that he had this experience in 1982 and has been making a living from selling merchandise based on it ever since. That includes what looks like quack light machines. Light therapy is valid medicine when backed by evidence.

A major problem is that he is deluded, e.g. claims to see 400 years into the future. Read his web site (I will not support it with a link but it is easy to find).

There are doubts about him having cancer at all. No documents exist. No statements from his doctors. PMH Atwater claimed to have seen his x-rays which were then "conveniently" lost. She is not a doctor.

A probable delusion of being given the crank Cleve Backster's name during his NDE. Benedict states that he was well read (a "self described "information freak"") and that Backster was active during the late 1960's - before 1982.

The "experts" he cites do not have any evidence about his (we have to put supposed!) NDE. They are Kenneth Ring and Atwater - NDE advocates who are obviously biased - and Lee Pulos (a psychologist).

 

[Kaon]

Thank you for this excellent reply...........
The connection to Ezekiel 37 happens when we combine this basic idea with information from near death experience accounts.... that could be about other time lines..... that may have already occurred.

If.... what near death experiencer Dannion Brinkley was shown that sounds like another time line..... then the implication is that you and I....... .have gone through an Ezekiel 37 event...... we have been resurrected..... into a new time line..... in which we can delay, and delay and delay and delay...... the fulfillment of the mark of the beast that occurred well before 2018.... in that other time line.

I see. I am very, very careful to call these "rooms" timelines, because I do believe there is one universe with one unique stream. However, what you describe is what I would call inter-dimensional.

"In my Father's house there are many rooms... I go and prepare one for you."

These "rooms" are, in my mathematical and philosophical opinion, dimensions. If you think of a glass jar with marbles, each marble is a dimension that has its own observable characteristics and patterns. The math is the same (since it is sacred to the Most High,) but the application of that math (physics) depends on perception. Since we would all be perfected, we would know how to perfectly apply our operations.

I say all that to hit your point about time - to which I would like to point out is completely arbitrary on this plane of existence. It is derived from an arbitrary frequency related to hyperfine transitions in relatively stable heavy atoms. The idea of time is likely just for our convenience - so that we can experience a sequence of events and understand perspective.

Time may also be a psychological consequence of being dead, which is why NDEs - whether the person went to hell or heaven - don't experience time, as it were.

 

[RealityCheck01]

I say all that to hit your point about time - to which I would like to point out is completely arbitrary on this plane of existence. It is derived from an arbitrary frequency related to hyperfine transitions in relatively stable heavy atoms.

I think you are talking about timekeeping as in atomic clocks, not time itself. Time is not arbitrary in science. It is a fundamental part of spacetime.

The main mistake DennisTate is making is not learning about the multi-universe concept enough to make correct statements about it. For example the QCD connection is the many-worlds interpretation (MWI) of quantum mechanics. That is one of many equally valid interpretations. A fundamental multi-universe property is that travel between the universes is impossible. A fundamental property of MWI is that an observer is always changing "rooms".