• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

"mother" Teresa - an Agnostic, or Even Athiest...

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by SwordmanJr, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. SwordmanJr

    SwordmanJr Double-edged Sword only

    789
    +252
    Christian
    Private
    Excerpts from her private writings and correspondence recorded in Come Be My Light

    "Darkness is such that I really do not see – neither with my mind nor with my reason. – The place of God in my soul is blank. – There is no God in me. – When the pain of longing is so great – I just long & long for God – and then it is that I feel – He does not want me – He is not there…"

    The REAL Jesus said:

    [Mat 28:20 KJV] 20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen."

    Folks, that was not a promise, it was a statement of fact that was/is more real than declaring that the sun rises in the East and sets in the West. That woman was declared a "saint" 19 years after her death, and the decision was made faster than for any other "sainted" dead person.

    "Do not think that my spiritual life is strewn with roses – that is the flower which I hardly ever find on my way. Quite the contrary, I have more often as my companion ‘darkness’. And when the night becomes very thick – and it seems to me as if I must end up in hell – then I simply offer myself to Jesus. If He wants me to go there – I am ready – but only under the condition that it really makes him happy."

    Jesus said many will say to Him:

    [Mat 7:21-23 KJV] 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    What jesus did she believe in. The Jesus we read about in the Bible would never send one of His true followers to Hell, so I'm left wondering what jesus this woman followed that he would be happier if she were in Hell?

    It's pretty much granted that some will defend Teresa's dark system of belief as normal for someone who deals with the suffering she encountered daily. You know, that simply doesn't match up with the Jesus of the Bible. The power of God is so much greater than all the suffering in the world heaped up into one spot on this earth. Good works will never get anyone into Heaven, which is made clear in the word of God.

    Some are bound to defend her, even to the extent of explaining her words off into some other meaning not at all similar to the very words she wrote. Some might even play on the "translation errors" defense of her words, but in the end, she can be seen to have given in to the enemy of her soul to be convinced that there is emptiness where only God can fill the void. That has every appearance of a self-indictment that no amount of smearing of benevolent salve can ever adequately cover over for the festering wound that it is. The flow of puss is too apparent to ignore and so easily explain away.

    So, who believes they can effectively explain away her own words into a meaning what they do not say within the confines of the clear language they speak? Is it all allegorical? Is it merely symbolic what she said? Was it only human feelings, and therefore not her speaking to the spiritual depths of her genuine beliefs at the core of her soul? Are we now judges qualified to reinterpret her words, as if we have shoved Christ off His Throne, only to sit there ourselves, duly empowered to render the meaning of Teresa's words into something they don't clearly portray?

    Thoughts?

    Jr
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

    +2,742
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    Unlike you I am not going to make any decisions based on one out-of-context sentence. Even Paul struggled with doubt.
     
  3. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

    +5,277
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    That she says she offers herself to Jesus and accepts his judgment? I can't see anything wrong in that. But continuing on where you left off:

    Mat 25:34 - “Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    Mat 25:35 - ‘for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
     
  4. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +106,706
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    Hmmmmmm.....ok, my thoughts

    Throughout God's Word, God's people struggled with a perceived "abandonment" by God. This includes Job, and David, and even Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God, the God of the living, when He, upon the cross, cried out "My God my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?!" We ALL Struggle with this. Elijah was so depressed that he wanted to die.

    It is no different for Mother Teresa.

    Haven't you ever struggled with this?

    I have.

    I can relate to Psalm 13 and this song that is based on Psalm 13.

     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • List
  5. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

    +4,002
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Republican
    Be careful how you judge, bro. Even Christ Jesus said, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?", from the Cross. You don't know what tests tomorrow might bring.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  6. SwordmanJr

    SwordmanJr Double-edged Sword only

    789
    +252
    Christian
    Private
    Ahh, I think I see what you're getting at....works-based salvation....
     
  7. SwordmanJr

    SwordmanJr Double-edged Sword only

    789
    +252
    Christian
    Private
    Even in the midst of an episode of depression, I never considered the Lord abandoned me, and I certainly would never have said that there is a void in me where God should be.

    So, no, her words do not smack of someone who should be given a special place of honor, by any means, especially when calling for even greater "veneration" of Mary. Nope. Her words, in context, convey a lack of faith. The claims some make about such in relation to OT and NT figures rings hollow compared to what we can read in Teresa's words.

    Jr
     
  8. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

    +5,277
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    What did Jesus say about it?
     
  9. SwordmanJr

    SwordmanJr Double-edged Sword only

    789
    +252
    Christian
    Private
    I was not judging anyone. I quoted the words of someone who has been given a place of honor whose words were not the words of faith as we can read from Paul of Tarsus, who was stoned and left for dead, beaten time after time, and yet continued to lift up the Church wherever he went.

    It's about the words, dude, not judging the person. To assume she's in Heaven is no less a judgement of her than to say she is burning in the pits of Hell. We don't know. Her words seem to indicate that we can't say one way or another with any absolute degree of certainty. Yes, there are those who have already made their judgement about her, but I'm not going to do that one way or the other. Jesus is Lord, and He alone sits on that Throne, which I'm thankful for.

    Jr
     
  10. SwordmanJr

    SwordmanJr Double-edged Sword only

    789
    +252
    Christian
    Private
    Ok, I can see this is going nowhere, so I'll leave you with your opinions. You're free to believe what you wish, as are we all.

    Jr
     
  11. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,598
    Anabaptist
    If and when someone tells me that they don't believe they were ever saved, that they have never felt any joy in salvation, that they have never 'felt' saved, that they have never 'felt' God's Presence at all, and that they don't believe they are saved,
    I don't know what I would say to them other than turn away from sin and
    turn to the Creator, for His Kingdom is at hand.
     
  12. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

    +5,277
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    I see. Another person telling me the bible doesn't mean what it says.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  13. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +106,706
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    Jesus did.

    So have numerous men of God all throughout God's Word.
     
  14. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +106,706
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    You could pray.

    We all have wavering feelings and sometimes depression, where it "feels" that God is far away, and it is at these very discouraging times that we need prayers and encouragement.

    Job comes to mind.

    Can you imagine what he must've been feeling in all that inexplicable suffering, when God (unbeknownst to him) had a REASON for being silent and seemingly abandoned him?
     
  15. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,598
    Anabaptist
    ......
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  16. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,598
    Anabaptist
    .......
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  17. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +106,706
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    As i stated, we ALL get discouraged. Paul emphasized the crucialness of encouragement and prayer for those suffering, as he was familiar with the dungeons of prison, and he frequently asked for exactly that in his letters.

    We are to ENCOURAGE one another and pray for one another.

    This is WHY God ALLOWS us to suffer and to become depressed...and it is to empathize with others who are suffering or depressed or overwhelmed, and to minister to, encourage, and pray for them.
     
  18. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,598
    Anabaptist
    .....
     
  19. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +106,706
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    I was asking about Job. He sought God with tears, anguish and despair, and God was silent. It was for a purpose that Job was unaware of, but Job did not know or understand why.

    Jesus also was suffering so inexplicably that He was sweating as it were great drops of blood. He also cried out from the cross, asking "My God my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?"

    Was Jesus "rejoicing" then?
     
  20. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +106,706
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    Of COURSE it does.

    Peace, Jeff.
     
Loading...