[MOVED] Do you think the grid will go down when the rapture happens?

[DavidPT]

How does that work 'after' Revelation 6 basically shows the end of the world?

See, I don't think it's possible to read Revelation as a 'timetable' of the last generation. It's a sermon to suffering Christians, not an end-times-table.

As Bishop Paul Barnett explains, the 1000 years we are in (long period of time between Jesus resurrection and return) have the following cycles described all in parallel - along side each other - not to be read sequentially like some sort of future timeline.
HUMAN HISTORY: THE 1000 YEARS:-
Seven seals depicting TYRANNY (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven trumpets depicting CHAOS in nature (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven signs depicting PERSECUTION (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven plagues depicting DESTRUCTION.
These episodes are concurrent, not consecutive.

Wouldn't it be ironic if we were looking for how the Corona Virus pandemic fit into some future timeline and missed it entirely because we were looking for a timeline prediction rather than a thematic description? What if we missed the entire point of Revelation, and missed biblical warnings and encouragements about our lives now - and the last 2000 years - because we were trying to read it with the wrong glasses on?
https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Now-Then-Revelation-Commentaries/dp/1875861416

Bottom line - it describes natural disasters, tyrants persecuting the church, 'beast-states', the temptations of trusting in materialism and luxury and even state security, and all manner of other things the human race have experienced over the last 2000 years and into the next. Revelation was a book John wrote about impending Roman persecution, but also other themes. Some images (like the beast) describe Roman stuff, other things are more generic. Not everything has to be fulfilled in the first century because it was a general description of life and the various temptations we'll face.

To put it plainly, while Rev 13 describes Rome's persecution of the Christians in Asia Minor, it also tells us general principles about our beast states. Hitler was one beast state, Stalin another, North Korea yet another. There are many examples - and Amil Christians that live under these look to Revelation as a book of comfort. They laugh at the idea that John would have told his generation of suffering Christians "You think you've got it bad, wait till you see what happens in 2000 years!"

I'm not saying I agree that the rapture precedes that vial. I'm just pointing out, that if the rapture did precede that particular vial, I can see something like that maybe explaining the grid going down.


As to Revelation 6 showing the end of the world, I agree that it does just that, as of the 6th seal. But the end of the world meaning the end of this present age we are currently living in. Unlike some others, I don't see the 7 trumpets and 7 vials occurring chronologically after the 6th seal events, I see them occurring throughout the 6 seal events instead. IOW, I see the 6 seals as an outline of sorts, that chronologically progress into further stages, and that when we get to the events of the 6th seal, we are at the end of this progression.

 

[JacksBratt]

I have reason to believe that it might..

I doubt it.. I don't see why it would..

In fact.. I have a view that maybe the "mark of the beast" is your own personal IP address.

Think about it.. Even today we buy so much on line.. Just think if they made it the only method of sales and purchases and the only way to access the web was by your own personal IP address.

Don't take the mark... or... don't get an IP address.. you cannot buy or sell.

Just an idea.

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

Rapture theology has to tie itself in knots just to demonstrate its validity and ignores clear passages that go against it like 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8.

What is the purpose for all the persecution of the saints before the rapture if the rapture saves us from God's wrath? God promises to get us through tribulation, not out of it.

 

[bèlla]

Rapture is a misinterpretation of scripture.

I hope we don't have a situation where many abandon their jobs, homes, and sell their belongings in anticipation. Not that it's happened before.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

I hope we don't have a situation where many abandon their jobs, homes, and sell their belongings in anticipation. Not that it's happened before.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

Actually, Paul talks about precisely this in his letter to the Thessalonians and them not wanting to work because they think Jesus is going to return any minute.

 

[bèlla]

Actually, Paul talks about precisely this in his letter to the Thessalonians and them not wanting to work because they think Jesus is going to return any minute.

We've seen numerous examples of the same. Hence the remark.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The rapture theory tends to belong in the new age movement as "the ascension"

 

[Blade]

Rapture is a misinterpretation of scripture.

hmm " For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up(rapture) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

No.. I think its spot on. Be nice if maybe you went into a tad more detail? As in how is it in your personal view a misinterpretation?

Goes inline with Jesus going back to the Fathers house to make a home and if He did He will come again to receive us unto Him self so where He is we will be.

Nothing added... no "what Paul was really saying" "What Jesus really meant". I have found in my own life even when I do not fully understand some scriptures.. I just believe what He said. And it ALWAYS happens. He always keeps His word. Its MAN that tells me what Gods word really means.

I wonder if we think the sweet sweet Holy Spirit will tell me one truth about a verse and tell another believer something different, another truth. Nope.

He is coming for us.. no one knows.. but He IS as He said 'Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live." hmm

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Rapture theory tends to be a great way to divert Christians from talking about the resurrection.

 

[eclipsenow]

Hi, rapture I do believe in but am willing to wait and see. The tribulation and the millennium have many more passages about them and lets say the rapture does happen which would be prior to the tribulation; we can look at the passages about those days and get a look into the conditions. Rev 6 notes peace taken from the earth, men killing one another and a days wage for a quart of wheat. In this description we see society across the earth is falling apart. YOu have to define what you mean by grid specifically. There certainly are many aspects that will fall apart and symbol they have used NWO is a Phoenix which rises out the ashes. We see the beast does not gain control over word until there are only 42 months to go so it seems the 1st 42 months are a different type of chaos that gives way to the beast system. These events will happen rapture or not so remember to love one another and share the LORD as long as we can.

Don't take the obscure metaphors of Revelation and lay them over the vastly clearer more literal passages in the New Testament - the correct interpretation method is the other way around. The rest of the NT shows us that it all happens at the one moment and there are really horrible inconsistencies if you try to split these events up! It's called the two ages model and it is so clear once you see the relevant verses together.
A Present or Future Millennium? by Kim Riddlebarger

 

[WanderedHome]

Note - the strength of the Rapture Pull beam may vary according to your spiritual journey. This is NOT a case in which you want to be Lukewarm; you need it to be strong enough to achieve Material Escape Velocity...

Got to stay busy shedding the excess weight of the passions.

 

[Jamdoc]

I have reason to believe that it might..

Yes and no.
I don't take a pretrib rapture view, so.. the thing that'll end up happening prior to the rapture is Christians would be persecuted and lose jobs in places that'll be responsible for maintaining electrical grids and so on, many will be imprisoned and then many will be killed.
Matthew 24:9

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Revelation 6:9-11

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Revelation 13:7-17

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The Holocaust was a type fulfillment of the great tribulation, a shadow that shows what will happen prophetically in the end times. Christians and Jews who won't submit to the antichrist and his empire will be taken out of positions of power, have their property and jobs and possessions taken from them, and taken into camps.. and many killed.
So the power won't go down because the rapture takes away people who work in maintaining the grid.
Power WILL likely go out because of the effects of the wrath of God all over the globe however.
and it is possible, that the grid could be taken out by an EMP in a war that would remove the US as a world power (which would explain why it's not even symbollically in biblical prophecy, not even as a nation that attacks or defends Israel) that could take place prior to the 70th week.

 

[eclipsenow]

Yes and no.
I don't take a pretrib rapture view, so.. the thing that'll end up happening prior to the rapture is Christians would be persecuted and lose jobs in places that'll be responsible for maintaining electrical grids and so on, many will be imprisoned and then many will be killed.
Matthew 24:9

Isn't that generally the last few thousand years in various times and places?

Revelation 6:9-11

Revelation 13:7-17

The Holocaust was a type fulfillment of the great tribulation,

Exactly!

a shadow that shows what will happen prophetically in the end times.

That's not how biblical types and shadows work. The shadows are in the OT, the reality is in Christ. The reality is that all the world's nations and enemies have already been judged - in Christ on the cross. In eschatological tension! That means there's a now and not yet nature to it - we experience our salvation in part now, but await its fulfilment in Christ in the new heavens and new earth.

Christians and Jews who won't submit to the antichrist

There is no 'the' antichrist - as there are many antichrists.

Revelation doesn't work like that. As Bishop Paul Barnett explains, the 1000 years we are in (long period of time between Jesus resurrection and return) have the following cycles described all in parallel - along side each other - not to be read sequentially like some sort of future timeline.
HUMAN HISTORY: THE 1000 YEARS:-
Seven seals depicting TYRANNY (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven trumpets depicting CHAOS in nature (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven signs depicting PERSECUTION (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven plagues depicting DESTRUCTION.
These episodes are concurrent, not consecutive.

Wouldn't it be ironic if we were looking for how the Corona Virus pandemic fit into some future timeline and missed it entirely because we were looking for a timeline prediction rather than a thematic description? What if we missed the entire point of Revelation, and missed biblical warnings and encouragements about our lives now - and the last 2000 years - because we were trying to read it with the wrong glasses on?
https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Now-Then-Revelation-Commentaries/dp/1875861416

Bottom line - it describes natural disasters, tyrants persecuting the church, 'beast-states', the temptations of trusting in materialism and luxury and even state security, and all manner of other things the human race have experienced over the last 2000 years and into the next. Revelation was a book John wrote about impending Roman persecution, but also other themes. Some images (like the beast) describe Roman stuff, other things are more generic. Not everything has to be fulfilled in the first century because it was a general description of life and the various temptations we'll face.

To put it plainly, while Rev 13 describes Rome's persecution of the Christians in Asia Minor, it also tells us general principles about our beast states. Hitler was one beast state, Stalin another, North Korea yet another. There are many examples - and Amil Christians that live under these look to Revelation as a book of comfort. They laugh at the idea that John would have told his generation of suffering Christians "You think you've got it bad, wait till you see what happens in 2000 years!"

 

[Jamdoc]

Rapture theology has to tie itself in knots just to demonstrate its validity and ignores clear passages that go against it like 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8.

What is the purpose for all the persecution of the saints before the rapture if the rapture saves us from God's wrath? God promises to get us through tribulation, not out of it.

The blood of the martyrs is the seeds of the church.
The persecution and killing of Christians will cause people who might not otherwise seek Christ to seek Him, seeing their faith even in the face of death, and it will also weigh in on their conscience. To see good people be declared enemies of society and put to death.

To be a western Christian, and expect to just vanish before any suffering, is an entitled point of view. To see yourself as the church of Philadelphia first off shows arrogance that you believe you do nothing in your life that Jesus would rebuke you for, and secondly, even if you do nothing Jesus would rebuke you for, neither did the church at Smyrna and they were persecuted and martyred. To see yourself as escaping while our brothers and sisters were beheaded by ISIS for being Christian in far more trying places in the world is just pompous.
Jesus taught endure endure endure, be patient and have faith, and endure, we're never promised that being a Christian will be easy, we're promised it'll be hard. How hard is it, if being in the richest country in the world, being guaranteed religious freedom, and the worst "persecution" we get is being called names by the world, and we expect to just poof before any real trouble hits us. Some people will show themselves to not be in the faith when tribulation hits, as in Matthew 13:20-21, those who the seed was cast on stony places. So that is another purpose.

 

[Jamdoc]

Isn't that generally the last few thousand years in various times and places?

Revelation 6:9-11

Revelation 13:7-17


Exactly!


That's not how biblical types and shadows work. The shadows are in the OT, the reality is in Christ. The reality is that all the world's nations and enemies have already been judged - in Christ on the cross. In eschatological tension! That means there's a now and not yet nature to it - we experience our salvation in part now, but await its fulfilment in Christ in the new heavens and new earth.



There is no 'the' antichrist - as there are many antichrists.

Revelation doesn't work like that. As Bishop Paul Barnett explains, the 1000 years we are in (long period of time between Jesus resurrection and return) have the following cycles described all in parallel - along side each other - not to be read sequentially like some sort of future timeline.
HUMAN HISTORY: THE 1000 YEARS:-
Seven seals depicting TYRANNY (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven trumpets depicting CHAOS in nature (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven signs depicting PERSECUTION (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven plagues depicting DESTRUCTION.
These episodes are concurrent, not consecutive.

Wouldn't it be ironic if we were looking for how the Corona Virus pandemic fit into some future timeline and missed it entirely because we were looking for a timeline prediction rather than a thematic description? What if we missed the entire point of Revelation, and missed biblical warnings and encouragements about our lives now - and the last 2000 years - because we were trying to read it with the wrong glasses on?
https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Now-Then-Revelation-Commentaries/dp/1875861416

Bottom line - it describes natural disasters, tyrants persecuting the church, 'beast-states', the temptations of trusting in materialism and luxury and even state security, and all manner of other things the human race have experienced over the last 2000 years and into the next. Revelation was a book John wrote about impending Roman persecution, but also other themes. Some images (like the beast) describe Roman stuff, other things are more generic. Not everything has to be fulfilled in the first century because it was a general description of life and the various temptations we'll face.

To put it plainly, while Rev 13 describes Rome's persecution of the Christians in Asia Minor, it also tells us general principles about our beast states. Hitler was one beast state, Stalin another, North Korea yet another. There are many examples - and Amil Christians that live under these look to Revelation as a book of comfort. They laugh at the idea that John would have told his generation of suffering Christians "You think you've got it bad, wait till you see what happens in 2000 years!"

AD 70 was a type fulfillment not an escahatalogical fulfillment. That was a regional conflict, what is shown in revelation is global in nature.
I still believe we are headed for a true fulfillment. Some of what was not possible in past generations IS possible in this generation, and the fig tree has been sprouting leaves since at least 1967, if not 1948 depending on if you want to interpret that as Israel or Jerusalem itself.
To be real, if it does not happen in this century, there are many things that can happen where humanity would go "too far" and I think God would want to stop things from getting to that point. We're getting to being able to CRISPR edit humans, and risk making them not in the image of God, an abomination to be sure. If there is no real end times fulfillment of prophecy and things just go on and on.. I don't think you'd want to see what this world becomes.

 

[eclipsenow]

AD 70 was a type fulfillment not an escahatalogical fulfillment. That was a regional conflict, what is shown in revelation is global in nature.
I still believe we are headed for a true fulfillment. Some of what was not possible in past generations IS possible in this generation, and the fig tree has been sprouting leaves since at least 1967, if not 1948 depending on if you want to interpret that as Israel or Jerusalem itself.

Sorry - I think the gospel was spread to all nations within Luke and Jesus could have returned at any point in time since then. The modern secular State of Israel doesn't figure. It's actually irrelevant to God's larger eschatological themes.

 

[Jamdoc]

Sorry - I think the gospel was spread to all nations within Luke and Jesus could have returned at any point in time since then. The modern secular State of Israel doesn't figure. It's actually irrelevant to God's larger eschatological themes.

Jesus caused the fig tree outside of Jerusalem to wither, then told His disciples it was a parable.
Also, He won't return until after the abomination of desolation. That's other big sign He gave.

 

[Timtofly]

I hope we don't have a situation where many abandon their jobs, homes, and sell their belongings in anticipation. Not that it's happened before.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

No one knows when it happens. The only preparation is spiritual. Concern over being duped by Satan is not warranted. Neither is rejecting the rapture period. Those who do not want the rapture to happen, seem apt to receive God's wrath. Not that rejection is a punishment. It is just a weird reason for wanting to going through God's wrath: "We are tough, we do not have to be part of your plan, dump it on us"

God says He will give us rest by taking us away first, not putting us in a bubble while folks die around us. Do you think those outside of your bubble will be able to get into your bubble? What if you have to watch them die, because you cannot even pull them into your bubble. Kind of sadistic to watch all of those around you die, and you cannot convince them to change their minds, but hey you are doing great while they anguish in pain.

 

[Timtofly]

The rapture theory tends to belong in the new age movement as "the ascension"

Satan always has a counterfeit explanation.

 

[bèlla]

The only preparation is spiritual.

That's interesting. The Lord didn't have a problem preparing me to be healed. He didn't have an issue dispensing my purpose and bringing me into contact with three religious leaders from different Christian traditions who confirmed it.

He didn't struggle to give me a 10 year business plan or align me with Christian entrepreneurs and coaches who'd assist. He had no difficulty placing me with instructors who've aided my growth. Or pointing out the training I required to accomplish my mission. He didn't hasten to form alliances or move me away from situations that were detrimental to my welfare. He's done all this and more without fail.

But He's NEVER spoken to me about the rapture or instructed me to muse over the end times or end of the world scenarios. Fulfilling my kingdom calling is His objective. Maybe yours is different.

Just because you choose to do something doesn't mean God told you to do it.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella