[moved] Where does God's Wrath begin in Revelation?

Timtofly

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Verse 20 is talking about the image and the false prophet. The beast taken is the image brought to life. Notice that the false prophet is identified as coming before him. The false prophet was introduced in chapter 13, before Satan and before the image (the beast). Satan was not cast into the lake of fire. He was bound for 1000 years first. The false prophet and the image brought to life never return. Now how can you get 3 beings out of two beast and one image? None of them are called Satan. But only two are cast into the lake of fire. Does Satan not figure in chapter 13 at all? Who has been given all the authority? Who keeps coming in and out of the land? If a human can only come out of the sea, the false prophet the only beast named has to be the one coming out of the Sea. The other unnamed beast, is the image. It is the unholy attempt by Satan to create his own type of humanity. Satan has questioned God’s own image, the sons of God for the last 6000 years. He only gets one last attempt of this 6000 year period to make a fool of himself.
 
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Douggg

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Verse 20 is talking about the image and the false prophet. The beast taken is the image brought to life.
Actually not. The beast in verse 20 is the end times person, king 7 who will have become king 8.

__________________________________________________________

But you are close, regarding the image of the beast. A statue that will come alive and speak.

What makes that image come alive and speak, will be because Satan will be incarnating the statue image. In order to be worshiped.

Envision this if you can, to reconcile what happens to that statue image incarnated by Satan, and the judgment on Satan in Ezekiel 28.12-19.

At Jesus's return, the great statue image will be on the temple mount out in the open where probably the dome of the rock now stands, where the false prophet will have gathered people or forced people to gather to bow.

And them who refuse to bow will be killed.

At Jesus's return, by the brightness of his coming the outer facade of the great statue image will be set ablaze and turned to ashes...

Exposing Satan in plain view by all in the armies, and the kings of the earth, packed around Jerusalem, including them who over the years who had bowed and worshiped the great statue image.

It will be the fulfillment of Ezekiel 28 which is about Satan's demise as a terror - which he will be to the inhabitors of the earth when he is cast down having only a time, times, half time left.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


In Revelation 20 after the great statue image is turned to ashes exposing Satan, he will be bound and cast into the bottomless pit.

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
 
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Timtofly

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What Jesus stops is the great tribulation. Which the great tribulation will last 1335 days. The 7 year 70th week is not "stopped", but completed by Jesus's Return.
There is no 1335 days mentioned in Revelation.
 
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Douggg

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There is no 1335 days mentioned in Revelation.
No, there is not. The abomination of desolation referred to by Jesus in Matthew 24:15 as being what begins the great tribulation - is in Daniel 12:11-12, in end times, Daniel 12:4.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


The reason for a chart like mine is to reconcile all of the timeframes and major events. The 1335 days and the 1290 days are on my chart. If you don't like my chart, make or begin making one of you own. Whereby you think it through.



upload_2020-7-1_17-9-21.jpeg
 
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5thKingdom

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. A statue that will come alive and speak.


That is hilarious.
You have NO IDEA what the "image" represents so you
put forth your "private interpretation" that it is a statue,
without a SHRED of Biblical support.

Each "Kingdom of Heaven" had it's own Beast.
Because the Beast represents Satan's Kingdom.
There was a Beast in the Pre-Flood Kingdom
There was a Beast in the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2]
There was a Beast in the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"... however
he was "bound at the Cross until the Great Commission was finished.

Likewise each Kingdom had an "image"...
you have NO IDEA what the "image" is... it is not a statue,
it is the Gospel of that Kingdom. Get it? The "image" is a
reflection of the Beast. You are so clueless.

Likewise each Kingdom had a "mark of the Beast"...
the "mark of the Beast" was on those preaching the
Gospel of the Beast. It was not a bar code on their
hand or forehead... that is Hal Lindsey nonsense.
When it says you cannot "buy or sell" it is saying
you cannot preach that Gospel without the "mark.

Is it NEWS to you that preaching the Gospel is shown
as "buying and selling"? Really?

Rev 18:11-13
And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her;
[over the Beast] for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of
pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine
wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of
most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And
cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine,
and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses,
and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

The Kingdom of Satan is the Beast
The "image" of the Beast is the Gospel (it reflects the Beast)
The "mark" is the ability to "buy and sell" that Gospel
The buying and selling includes the SOULS OF MEN.

You are so clueless it is PAINFUL to witness.
Fortunately for you you have a chart and
"ignorance is bliss".

.
 
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5thKingdom

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No, there is not. The abomination of desolation referred to by Jesus in Matthew 24:15 as being what begins the great tribulation - is in Daniel 12:11-12, in end times, Daniel 12:4.


Again you are so clueless it is PAINFUL to see.

The Revelation Beast is the SAME period as the Great Tribulaton
and the SAME period as Daniel's Fourth Beast and the SAME
period as the experiences of the "ten virgins" of Matthew 25:1
and the SAME experiences of the ten "kings" of Daniel 2:44

Now... HOW in the world do we know this Biblical Truth?

The answer is simple. In EACH CASE those PEOPLE are the
people living on earth when the Lord Returns. DUH!

If they are the people living on earth when the Lord Returns
that means the all represent the SAME PEOPLE.
This is not rocket science friend. This is just
harmonizing Scripture with Scripture.

.
 
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Timtofly

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The false prophet is yet to come. He is not a king.

Yet? There is no other passage about Satan's time but chapter 13.

I think your point is that Satan the dragon in Revelation 12 is also the scarlet colored beast in Revelation 17.

And in Revelation 17, 12 and 13, that beast has the 7 heads and ten horns.

Therefore, in your rationale, the beast in Revelation 13 coming out of the sea, likewise having 7 heads and ten horns must be Satan. Is that your rationale?

If so, the reason that rationale is flawed is because there is another entity called the beast in Revelation 17:8 is in the bottomless pit, until it ascends out. That beast is obviously not Satan, because in Revelation 17:8a, he was and is not ; a way of saying no longer alive. And exists in the bottomless pit as disembodied spirit.

And that beast is still in the bottomless pit in Revelation 12 as well, which that chapter has the full 7 years in it, by adding the 1260 days to the time, times, half time. The seven heads have their crowns though indicating king 7 has come to power before the 7 years begin.

In Revelation 13, one of the heads has been wounded, king 7. And we can conclude because that killed and comeback to life head has become the beast of Revelation 17:11 - that the beast in Revelation 17:8a has ascended out of the bottomless pit to possess the end times person. The beast in Revelation 17:8a, I maintain is the original serpent in the garden of Eden (not Satan) but the original beast himself. Currently a disembodied spirit in the bottomless pit.
No, the harlot is not a beast. Satan is the beast the harlot leaves the Lamb for.

Satan is an angel, not a disembodied spirit. Is there a verse other than the one about him using people who are and are not throughout history? Satan has always been an angel. An angel who took on the form of a dragon, who was cursed by God to loose it's feet and identity. Satan comes and goes between heaven, earth, and under the earth more often than any created being. It will not be until the sounding of the 7th Trumpet, when Satan is banned from heaven for life. Revelation 12:7-13

7 Next there was a battle in heaven — Mikha’el and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
8 But it was not strong enough to win, so that there was no longer any place for them in heaven.
9 The great dragon was thrown out, that ancient serpent, also known as the Devil and Satan [the Adversary], the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying,

“Now have come God’s victory, power and kingship,
and the authority of his Messiah;
because the Accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them day and night before God,
has been thrown out!

11 “They defeated him because of the Lamb’s blood
and because of the message of their witness.
Even when facing death
they did not cling to life.

12 “Therefore, rejoice, heaven and you who live there!
But woe to you, land and sea,
for the Adversary has come down to you,
and he is very angry, because he knows that his time is short!”
13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled down to the earth, he went in pursuit of the woman who had given birth to the male child.

This happens in accordance with the 1260 days in verse 6. Satan had full access until this one 3.5 year period that intersects with the Second Coming week. Satan now, will get full access to only those on earth, until the short season, at the end of the 1000 years. Those singing the song, sing, "Woe, to them on earth."

The bottom line is Satan is viewed as the beast in Revelation 12 and Revelation 17. Because the actual beast does not ascend out of the bottomless pit until there are 42 months left, there about, to possess the end times man.

The beast in Revelation 13:1, aside from being a kingdom, will be a man - not Satan.

And in Revelation 13:18, the number of the beast is the number of a man.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The name of that man is Adam. The representative of all humanity, who are all his descendants. This beast is Satan's image of mankind.

The first beast is the false prophet.
The second beast is Satan.
The third beast is a false Adam, who given life claims to be mankind's technological messianic salvation.
 
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5thKingdom

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What Jesus stops is the great tribulation. Which the great tribulation will last 1335 days. The 7 year 70th week is not "stopped", but completed by Jesus's Return.


So you say that Jesus stops the Great Tribulation
And we know that Jesus stops the Revelation Beast
And we know that Jesus stops Daniel's Fourth Beast
And we know that Jesus stops the "ten virgins" (with the Final Harvest)

And yet you STILL cannot admit that the PEOPLE living in each
or these periods above are the SAME PEOPLE...
that is just amazing.

.
 
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5thKingdom

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The false prophet was a king. That false prophet offered up a pig in the temple in Jerusalem. Revelation 13:1-12
.


That is hilarous... a pig!

Revelation is ended in chapter 6 and chapter 11 and chapter 18
and chapter 19 and it is ended with the Seventh Trumpet and the
end of the world. Did the end of the world happen when a pig
was sacrificed in the Temple. I guess we all missed the end of
the world. Oh well.

.
 
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Timtofly

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Actually not. The beast in verse 20 is the end times person, king 7 who will have become king 8.

__________________________________________________________

But you are close, regarding the image of the beast. A statue that will come alive and speak.

What makes that image come alive and speak, will be because Satan will be incarnating the statue image. In order to be worshiped.

Envision this if you can, to reconcile what happens to that statue image incarnated by Satan, and the judgment on Satan in Ezekiel 28.12-19.

At Jesus's return, the great statue image will be on the temple mount out in the open where probably the dome of the rock now stands, where the false prophet will have gathered people or forced people to gather to bow.

And them who refuse to bow will be killed.

At Jesus's return, by the brightness of his coming the outer facade of the great statue image will be set ablaze and turned to ashes...

Exposing Satan in plain view by all in the armies, and the kings of the earth, packed around Jerusalem, including them who over the years who had bowed and worshiped the great statue image.

It will be the fulfillment of Ezekiel 28 which is about Satan's demise as a terror - which he will be to the inhabitors of the earth when he is cast down having only a time, times, half time left.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


In Revelation 20 after the great statue image is turned to ashes exposing Satan, he will be bound and cast into the bottomless pit.

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
There are no kings, not even Presidents involved. The king of Tyre was burned to ashes. That was then. This is now.
 
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5thKingdom

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Be nice now! The bible tells us in other verses that the second beast is the "False Prophet." I think you knew this. At least, I hope you did!

Looks like the Beast and the False Prophet
are DIFFERENT people here:


Rev_16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Looks like the Beast and the False Prophet
are DIFFERENT people here:


Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Looks like the Beast and the False Prophet
are DIFFERENT people here:


Rev_20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Really... how totally clueless are you and Douggg...
when you cannot understand the SCRIPTURE says
the Beast and False Prophet are DIFFERENT????

Pleeeese!


.
 
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Douggg

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Satan is an angel, not a disembodied spirit. Is there a verse other than the one about him using people who are and are not throughout history? Satan has always been an angel.
In Revelation 17:8 there are two principals, called the beast, used by Satan. They are both sell-outs to Satan in return to rule the nations. The first principal was the original serpent beast in the garden, now a disembodied spirit in the bottomless pit.

The second principle is the end times person who will sell out Satan to rule the nations.

Satan offered the same deal to Jesus, that all of the kingdoms of the world would become those of Jesus, if he would only worship Satan. Jesus refused that deal.
 
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Timtofly

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No, there is not. The abomination of desolation referred to by Jesus in Matthew 24:15 as being what begins the great tribulation - is in Daniel 12:11-12, in end times, Daniel 12:4.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


The reason for a chart like mine is to reconcile all of the timeframes and major events. The 1335 days and the 1290 days are on my chart. If you don't like my chart, make or begin making one of you own. Whereby you think it through.



View attachment 280052
John did not reconcile Daniel's extra 30 days, nor told why they are shortened by 25 days.

Perhaps those times deal with how the calendars are different? Putting them in the end is more bold than even John the beloved disciple dared to do.
 
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5thKingdom

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Sorry, but Daniel did not write that the 4th kingdom was diverse from the other three. That is human imagination at work. The meaning is just as stated: diverse from ALL kingdoms on the earth.


See if you can hold TWO thoughts at the same time.

(1) Daniel tells us the FOUR KINGDOMS represent the
FOUR KINGDOMS that arise on the Earth:

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms,
and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and
break it in pieces.

(2) Contrary to your "private interpretation" Daniel DOES
tell us the Fourth Beast is diverse DIFFERENT than the other
Kingdoms (which are three other Kingdoms) This is not hard...
assuming you can count to four.

.
 
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Douggg

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John did not reconcile Daniel's extra 30 days, nor told why they are shortened by 25 days.

Perhaps those times deal with how the calendars are different? Putting them in the end is more bold than even John the beloved disciple dared to do.
I don't understand your post. What you are trying to communicate?
 
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5thKingdom

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In Revelation 17:8 there are two principals, called the beast, used by Satan. They are both sell-outs to Satan in return to rule the nations. The first principal was the original serpent beast in the garden, now a disembodied spirit in the bottomless pit.

The second principle is the end times person who will sell out Satan to rule the nations.

Satan offered the same deal to Jesus, that all of the kingdoms of the world would become those of Jesus, if he would only worship Satan. Jesus refused that deal.


That is just hilarious... you have such a vivid imagination
you should be a screen writer in hollywood... you certainly
understand fiction.

The Revelation Beasts represent Daniel's Fourth Beast
(not the garden of Eden) and the Great Tribulation
(not the garden of Eden) and the Rule of the Anti-Christ
(not the garden of Eden) and Satan's "Little Season"
(not the garden of Eden)

You said:
The first principal was the original serpent beast in the garden, now a disembodied spirit in the bottomless pit.

You have absolutely NO SCRIPTURE to support that nonsense
and yet you are not even embarrassed to spout such garbage.
It is just amazing to see the delusion you have developed.

.
 
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Timtofly

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That is hilarous... a pig!

Revelation is ended in chapter 6 and chapter 11 and chapter 18
and chapter 19 and it is ended with the Seventh Trumpet and the
end of the world. Did the end of the world happen when a pig
was sacrificed in the Temple. I guess we all missed the end of
the world. Oh well.

.
Yes, you may laugh. God did not.

Daniel's false prophet was a king who sacrificed a pig on the alter.
 
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5thKingdom

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And each one is a single person.

But the claim is they are the SAME PERSON.

The term "Beast" can be used for the Anti-Christ
OR for the followers of the Anti-Christ... so you cannot
say (Biblically) that it is a single person.

Hint: Beast = Kingdom
Kingdom = a lot of people

.
 
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