[MOVED] End of the world predictions are a dime a dozen and always wrong. :)

[eclipsenow]

When I initially guessed she would be 'whacky' because she was a futurist, I had no idea it would be this bad. I doubt she's even saved with views like these.

 

[Tobias Andersson]

First i know the book of revelation from what you wrote to the end, not al but much of it, at least the most important parts, and still learning. Seccond Jesus is not God hes is Lord, as apostel stated from start untill it was changed around year 350 or so. 99% of the bible is clear that it says Jesus is lord, and Jesus neaver ever says hes God, old testament predicts that you people will call him god, but it says that Gods kingdom rest on Jesus christ. Thing is when people start to go away from bible, it makes it harder to understand. when you say Jesus is God it kinda confuses me, Couse God is his father, and Jesus is his son. They have difrent work things to do, Jesus saves us and thats clear in John leathers about we shuld not turn ourself into shame when he arives...

Trust me on book of revelation, when i started to belive, al i did read was the book of revelation. And the truth cant usaly be found clerly on the net, and those that understand and knows al about book of revelation knows why.

What she points out is that Jesus christ become Jesus christ when he went up to heaven siting on Gods right side, thats when he become lord of heaven and universe. When he where born he where human, you must make a difrence on the lords body, couse he where human and now hes lord couse of doin Gods will. Imagene if he did not, as he asked God let this pass him, he went truw it for some reason, and became our savior. Just think for a moment, what wuld happend if he did not do Gods will, if God passed Jesus cup. What was Jesus gift for doin Gods will. Whats our gifts of doin Gods will, and that i dont know what kind of hard tests people have as chosen on this earth. Not sure if the diciples understod realy when Jesus had to take the cup and die on the cross, but after when he rose from death, they understod. Same can be with other people that are chosen, we dont understand Gods plan, wery strange things happend al the time. Peter went against Jesus, and Jesus said go away satan, Peter where apostle. We others here are just casual people. Be wery carefull what you say about these chosen people, al i have to say.

 

[Postvieww]

First i know the book of revelation from what you wrote to the end, not al but much of it, at least the most important parts, and still learning. Seccond Jesus is not God hes is Lord, as apostel stated from start untill it was changed around year 350 or so. 99% of the bible is clear that it says Jesus is lord, and Jesus neaver ever says hes God, old testament predicts that you people will call him god, but it says that Gods kingdom rest on Jesus christ. Thing is when people start to go away from bible, it makes it harder to understand. when you say Jesus is God it kinda confuses me, Couse God is his father, and Jesus is his son. They have difrent work things to do, Jesus saves us and thats clear in John leathers about we shuld not turn ourself into shame when he arives...

Trust me on book of revelation, when i started to belive, al i did read was the book of revelation. And the truth cant usaly be found clerly on the net, and those that understand and knows al about book of revelation knows why.

What she points out is that Jesus christ become Jesus christ when he went up to heaven siting on Gods right side, thats when he become lord of heaven and universe. When he where born he where human, you must make a difrence on the lords body, couse he where human and now hes lord couse of doin Gods will. Imagene if he did not, as he asked God let this pass him, he went truw it for some reason, and became our savior. Just think for a moment, what wuld happend if he did not do Gods will, if God passed Jesus cup. What was Jesus gift for doin Gods will. Whats our gifts of doin Gods will, and that i dont know what kind of hard tests people have as chosen on this earth. Not sure if the diciples understod realy when Jesus had to take the cup and die on the cross, but after when he rose from death, they understod. Same can be with other people that are chosen, we dont understand Gods plan, wery strange things happend al the time. Peter went against Jesus, and Jesus said go away satan, Peter where apostle. We others here are just casual people. Be wery carefull what you say about these chosen people, al i have to say.

You really need to deal with the fact she is teaching Jesus was not born of a virgin. That doctrine is satanic any way you try to soft pedal it.

 

[Tobias Andersson]

Um i just love her eva, she got more balls than men haha... i looked it al about that, so cool to learn the truth about the bible, look things up before stating things please.

 

[Luke17:37]

First i know the book of revelation from what you wrote to the end, not al but much of it, at least the most important parts, and still learning. Seccond Jesus is not God hes is Lord, as apostel stated from start untill it was changed around year 350 or so. 99% of the bible is clear that it says Jesus is lord, and Jesus neaver ever says hes God, old testament predicts that you people will call him god, but it says that Gods kingdom rest on Jesus christ. Thing is when people start to go away from bible, it makes it harder to understand. when you say Jesus is God it kinda confuses me, Couse God is his father, and Jesus is his son. They have difrent work things to do, Jesus saves us and thats clear in John leathers about we shuld not turn ourself into shame when he arives...

Trust me on book of revelation, when i started to belive, al i did read was the book of revelation. And the truth cant usaly be found clerly on the net, and those that understand and knows al about book of revelation knows why.

What she points out is that Jesus christ become Jesus christ when he went up to heaven siting on Gods right side, thats when he become lord of heaven and universe. When he where born he where human, you must make a difrence on the lords body, couse he where human and now hes lord couse of doin Gods will. Imagene if he did not, as he asked God let this pass him, he went truw it for some reason, and became our savior. Just think for a moment, what wuld happend if he did not do Gods will, if God passed Jesus cup. What was Jesus gift for doin Gods will. Whats our gifts of doin Gods will, and that i dont know what kind of hard tests people have as chosen on this earth. Not sure if the diciples understod realy when Jesus had to take the cup and die on the cross, but after when he rose from death, they understod. Same can be with other people that are chosen, we dont understand Gods plan, wery strange things happend al the time. Peter went against Jesus, and Jesus said go away satan, Peter where apostle. We others here are just casual people. Be wery carefull what you say about these chosen people, al i have to say.

Jesus is God. If he was not God, He would not be able to die for our sins. (If Jesus was a mere man, He would have been a sinner and would have been unable to offer Himself as a subsitute to pay the penalty for our sins.) He is not the Father, but He is God. There is one God who is three persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is a little confusing but the Bible makes it clear that there is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4), but the one God is three persons (Matthew 3:16-17, Matthew 28:19).

This is the gospel from the beginning:

God created a perfect world, including creating man, male and female, in His image.

Adam, the first man, (and his wife) sinned, and death was the penalty for sin (Genesis 2:17, Romans 6:23). Adam's whole race became sinners (Romans 5:12, Romans 3:23). We all deserve eternal death away from our holy Creator.

On the first day Adam sinned, God did two awesome things.

One, He promised a Savior, the Seed of the woman, who would crush tre head of the serpent (Genesis 3:15). Jesus is the Seed of the Woman. Because of His virgin birth (Isaiah 7:14, Luke 1:26-38), He did not inherit the sin nature the rest of us have. And beyond that, He never sinned while He walked on the earth these thirty-some years.

Two, He began to demonstrate the principle that the shedding of blood is necessary to cover sin when He made clothes of skin for Adam and Eve (by killing animals... the only way animals give up their skins). This principle is presented throughout the Old Testament, that the shedding of blood is necessary for the forgiveness of sins (Leviticus 17:11, Hebrews 9:22). But animal blood is just a foreshadowing of the effectual blood of the only sinless man - Jesus Christ.

We must turn from our sins and believe that Jesus died, was buried, and was raised on the third day, and because of this our sins can be forgiven if we ask Him to. Then, when the Father sees us, He will see the righteousness of Jesus clothing us. True faith will be reflected by a life characterized by obedience to Jesus. Many will say, "Lord, Lord," and He will say, "Depart from me; I never knew you."

Jesus is returning again in the flesh and He will bring righteousness and peace (the dismantling of the curse) but vengeance on those who hate Him.

I understand Revelation just fine, but Eva cannot since she rejects Jesus' divinity.

 

[Tobias Andersson]

Well casual and casual, ima disciple myself

 

[Luke17:37]

Trust me on book of revelation, when i started to belive, al i did read was the book of revelation. And the truth cant usaly be found clerly on the net, and those that understand and knows al about book of revelation knows why.

I cannot trust you or her. And there are a lot of lies on the Internet about Revelation (e.g., a Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church).

What she points out is that Jesus christ become Jesus christ when he went up to heaven siting on Gods right side, thats when he become lord of heaven and universe.

God is not created; God is Creator. Jesus has always existed; He just wrapped Himself in flesh when He came to the earth He made.

Micah 5:2
2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me
The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth are from of old,
From everlasting.”

Jesus is the Creator and Jesus is God (John 1:1-3, 14; Colossians 1:16) who was made flesh, so that He might reveal the Father to us, and that He might become the sinless Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29).

 

[Tobias Andersson]

Al you have done here is simplify serval words into one word. And in this case its not realy good at al. take chemestry, if people wuld start simplyfy things there. It wuld go wrong. now this is words of truth the bible, and there is an enemy of God, the world is gonna end some day. And it ends not couse people do not know or living by the truth. For the chosens sake it will end Jesus says i guess its a pain for them. I do understand you guys i bin there once in life, but i have experience, and many hours of discusions, real good life experiences to undestand something about this bible, and im only start to learn about many things. Instead of me running around explaining things, i sugest you take what i write now, do question things what you learn, and seek the truth. What i say will neaver do, if you dont wanna hear the truth, same where with the Jews that put Jesus on the cross. Bible says do not trow holy things to the dogs, you guys are acting a bit wierd even continues to do that after i explain truth what she writen. Your um... Questioning is endless it seams, enjoy the truth instead.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I'm with you Luke17: this woman sounds like she's lost the plot and is starting a cult, setting herself up as the only infallible reader of God's word, more reliable than the bible itself! Warning: danger Will Robinson!

ROFLOL! Thank you for the comic relief with the Lost In Space reference. And you are so right, run, don't walk from this so called prophetess.

Revelation 2:20
Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

1. she calls herself a prophetess
2. she teaches spiritual fornication telling people not to trust God's word when the word is God breathed.
3. Like my sister Luke 17 said she is not testing the spirit instructing her to see if it is from God.
4. she admits she does not use the Word of God for her false doctrine.And she says the Word is corrupt.
5.she has lost her way.. she needs to repent of this wickedness and realize that she has strayed from the path and she is leading others astray with her.

 

[Postvieww]

"For sure, Acts 26:12-18 and Acts 7:54-58 stand as direct fulfillments of Acts 1:11"


Acts 1:9-11

This passage describes Jesus’ ascension into heaven. This event has no relation to the event at Stephen’s stoning. In Acts 1 Jesus was taken up in a cloud in full view of His disciples. We are told in verse 11 when He returns it will be in like manner, Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:30.​

But what Prof Peter Bolt is arguing is that it is our assumption that Matt 24 is about Jesus return. Now that he's made a compelling argument from Daniel 7 that Jesus himself is quoting, we've got to prove that it's actually about Jesus return, not just assume it. After all, I doubt Jesus got Daniel 7 wrong! So why was he quoting it?

Daniel 7: 13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.


Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.


The above two passages are the same event. Jesus going up. Past


Rev. 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.


6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.


7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.



Rev 5:5-7 describes what happened when Jesus first arrived in heaven after His ascension.



Matt.24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Rev, 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


The above two passages are the same event. Jesus coming down. Future.


Very simply, Matt.24:30 is about Jesus return to the earth, because the tribes of the earth see Him coming in the clouds of heaven and mourn. This is again confirm in Rev. 1:7 “all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him”.


Jesus did not get Daniel 7 wrong He just affirmed it.

 

[eclipsenow]

Um i just love her eva, she got more balls than men haha... i looked it al about that, so cool to learn the truth about the bible, look things up before stating things please.

Except that the bible disagrees with everything she says, and 2000 years of church theology disagrees with everything she says. Only way out there cults have said some of the things she's saying.

 

[eclipsenow]

Matt.24:30....

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev, 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

The above two passages are the same event. Jesus coming down. Future. Very simply, Matt.24:30 is about Jesus return to the earth, because the tribes of the earth see Him coming in the clouds of heaven and mourn. This is again confirm in Rev. 1:7 “all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him”.
Jesus did not get Daniel 7 wrong He just affirmed it.
​

This is what Bolt says:

Does “the coming of the Son of Man” refer to the ‘final judgement’? Well, yes it does! From the perspective of Old Testament expectation, there was a final judgement to come at the end of time, and this was the context in which the Son of Man would come to receive the kingdom from the Ancient of Days. However, when the Messiah eventually came, his resurrection introduced an interesting new period. The end had come, but then thefinal end was delayed, for the sake of allowing humanity more time to repent (see Rom 2:4, 1 Pet 3). So, prior to Jesus’ death and resurrection, the coming of the Son of Man does refer to the ‘final judgement’, but as the days rolled on, in a staggering historical fulfilment of this expectation, the final judgement of God fell upon the Messiah when he hung on the cross. When Luke wrote up the day of Pentecost, he even used the famous apocalyptic language to refer to these events, and the whole of the Book of Revelation enlists apocalyptic imagery to spell out what happened on that day. The end has come. So, whereas the Old Testament looked forward to the final judgement, those who live after Jesus’ death in a very real sense now look back on it!

The separation process that was attached to the final judgement is now operating in human history as the messengers of the Messiah bring the gospel to the world; this is the judgement that Matthew 13 and 25 were looking towards—the sending out of the angels into the world, etc. (see Matt 28:18).

The imagery of the thief is used to convey how certain people will be caught by an event that is unexpected and disastrous. This imagery in Matthew 24:43 can be applied to the generation of Israelites amongst whom Jesus lived and died. Despite Jesus’ warnings, they were taken by surprise by the coming of the Son of Man (i.e. the resurrection). And then, with this historical reality behind them, the image is even more poignant when applied to those from all over the world who will be caught napping when Christ finally returns at the consummation. There is no logical reason why the use of the same image entails its application to the same event. Even though the same image is used, the dramatic change in language indicates that a different event entirely is being spoken of: it is no longer the “Son of Man” in 1 Thessalonians and 1 Peter, but “the day of the Lord”—that is, the one who is now installed as Lord—since he has already come as the Son of Man (in the exaltation, in fulfilment of Daniel 7:13-14) and received the Lordship (in fulfilment of Psalm 110:2).
http://matthiasmedia.com/briefing/2...-son-of-man-a-response-to-sandys-second-post/​

 

[Postvieww]

Did "Every Eye" see Jesus ascend?

Word games? Cannot the like manner refer to the method in which He left? He was taken up and a cloud received Him out of their sight Acts 1:9. When He returns “behold , He cometh with the clouds” is just the reverse. No every eye didn’t see Him leave ( those present did) when He comes again every eye will see Him return, no contradiction.

Let’s apply your logic to your own statement. You said “For sure, Acts 26:12-18 and Acts 7:54-58 stand as direct fulfillments of Acts 1:11". In Acts 26 did anyone other than Paul witness the light from heaven? Paul heard His voice, is there any mention of Jesus shouting back from the cloud as he left in Acts 1? Did Paul say anything about a cloud in his testimony? Did Paul say Jesus went up or down? Now look at Acts 7 Did Stephen see Jesus go up or down? Did he see a cloud? All he saw was the Glory of God and Jesus standing on His right hand. You have not held yourself to the same standard you impose on me. You claim Acts 7 & 26 are in fulfillment of Acts 1 which tells us He will return in like manner as He left, but there is no “like manner “ in the passages you site.

You must believe yes if you assert His return Will be "in like manner" as the ascension.

No I must not.

Did Jesus ascend "in Great power and Glory, with Angelic armies in tow and reward every man according to His works at that time?"

You must say yes if you assert His return will be "in Like manner" as the ascension.

You do not hold yourself to this standard.

C'mon, It's demonstrably false that you Believe His return will be in exact like manner as the ascension.

You used the word “exact” I didn’t.

You simply pick and choose whichever attributes of the ascension will be "in like manner as" the return that best suit your previously held view, and completely disregard the rest, in the complete absence of ANY scriptural instruction to do so.

Just like you did with Acts 7 and 26.

Q:How Did the angels promise the disciples Jesus would "come"

A: In like manner as they saw Him go "into Heaven".

He ascended up INTO the cloud and when He went INTO the cloud He was out of their sight.

How did Jesus enter heaven?

Hidden from their eyes by a cloud. (Acts 1:9)

This is the same tactic I have encountered in the pre –post debate. Every passage that describes the same event in scripture DOES NOT have to be identical in every detail to be speaking of the same event. The superscription on the cross is worded differently in in all 4 gospels yet they describe the same event.

I already gave my detailed, scripture based response to your 21st century goggles version of "every eye shall see". feel free to offer a scriptural rebuttal anytime.

I also gave a detailed rebuttal to your claim “For sure, Acts 26:12-18 and Acts 7:54-58 stand as direct fulfillments of Acts 1:11" please explain why you demand a different standard for others.

Now, about Matt 21:33-45....?

Here is what I said in post #198

“Matt:21:45And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Short answer above verse tells us who it was directly for in that sense fullfilled. As with other parables there are truths that can be applied elsewhere . This "coming "would be His first physical coming. When I ask for scripture yet unfulfilled I am referring to His second physical coming for every eye to see.”

I don’t know what you are looking for here. I went back and reread your response in post #201. Are you trying to get me to agree the coming in the parable vs 40 is the same as Revelation 1:7 and has already happened? If so that’s not going to happen. I already said in post #203 “I believe Jesus can appear at anytime He chooses to anyone He chooses”. Show me a 2nd witness, verse to prove Jesus “came” in or around 70 AD.

Now if you will indulge me I have a few (undetermined number) questions.

Revelation 19:11-16 fulfilled or not?

Revelation 11:15-19 fulfilled or not?

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 fulfilled or not?

2 Thessalonians 2:1 fulfilled or not?

parousia70 where are you?????

 

[Postvieww]

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev, 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

The above two passages are the same event. Jesus coming down. Future. Very simply, Matt.24:30 is about Jesus return to the earth, because the tribes of the earth see Him coming in the clouds of heaven and mourn. This is again confirm in Rev. 1:7 “all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him”.
Jesus did not get Daniel 7 wrong He just affirmed it.
​

This is what Bolt says:

Does “the coming of the Son of Man” refer to the ‘final judgement’? Well, yes it does! From the perspective of Old Testament expectation, there was a final judgement to come at the end of time, and this was the context in which the Son of Man would come to receive the kingdom from the Ancient of Days. However, when the Messiah eventually came, his resurrection introduced an interesting new period. The end had come, but then thefinal end was delayed, for the sake of allowing humanity more time to repent (see Rom 2:4, 1 Pet 3). So, prior to Jesus’ death and resurrection, the coming of the Son of Man does refer to the ‘final judgement’, but as the days rolled on, in a staggering historical fulfilment of this expectation, the final judgement of God fell upon the Messiah when he hung on the cross. When Luke wrote up the day of Pentecost, he even used the famous apocalyptic language to refer to these events, and the whole of the Book of Revelation enlists apocalyptic imagery to spell out what happened on that day. The end has come. So, whereas the Old Testament looked forward to the final judgement, those who live after Jesus’ death in a very real sense now look back on it!

The separation process that was attached to the final judgement is now operating in human history as the messengers of the Messiah bring the gospel to the world; this is the judgement that Matthew 13 and 25 were looking towards—the sending out of the angels into the world, etc. (see Matt 28:18).

The imagery of the thief is used to convey how certain people will be caught by an event that is unexpected and disastrous. This imagery in Matthew 24:43 can be applied to the generation of Israelites amongst whom Jesus lived and died. Despite Jesus’ warnings, they were taken by surprise by the coming of the Son of Man (i.e. the resurrection). And then, with this historical reality behind them, the image is even more poignant when applied to those from all over the world who will be caught napping when Christ finally returns at the consummation. There is no logical reason why the use of the same image entails its application to the same event. Even though the same image is used, the dramatic change in language indicates that a different event entirely is being spoken of: it is no longer the “Son of Man” in 1 Thessalonians and 1 Peter, but “the day of the Lord”—that is, the one who is now installed as Lord—since he has already come as the Son of Man (in the exaltation, in fulfilment of Daniel 7:13-14) and received the Lordship (in fulfilment of Psalm 110:2).
http://matthiasmedia.com/briefing/2...-son-of-man-a-response-to-sandys-second-post/​

So I can keep straight what scripture goes where in your theory please identify these for me.

Matthew 24:30-31 fulfilled or not?

1 Corinthians 1:7 fulfilled or not?

1 Corinthians 15:23 fulfilled or not?

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 fulfilled or not?

1 Thessalonians 2:19 fulfilled or not?

1 Thessalonians 3:13 fulfilled or not?

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 fulfilled or not?

1 Thessalonians 5:23 fulfilled or not?

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 fulfilled or not?

James 5:7-8 fulfilled or not?

1 John 2:28 fulfilled or not?

Revelation 1:7 fulfilled or not?

Revelation 11:15-18 fulfilled or not?

Revelation 14:14-20 fulfilled or not?

Revelation 17 fulfilled or not?

Revelation 19:11-18 fulfilled or not?

Please tell me what you believe not what Bolt believes.

 

[eclipsenow]

So I can keep straight what scripture goes where in your theory please identify these for me.

Matthew 24:30-31 fulfilled or not?

1 Corinthians 1:7 fulfilled or not?

1 Corinthians 15:23 fulfilled or not?

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 fulfilled or not?

1 Thessalonians 2:19 fulfilled or not?

1 Thessalonians 3:13 fulfilled or not?

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 fulfilled or not?

1 Thessalonians 5:23 fulfilled or not?

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 fulfilled or not?

James 5:7-8 fulfilled or not?

1 John 2:28 fulfilled or not?

Revelation 1:7 fulfilled or not?

Revelation 11:15-18 fulfilled or not?

Revelation 14:14-20 fulfilled or not?

Revelation 17 fulfilled or not?

Revelation 19:11-18 fulfilled or not?

Please tell me what you believe not what Bolt believes.

I don't have time to go through each verse at the moment, but both Peter and I agree that the New Testament clearly teaches the Lord will return to judge the world and rescue his church. Our concern is that much of the gospels are mistakenly used to justify some wacky End-Times-Tables, rather than being read about more gospel orientated subjects.

EG: I'm open to Matthew 24 being about Daniel 7 and reading it as Jesus ascension as Peter Bolt does. I think some of the language in Matthew 24 is particularly problematic for that view, and may need some more unpacking. I'm not 100% sold on it, but he does make a strong case that Daniel 7 was NOT about Jesus return but his being welcomed before the Father.

Then there's the Dr Paul Barnett 'split' view, that the passage deals with 2 subjects: the temple being destroyed and the Lord's return. One is local, predictable, imminent (that generation) and you can do something about it! (Run away!)
One is universal, unpredictable, happening on 'That day' (not that generation!) and you can't escape it! This is the historical view that as Jesus walked around the temple he had in mind how he was going to replace it, and the temple would be destroyed (AD 70) and his death & resurrection would lead to his return one day. Split view. 2 subjects: predictable end of that temple that they were walking around and talking about, and unpredictable end of the world when the Lord one day returned. But really? He's looking down on Jerusalem thinking about his death in a week, and the disciples don't even know he's going to die and rise and ascend... so would his 'return' even mean anything to them? Back to Bolt's view.

 

[Postvieww]

I don't have time to go through each verse at the moment, but both Peter and I agree that the New Testament clearly teaches the Lord will return to judge the world and rescue his church. Our concern is that much of the gospels are mistakenly used to justify some wacky End-Times-Tables, rather than being read about more gospel orientated subjects.

EG: I'm open to Matthew 24 being about Daniel 7 and reading it as Jesus ascension as Peter Bolt does. I think some of the language in Matthew 24 is particularly problematic for that view, and may need some more unpacking. I'm not 100% sold on it, but he does make a strong case that Daniel 7 was NOT about Jesus return but his being welcomed before the Father.

Then there's the Dr Paul Barnett 'split' view, that the passage deals with 2 subjects: the temple being destroyed and the Lord's return. One is local, predictable, imminent (that generation) and you can do something about it! (Run away!)
One is universal, unpredictable, happening on 'That day' (not that generation!) and you can't escape it! This is the historical view that as Jesus walked around the temple he had in mind how he was going to replace it, and the temple would be destroyed (AD 70) and his death & resurrection would lead to his return one day. Split view. 2 subjects: predictable end of that temple that they were walking around and talking about, and unpredictable end of the world when the Lord one day returned. But really? He's looking down on Jerusalem thinking about his death in a week, and the disciples don't even know he's going to die and rise and ascend... so would his 'return' even mean anything to them? Back to Bolt's view.

I understand it was a lengthy list, but I didn’t ask for an in depth break down on each verse. A total of 16 words would have answered my question. You said ” the Lord will return to judge the world and rescue his church” , as stated, I believe that too. What scripture reference tells you that will happen. I really am having a hard time figuring out what you believe is fulfilled and what is not, that is why I ask for specifics. Let’s try just one passage. Is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 fulfilled or not?

The fact that someone disagrees with you does not make them “wacky”.

 

[eclipsenow]

I understand it was a lengthy list, but I didn’t ask for an in depth break down on each verse. A total of 16 words would have answered my question. You said ” the Lord will return to judge the world and rescue his church” , as stated, I believe that too. What scripture reference tells you that will happen. I really am having a hard time figuring out what you believe is fulfilled and what is not, that is why I ask for specifics. Let’s try just one passage. Is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 fulfilled or not?

The fact that someone disagrees with you does not make them “wacky”.

Why do you use the KJV? I clicked on that verse hyperlink and, to be honest, got the creeps. It's so holiereth thaneth thoueth. The texts it is based on are inferior, and while it did a lot of good in it's day for being in the language of the people, it has ceased being that for a century or so. It's simply not in today's language, and so no longer fulfils the purpose of the original authors. In FACT, now that I think about it, the KJV's use today is exactly contrary to it's original purpose. Just as speaking in Latin was perceived to be the 'holy' language, but alienated the masses, today speaking in KJV is perceived to be the 'holy' language, but alienates the masses. Sorry to go off topic, and I hope to answer your questions about eschatology, but seriously: I'm finding the KJV a real worry on this list!

 

[Postvieww]

Why do you use the KJV? I clicked on that verse hyperlink and, to be honest, got the creeps. It's so holiereth thaneth thoueth. The texts it is based on are inferior, and while it did a lot of good in it's day for being in the language of the people, it has ceased being that for a century or so. It's simply not in today's language, and so no longer fulfils the purpose of the original authors. In FACT, now that I think about it, the KJV's use today is exactly contrary to it's original purpose. Just as speaking in Latin was perceived to be the 'holy' language, but alienated the masses, today speaking in KJV is perceived to be the 'holy' language, but alienates the masses. Sorry to go off topic, and I hope to answer your questions about eschatology, but seriously: I'm finding the KJV a real worry on this list!

Anything but answer a simple question? I dropped the red font and the blue bold for you, I’m not dropping the KJV because you don’t like it. I happen to think it is one of the better versions out there. Some of the modern translation have doctrinal issues, but that’s another discussion. We can’t even nail this one down. Use any version you like and tell me is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 fulfilled or not?

 

[parousia70]

Let’s try just one passage. Is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 fulfilled or not?

Fulfilled.

1 Thess 4:13-18 is a discussion of when the O.T. dead would escape Hades/Sheol and be united to Christ in the heavenlies. In short, Paul says that their release from Hades was about to happen, as the impending historic change of the covenants (Heb 8:13/2 Cor 3:6-11) was to be marked by the Temple's profanation/desecration (2 Thess 2:3-4/Matt 23:33-24:2) and God's wrath on their disobedient Jewish countrymen (1 Thess 2:15-16/Mt 23:33-38/Acts 3:22-24).

#1 - Paul teaches that 1 Thess 4:13-18 is a first-century event that both he and the Thessalonians should expect to live unto (and Paul could not err).

#2 - Paul explicitly teaches that only the dead were to be resurrected, not the living. Thus, the doctrine is always referred to as the resurrection of THE DEAD. It is an event for the dead

#3 - Paul explicitly states that the living will not be raised at that same time, but are to join the dead some time later in the heavenlies ("air").

 

[Another Lazarus]

Very soon you'll see.