MSNBC banned from Rittenhouse trial

[bekkilyn]

There were 5 charges, intentional murder was one. The judge allowed for lesser charges to be considered.

I don't support those rioter, but I don't support vigilantism either.

And the jury had to deliberate on each of them individually and found him not guilty on all five.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Yes, but how tight is the law regarding self protection?

I am sure this will be debated and discussed for quite a while.

Edit to add, this is why I say that:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/11/16/rittenhouse-trial-self-defense/

No one disputed that Kyle Rittenhouse, now 18 years old, shot three men and killed two of them during turbulent protests in Kenosha, Wis., after the shooting of a Black man by a White police officer. And it is well known that the central issue of his trial was whether Rittenhouse had a valid self-defense claim. But the prosecution faced a difficult challenge from the start — as the result of the trial, an acquittal on all charges, made clear.


Contrary to what many people may have thought, Rittenhouse didn’t have to prove that he was acting in justifiable self-defense. Rather, the state had to disprove at least one legal element of his self-defense claim, and do so beyond a reasonable doubt. That was a tall order, and it made the verdict legally defensible, despite the sharp complaints that followed..... Rittenhouse’s acquittal will surely lead to calls to change defensive-force laws to make it harder for defendants like him to prevail. But such changes could have unintended consequences that reformers may come to regret — punishing more sympathetic defendants who use force to save their own lives.
​

 

[Peter J Barban]

Commandment #6: You shall not kill. NET translator's note: “The verb רָצַח (ratsakh) refers to the premeditated or accidental taking of the life of another human being; it includes any unauthorized killing (it is used for the punishment of a murderer, but that would not be included in the prohibition). This commandment teaches the sanctity of all human life.

Rittenhouse killed two people and he will have to answer to God for taking those lives. Juries, lawyers, and judges are fallible but God is not.

The law of Wisconsin authorizes Rittenhouse to kill in self-defense. The jury has now confirmed his authorization.

Likewise, the law of common sense says "don't provoke a man with an AR-15 into self-defense.

 

[Ligurian]

And the jury had to deliberate on each of them individually and found him not guilty on all five.

And I agree with the second item in your signature block, too.

 

[Ligurian]

Wanted to put this on Current Event's but so far nobody is writing News Articles about it.

Thanks for the thread.
(And thank God you didn't bury it in a denomination-specific forum-area.)

I don't pay much attention to the news, but someone who thought a guilty verdict would start the war brought it up to me. In actuality, the war was already going on when Rittenhouse responded to it.

Riot declared in Portland as Kyle Rittenhouse acquittal sparks some protests

I'm guessing these will also be called "mostly peaceful protest" by media.

 

[LeGato]

I said "If". I also did not see actual tears when he broke down.

He had no business being in that situation. He is a minor with no military or police training carrying a big gun. He should not have been walking alone with that gun. Whoever recruited him should have been more protective of those who came to help. Someone should have been with him. When do you ever see police all alone in a riot?? And they are trained and adults.

I said "If". I also did not see actual tears when he broke down.

....heartless.

 

[LeGato]

I saw the facial expressions. No actual tears. That was for himself, not the ones who died.




No, his being there was not thrown out. The gun charge was thrown out.
In the trial, the brothers who ran the car dealership said they did not ask him to be there. Kyle never had to be there in the first place.



They swore to tell the truth. They testified that they did not ask Kyle to be there, or anyone else. There talk with Kyle was about fundraising.



Other than it was after curfew for a 17 year old, and he was carrying a big gun and not to hunt.




Kyle walked by the National Guard as he left the dealership.



Which is why a 17 yo untrained boy should not have naively put himself in that position with a big gun.



I think many things in this trial needs looked at. The judge's decision that the men killed could not be "victims" but could be called "looters" or "rioters" was interesting.

Welp, trial's over, and the U.S. Court of Law has spoken. And those in their delegated positions have judged Kyle Not Guilty. Doesn't matter what you, I, or anyone else thinks at this point.

 

[FreeinChrist]

....heartless.

No, not heartless on my part.

Now he went right off to Tucker Carlson, right? All smiles....
Did you see and hear the dead men's families? There really was nothing to rejoice over at all.
Kyle is young and naive and was ill-prepared for what he put himself into.

I fear vigilante wanna-be types will be more bold and cause more death. Dealing with looters and rioters really needs to be the job of trained officers and not 17 year old boys.

 

[LeGato]

Now he went right off to Tucker Carlson, right? All smiles....

True. Everybody seems to want a piece of him now, and it's not saying much for Tucker or Fox in that respect. Kyle shouldn't have jumped into that.

Did you see and hear the dead men's families? There really was nothing to rejoice over at all.

Good point. The only one I've heard speak out is the skateboarder's girlfriend, so far.

I fear vigilante wanna-be types will be more bold and cause more death. Dealing with looters and rioters really needs to be the job of trained officers and not 17 year old boys.

Yes, I do too. For the judge, jury and Kyle's sake, for starters.

 

[Ligurian]

I said "If". I also did not see actual tears when he broke down.

He had no business being in that situation. He is a minor with no military or police training carrying a big gun. He should not have been walking alone with that gun. Whoever recruited him should have been more protective of those who came to help. Someone should have been with him. When do you ever see police all alone in a riot?? And they are trained and adults.

"A well-ordered Militia is necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to own and bear arms will not be infringed."

Did you think this militia was ever trained by government people? How old were the militia members? Did they need to be "recruited" (as you put it) to provide for the common defense... with "big guns" (as you put it)? Did they even need to be paid to support and defend the defenseless and the needy?

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Isn't Rittenhouse a member of "we the people"?

And why aren't you complaining that Rittenhouse was washing paint off of buildings? Surely there's some government agency to whom that task belongs, as well. Because, as far as I could see of the riots, the people paid to protect and serve weren't being allowed to do their job.

Thank God for the random acts of kindness... Personally, I'm betting Rittenhouse is Christian... as well as being (gasp) white.

 

[FreeinChrist]

"A well-ordered Militia is necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to own and bear arms will not be infringed."

Did you think this militia was ever trained by government people? How old were the militia members? Did they need to be "recruited" (as you put it) to provide for the common defense... with "big guns" (as you put it)? Did they even need to be paid to support and defend the defenseless and the needy?

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Isn't Rittenhouse a member of "we the people"?

And why aren't you complaining that Rittenhouse was washing paint off of buildings? Surely there's some government agency to whom that task belongs, as well. Because, as far as I could see of the riots, the people paid to protect and serve weren't being allowed to do their job.

Thank God for the random acts of kindness... Personally, I'm betting Rittenhouse is Christian... as well as being (gasp) white.

Your whole post smacks of gun-grabbing... which is unconstitutional in all of its forms. Some might even call unconstitutional activities treason, which is why Communists used to be rounded up in these United States.

You are making assumptions about what I wrote.

Most states have a militia. They call it the National Guard.
Kyle is an immature individual who put himself in a situation he could not control. Going to a riot and walking around with a AR- 15 is unwise.
I don't know if he is a Christian - but I doubt it.

 

[Ligurian]

True. Everybody seems to want a piece of him now, and it's not saying much for Tucker or Fox in that respect. Kyle shouldn't have jumped into that.

Agreed. If the media gets their tusks in you, then they control both sides of the dialogue... and you.

(beautiful British Blue, btw)

 

[Ligurian]

Most states have a militia. They call it the National Guard.
Kyle is an immature individual who put himself in a situation he could not control. Going to a riot and walking around with a AR- 15 is unwise.
I don't know if he is a Christian - but I doubt it.

Nope; the National Guard is a hireling,* being paid to follow the orders of people who obviously don't always have WeThePeople's best interests at heart.

The people who care about their neighbors certainly have as much right to walk around with guns as do the AntiFa rioters who target them.

For you to call Rittenhouse immature (as though you know him) is incomprehensible, at best. Did you see any of the videos from the event? I was impressed with his obvious training, while you... You claim not to have seen his tears of joy, and now you say that you doubt that he's Christian... Seems like you would have judged him guilty.

________________
* John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
=============
I'm not saying that all people being paid to do a job are able to be subverted, but some most certainly can be.

Being paid to follow orders...
versus
protecting your neighbors just because they're your neighbors...
are not the same thing.

 

[Ligurian]

No, not heartless on my part.

Now he went right off to Tucker Carlson, right? All smiles....
Did you see and hear the dead men's families? There really was nothing to rejoice over at all.
Kyle is young and naive and was ill-prepared for what he put himself into.

I fear vigilante wanna-be types will be more bold and cause more death. Dealing with looters and rioters really needs to be the job of trained officers and not 17 year old boys.

The dead men... you're sorry for them and the families they abandoned when they decided to become AntiFa... seriously? Did their families not know the crimes these men were going to do?

Do you know about the people who are calling the right fascists?

International Committee of the Fourth International (ICFI)
Donald Trump and fascist right celebrate acquittal of Kyle Rittenhouse

Regarding your epithet "vigilante"...
"a member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily (as when the processes of law are viewed as inadequate)"
--Merriam Webster

Was it proved in court that this is what Rittenhouse belonged to and did? No.

"There is a long Anglo-American tradition of fear of standing armies, professional forces that serve during peacetime. It was widely believed that standing armies gave the government the ability to forcefully usurp power and violate the rights and liberties of the people. Standing armies stood in sharp contrast to militias, which were military forces made up of local volunteers who only served during times of war. Militias fit into the republican ideal of citizens defending their own land and freedom. Militias were thought to inspire and nurture republican virtues of independence and liberty, whereas standing armies were thought to make citizens overly dependent on professional soldiers."
--The Federalist Papers, Appendix

BTW, your military doesn't consider 17 too young to go to war.

"Here is a table that explains the basic age groups the United States Army, Air Force, Coast Guard, Marine Corps, and Navy allows:"
Military Age Limits For 2021 - Operation Military Kids

 

[FreeinChrist]

Nope; the National Guard is a hireling,* being paid to follow the orders of people who obviously don't always have WeThePeople's best interests at heart.

The people who care about their neighbors certainly have as much right to walk around with guns as do the AntiFa rioters who target them.

For you to call Rittenhouse immature (as though you know him) is incomprehensible, at best. Did you see any of the videos from the event? I was impressed with his obvious training, while you... You claim not to have seen his tears of joy, and now you say that you doubt that he's Christian... Seems like you would have judged him guilty.

________________
* John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
=============
I'm not saying that all people being paid to do a job are able to be subverted, but some most certainly can be.

Being paid to follow orders...
versus
protecting your neighbors just because they're your neighbors...
are not the same thing.

Again, you are making assumptions in your post. Please direct your comments to the content and not the person.
As to not seeing tears of joy....I wasn't talking about when he got the verdict, but when he was testifying.
I disagree with you about the militia but that is not the topic in this thread.

 

[FreeinChrist]

The dead men... you're sorry for them and the families they abandoned when they decided to become AntiFa... seriously? Did their families not know the crimes these men were going to do?

BTW, the military doesn't consider 17 too young for war.

"Here is a table that explains the basic age groups the United States Army, Air Force, Coast Guard, Marine Corps, and Navy allows:"
Military Age Limits For 2021 - Operation Military Kids

I am not happy that the men died even if I did not like what they did. Not going to smile about it.


Eze 33:11
“Say to them, ‘As I live!' declares the Lord [fn]GOD, ‘I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?'

And their families are mourning.

 

[Ligurian]

Again, you are making assumptions in your post. Please direct your comments to the content and not the person.
As to not seeing tears of joy....I wasn't talking about when he got the verdict, but when he was testifying.
I disagree with you about the militia but that is not the topic in this thread.

I will if you will... including the person Rittenhouse.
I didn't watch the testimony, as I've already implied. I did, however, see videos of what happened: Lawyers controlling the dialogue simply cannot compare.
Yes, it is about the militia... which you seem to think is the government-run-National-Guard... and I say that never entered the minds of the people who gave these United States "A Republic, if you can keep it." The AntiFa rioters needed to be defended against, and apparently the ThinBlueLine was being handcuffed by the "I'll sue" patrol. (This same aspect is why health care is what it is today.) Follow the money is always the answer, these days. Money is the new nobility that allows thugs to act above the Law.

 

[IWalkAlone]

"Many other people" didn't show up with a loaded military rifle that was then used to kill others. Rittenhouse shot and killed others; he is a vigilante, not law enforcement. He is a prime example of an untrained, unqualified person taking the law into their own hands.

Kyle defended himself. It was lawful.

 

[IWalkAlone]

If my kid is attacked by a child molester or fellon with a gun, I hope democrats allow him to defend himself

 

[Ligurian]

I am not happy that the men died even if I did not like what they did. Not going to smile about it.


Eze 33:11
“Say to them, ‘As I live!' declares the Lord [fn]GOD, ‘I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?'

And their families are mourning.

Do you think the families of Joseph Rosenbaum, Anthony Huber, and Gaige Grosskreutz... knew they had criminal records? One of them was a convicted sex offender, if that matters to anyone but me. And that particular riot started with Jacob Blake... and the warrant out for his arrest.

Are you seeing the pattern at all?
______________
Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.