[MOVED]Are you lawless?

Please come down from that ivory white tower and answer a simple question. You never answer questions, and all you do is judge it seems. Somehow i think Paul would have already answered my question, in fact he does, but i want to see your answer, seeing how you know so much.

Shimshon said:

Doing Good to All
Galatians 6
1 Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.

2 Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.​

Gotta love Galatians ay?

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Yes. How about the reaping and sowing part? Gotta love it. Its interesting how people can sow seeds of strife with their misunderstanding of Paul's words, and then they walk away thinking they did a good job.

I would be a liar if a said that i didn't struggle with things. Many people struggle with something. What do i do though? Do i just throw out the commands that teach me right from wrong? Is that the solution? Not in my opinion.

I know a person who goes to Church, and i have seen them steal things with my own eyes. They say that they need those things more than the store does, and the store is rich and can afford to let them have it, so that makes it ok. IT's not like this person needs any of the things they take either. They are unnecessary things. I must ask you, what should that person be doing? Should they not be studying the commands of Christ and Paul, and should they not conform their thinking and living by those commands? Or should they throw out those commands? It seems that they are most likely not reading those commands or they would know that stealing is wrong. This is not a tough question is it? Please, tell me what that person should do.

You see how we must be preaching the word as Paul urged timothy to do? You see how useful it is?

Poster0 said:

Yes. How about the reaping and sowing part? Gotta love it. Its interesting how people can sow seeds of strife with their misunderstanding of Paul's words, and then they walk away thinking they did a good job.

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Our actions speak louder than words, or professed theology. The book of proverbs is sorely needed to be read here. Messiah said we would be known by our love for one another. We just have to accept that not everyone who claims to know his message really does. And pray for them. Heap blessings on them. Its the Godly way.

Shimshon said:

Our actions speak louder than words, or professed theology. The book of proverbs is sorely needed to be read here. Messiah said we would be known by our love for one another. We just have to accept that not everyone who claims to know his message really does. And pray for them. Heap blessings on them. Its the Godly way.

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I agree. Proverbs have been speaking to me throughout this conversation. Its just not loving to accuse someone of failing to live by Grace, but then refuse to answer their honest and sincere questions.

Poster0 said:

I would be a liar if a said that i didn't struggle with things. Many people struggle with something. What do i do though? Do i just throw out the commands that teach me right from wrong? Is that the solution? Not in my opinion.

I know a person who goes to Church, and i have seen them steal things with my own eyes. They say that they need those things more than the store does, and the store is rich and can afford to let them have it, so that makes it ok. IT's not like this person needs any of the things they take either. They are unnecessary things. I must ask you, what should that person be doing? Should they not be studying the commands of Christ and Paul, and should they not conform their thinking and living by those commands? Or should they throw out those commands? It seems that they are most likely not reading those commands or they would know that stealing is wrong. This is not a tough question is it? Please, tell me what that person should do.

You see how we must be preaching the word as Paul urged timothy to do? You see how useful it is?

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Putting to death the desires of the flesh is by the Spirit.

God does the work.

Confess the sin and He will cleanse this desire from your life.

It is a promise from God.

Be like Abraham.

He believed.

He did not use human effort.

Wordkeeper said:

Putting to death the desires of the flesh is by the Spirit.

God does the work.

Confess the sin and He will cleanse this desire from your life.

It is a promise from God.

Be like Abraham.

He believed.

He did not use human effort.

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Please don't preach to me friend. I asked simple questions and you give me strawman.

Poster0 said:

I agree. Proverbs have been speaking to me throughout this conversation. Its just not loving to accuse someone of failing to live by Grace, but then refuse to answer their honest and sincere questions.

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They truly can't answer them. All they have is a learned doctrine to parrot. They can't seem to answer the objections.

I am grateful for that Romans Scripture however, im still being blessed by it, and so i do thank you for posting it. You did bless me in that way, things are not so bad. Its like a tsunami of edification that just keeps coming. Praise the Lord. I am loving grace right now. I do however, still need and cling to his every word and command though, and its a lamp for my feet. Praise the Lord for Gods grace, and for his instructions.

I was reading proverbs chapter 2 just now because today is the 2nd day of the month. Its a -chapter a day- reading thing someone started.


I like this chapter. It makes me think of Gods covenant with us. We must never stray from grace. Amen. WE should also never stray from words of instruction either, which are wisdom.

Proverbs 2New International Version (NIV)

Moral Benefits of Wisdom
2 My son, if you accept my words
and store up my commands within you,
2 turning your ear to wisdom
and applying your heart to understanding—
3 indeed, if you call out for insight
and cry aloud for understanding,
4 and if you look for it as for silver
and search for it as for hidden treasure,
5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord
and find the knowledge of God.
6 For the Lord gives wisdom;
from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.
7 He holds success in store for the upright,
he is a shield to those whose walk is blameless,
8 for he guards the course of the just
and protects the way of his faithful ones.
9 Then you will understand what is right and just
and fair—every good path.
10 For wisdom will enter your heart,
and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul.
11 Discretion will protect you,
and understanding will guard you.
12 Wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men,
from men whose words are perverse,
13 who have left the straight paths
to walk in dark ways,
14 who delight in doing wrong
and rejoice in the perverseness of evil,
15 whose paths are crooked
and who are devious in their ways.
16 Wisdom will save you also from the adulterous woman,
from the wayward woman with her seductive words,
17 who has left the partner of her youth
and ignored the covenant she made before God.[a]
18 Surely her house leads down to death
and her paths to the spirits of the dead.
19 None who go to her return
or attain the paths of life.
20 Thus you will walk in the ways of the good
and keep to the paths of the righteous.
21 For the upright will live in the land,
and the blameless will remain in it;
22 but the wicked will be cut off from the land,
and the unfaithful will be torn from it.

Wordkeeper said:

Putting to death the desires of the flesh is by the Spirit.

God does the work.

Confess the sin and He will cleanse this desire from your life.

It is a promise from God.

Be like Abraham.

He believed.

He did not use human effort.

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I believe God wants us to exercise faith by our actions. Do you think that Abraham was possessed by God like some kind of robot being controlled by a computer program? Was he a man who had no internal struggle with Gods command? Did he walk up that mountain like a mindless Robot? Or did he need to choose to follow Gods command?

A Robot cannot choose to obey because it has no mind. It must follow the programming it was given. Is that what a Christian is?

If Christ completely replaces me, and i have no more freedom of choice, then what am i? Have i actually risen from the dead or am i just dead? Christ has risen and i just died completely. I am nothing, no more can i live and make choices. Have i actually risen?

I cannot comprehend the notion that i cannot use effort. If i do not use effort then i do not experience freedom of choice, what am i?

Do you see where i'm coming from? Without freedom of choice i do not exist. I believe fredom of choice, and effort, is required in order that i may exist, and its used in acts of faith instead of evil acts. IF i have no freedom by which i choose to act in faith, then i am nothing but a soulless, mindless robot. Is that what God wants me to be? Sure, he is our righteousness, and no man can save himself by his own works, but doesn't God still give us freedom to choose? Isnt he asking us to act in works of faith? Perhaps even those works do not save us because who can have perfect works? NO one that i know of. However isnt God still asking us to do acts of faith anyway? Isnt that what God would ask of us, if we still had freedom of choice?

Yes, thats the question-

Isnt that what God would ask of us, if we still had freedom of choice?

Its no longer i who work for salvation, because that work is already finished by Christ in God. I can never boast in anything but Christ alone. However, i still exist do i not? I still have freedom of choice, correct? I believe God is asking us to use that freedom to do good and not evil. This is my interpretation of the Gospel. Not only am i set free from sin and death, but im free to choose as well because that's what makes me who i am, its what shows that i am alive instead of a mindless soulless robot


1 Peter 2:16 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves.


Galatians 5:13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love.

Poster0 said:

If Christ completely replaces me, and i have no more freedom of choice, then what am i? Have i actually risen from the dead or am i just dead? Christ has risen and i just died completely. I am nothing, no more can i live and make choices. Have i actually risen?

I cannot comprehend the notion that i cannot use effort. If i do not use effort then i do not experience freedom of choice, what am i?

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Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

The instruction is to put to death the misdeeds of the body BY THE SPIRIT.

If we confess our sins, it is not self effort, it is God who cleanses us from all misdeeds, wrong desires.

If we use will power, it is self effort. Although we can stop ourselves from sinning, the desire to sin, to steal , still rages on within our body.

But if we hear with faith, that God will indeed remove those desires, He is faithful to do just that, by giving His Spirit,

Galatians 3:11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”f12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”g13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”h14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.


Because He promised to do it, and God's righteousness requires Him to keep His promises.

Do you believe that God will keep His promise to cleanse you from all righteousness if you ask Him to, because it is written in the Bible?

Wordkeeper said:

Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

The instruction is to put to death the misdeeds of the body BY THE SPIRIT.

If we confess our sins, it is not self effort, it is God who cleanses us from all misdeeds, wrong desires.

If we use will power, it is self effort. Although we can stop ourselves from sinning, the desire to sin, to steal , still rages on within our body.

But if we hear with faith, that God will indeed remove those desires, He is faithful to do just that, by giving His Spirit,

Galatians 3:11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”f12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”g13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”h14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.


Because He promised to do it, and God's righteousness requires Him to keep His promises.

Do you believe that God will keep His promise to cleanse you from all righteousness if you ask Him to, because it is written in the Bible?

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Im not sure your interpretation of scripture is correct. By your interpretation a person who is cleansed by God will never again have a fleshy desire. No one is perfect however, so im not sure how that can be seen in any Christian.

Are you perfect? Do you know anyone who is?




Look here, your interpretation of scripture seems to contradict Galatians.

What does it say? It says to be careful that you wont be tempted. That means Christians can be tempted to sin, even spiritual ones. It also says that other Christians should gently restore that Christian who is caught in a sin. Does that imply some kind of human effort? Make an effort to be careful that you are not tempted, and make an effort to restore that person who is caught in a sin. THat sure sounds like effort to me.

Galatians 6:1New International Version (NIV)

Doing Good to All
6 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted

So it seems that living by the spirit doesn't mean that a person cannot be tempted. If paul is warning them to be careful then this seems to imply that they may actually sin once they are tempted, so it seems that a spiritual Christian can be tempted, and even sin as well. They must careful. This implies effort.

Poster0 said:

Yes i can avoid it because im under grace.

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There is a certain view of the LAW of God -- that the lost have - those outside of grace who have not the New Covenant - who do not have the "LAW written on their mind and heart" Heb 8:6-10. For the lost all they see is "condemnation" when looking at the Law of God - because for them all it does is point out their sins and declare their doom.

That is the whole point of the Gospel - to solve that problem - and provide the NEW Covenant.

Praise God.

in Christ,

Bob

Wordkeeper said:

Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

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Paul gets that right by the way.

Romans 8 points out in Romans 8:5-9 that it is the lost that "do not submit to the Law of God -neither indeed CAN they"

Do you believe God's Word in that regard? I think we all do.

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan said:

There is a certain view of the LAW of God -- that the lost have - those outside of grace who have not the New Covenant - who do not have the "LAW written on their mind and heart" Heb 8:6-10. For the lost all they see is "condemnation" when looking at the Law of God - because for them all it does is point out their sins and declare their doom.

That is the whole point of the Gospel - to solve that problem - and provide the NEW Covenant.

Praise God.

in Christ,

Bob

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It was always my understanding that once we receive grace, then we still follow the commands of Christ which lead us to understand, and walk in, love and holiness. WE are not earning salvation but learning to walk in the spirit. That's my understanding, and until these grace camp folks can start answering questions instead of just spamming scripture and walking away, then i'll need to keep following what i see in scripture.